"Source A revealed!" : Secret UN meetings on disclosure

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Please have a look at part two of RU's exposé where they focus on Theilmanns meeting with Maccabee.

Part two

Originally posted by Rotoplooker
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Yes, definitely read part 2: Part Two

It completely refutes the assertion that RT needed top secret clearance to visit Dr. Maccabee.

I did read part two as you both advised, but I advise you two strongly to listen to this interview wherein Bruce Maccabee said very clearly the following .

First of all, I work at a Navy Laboratory, at the time, he visited me, I think it was in April 2008.

In a Navy Laboratory in order to get in you had to have credentials, you had to have clearances, a badge that would allow you to come in, and even if you get in, you might need an escort, if you didn’t have a sufficiently high clearance.

Well Source A came right to my office, without any escort. Which tells me he had the credentials. He gave me a review of all the things he had done over the years.

It … certainly looked real. At the very least, he was able to go right through the security of the laboratory and came right through to my desk. I told him how to get to the office and he did it. [Click here to listen]

And when you [click there to listen] you can hear yourself that what Micheal Salla said [see above] in the first place was absolutly right.

Bruce Maccabee on Source A - April 3-2010.mp3

www.esnips.com...



[edit on 25/5/10 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by Rotoplooker
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Yes, definitely read part 2: Part Two

It completely refutes the assertion that RT needed top secret clearance to visit Dr. Maccabee.

After the initial leak of Source A's identity, the whole story, or lie if you will, hinged on whether or not Theilmann required special clearance to visit Dr. Maccabee. As it turns out, he didn't.

That would be very dependant on where they met. The Dr.'s office would almost certainly be within a classified area (otherwise what would be the point of him having an office?). This being the case, nobody without proper clearance AND need to know would be allowed in there.

I don't know how many of y'all have been in the military, but, it IS military security we are dealing with here. They have their own ways of doing things, thus some understanding of military proc.s is necessary. I was in the AF back in the late 60's, worked with classified equipment, and nobody without proper clearance could have made it to my work area (and it wasn't even top secret).

This is a major "hole" that needs to be cleared up.

Etharzi od Oma.

reply to post by spacevisitor


In part two of the RU exposé Maccabee says

“My recollection is that a visitor badge had a big “V” on the front. I didn’t have that many unclassified visitors over the years so my memory is hazy on this. But my recollection is that he did not have a “V” badge. However, I could be wrong on this. I didn’t pay close attention to all the details of the visit because I didn’t foresee this controversy. I was doing C&S P a “favor” by agreeing to meet “A”. So far as I knew, they had much more information than I had about “A” and his testimony. He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me. However, because of all the “hush hush” activities and the claim by C&S P that he was working for an Admiral, I assumed he had a high level clearance. He never said anything to me that would make me think that he had no clearance level. Had I thought that I was supposed to be thoroughly vetting this person I would have taken notes at the time and I would have written down all the pertinent info on his badge.

At any rate, the truth or falsity of his various claims will be determined by further investigation.

What does this tell you?

[edit on 25-5-2010 by cripmeister]

Last line update says they actually had a phone conversation with RT.

Should clear a few things up in Part #3.

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

In part two of the RU exposé Maccabee says

“My recollection is that a visitor badge had a big “V” on the front. I didn’t have that many unclassified visitors over the years so my memory is hazy on this. But my recollection is that he did not have a “V” badge. However, I could be wrong on this. I didn’t pay close attention to all the details of the visit because I didn’t foresee this controversy. I was doing C&S P a “favor” by agreeing to meet “A”. So far as I knew, they had much more information than I had about “A” and his testimony. He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me. However, because of all the “hush hush” activities and the claim by C&S P that he was working for an Admiral, I assumed he had a high level clearance. He never said anything to me that would make me think that he had no clearance level. Had I thought that I was supposed to be thoroughly vetting this person I would have taken notes at the time and I would have written down all the pertinent info on his badge.

At any rate, the truth or falsity of his various claims will be determined by further investigation.

What does this tell you?

That MP3 interview is from April 3-2010 and what he said in your reply is from not that much later.

So to answer your question regarding what that tells me is this, for a to me unknown reason but I assume for him a very important reason is Bruce Maccabee clearly changing his original story.

reply to post by spacevisitor

Yes. Salla's dog is very busily eating the homework.


[edit on 5/25/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by spacevisitor
So to answer your question regarding what that tells me is this, for a to me unknown reason but I assume for him a very important reason is Bruce Maccabee clearly changing his original story.

or maybe he was asked the right questions by RU

IMO the reason for the visit was to try and build RTs credability, Maccabee was just a pawn in their game.

” The fact that the base has a standard facility access highlights how one does not need any classified security clearances in order to access the base. RU admin Access Denied showed how a retired naval officer, for example, may want to access the base in order to use the Commissary (grocery store) or the Exchange (general store) facilities available to all retired members of the US Navy. Dahlgren has both of these stores on site”

Posing as a retired Navy person, he would have had no trouble at all entering the facility, he did not need “high level clearance”
In addition having an appointment with Dr Maccabee would also have meant easy access
According to this document, You Dont need an escort, you only need to have an appointment with someone on base:

www.navsea.navy.mil...

Thats two different ways he could have gained entry to the base without a high level clearance

Those that want this hoax to be true, are overplaying this facet of the story





[edit on 25-5-2010 by Ashtrei]

reply to post by Ashtrei


While it is true that any military / retired military person could easily gain access to the base. Any appointments with non-cleared persons would necessarily happen in an unclassified area. The good DR's office most certainly isn't unclassified (unless of course he doesn't do any work there). This fact is also being over looked.

During my entire professional career, my office was where I did the bulk of my work, I'm sure it is the same in this case.

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by Ashtrei

 

While it is true that any military / retired military person could easily gain access to the base. Any appointments with non-cleared persons would necessarily happen in an unclassified area. The good DR's office most certainly isn't unclassified (unless of course he doesn't do any work there). This fact is also being over looked.

During my entire professional career, my office was where I did the bulk of my work, I'm sure it is the same in this case.

Check the quote from Maccabee in my post above, the visit was unclassified.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by cripmeister]

If this guy

By Danny Robbins - The Associated Press
Posted : Sunday May 23, 2010 9:53:48 EDT

FORT WORTH, Texas — A Texas man with no military experience tricked the Army into letting him enter a reserve unit as a noncommissioned officer earlier this year, a deception that placed an untrained soldier in a leadership position in a time of war, an Associated Press investigation has found.

The matter, currently under investigation by the Army, means a soldier received a security clearance and was in position to lead troops in combat even though he hadn’t gone through basic training or spent any time in the service.

www.armytimes.com...

Could pull off that stunt, i dont see it as much a stretch that RT could get in to see Dr Maccabee.
From what i can read it sounds as simple as getting past the main gate at Dahlgren and following a map to the Dr's office.

He might tell the guard on the gate he wanted to access the base in order to use the Commissary (grocery store) or the Exchange (general store) facilities available to all retired members of the US Navy. Dahlgren has both of these stores on site.

At which point he had the run of the base.

He may have showed he had an appointment (printed email from Dr Maccabee perhaps ?)
And again been passed thru.
Clearly there are a number of ways he could easily got past the main gate

Compared to the stunt pulled by Jesse Bernard Johnston , it doesnt seem like it was a difficult feat to perform

Originally posted by cripmeister
Check the quote from Maccabee in my post above, the visit was unclassified.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by cripmeister]

I'm fully aware that it was an unclassified visit. That doesn't get him into a secure area! At best that gets him a visit in the confrence room or break room, NOT the DR's office (unless the office is unsecured, which, again, I doubt).

The assumption that was made was, that since he appeared at Dr Maccabee's office door, that RT had "high level clearance"

This statement was made at a time when he was still anonymous "source A"

Since then we have learned that access to that base entailed a security check at the main gate, after which he had unescorted access to the rest of the base.
At no stage have any of the people involved including Dr Maccabee suggested there were any other checkpoints other than the main gate.

Weve since learned that the rank he claims to hold is that of LCDR

and according to my source in the military and i quote

O-4 in the Navy is not considered Field Grade. We don't do that until O-5. ... but that's irrelevant. You're right, he's not such a "High-ranking Officer."

The premise was that to get to Dr Maccabee office he had to be a high ranking officer, the TRUTH is hes NOT





[edit on 26-5-2010 by Ashtrei]

Originally posted by Ashtrei
The assumption that was made was, that since he appeared at Dr Maccabee's office door, that RT had "high level clearance"

This statement was made at a time when he was still anonymous "source A"

Since then we have learned that access to that base entailed a security check at the main gate, after which he had unescorted access to the rest of the base.

Actually, I think this is the assumption. And, it is false! He would have had free access to all unsecured areas of the base, but not to any secured areas.

At no stage have any of the people involved including Dr Maccabee suggested there were any other checkpoints other than the main gate.

This shows a lack of knowledge of military security protocols, although in Maccabee's case probably been around it so long it has become "invisible" to him.

There should have been a checkpoint at the entrance to the building Dr. Maccabee works in, and perhaps others at the entrances of any sub-areas within the building.

In short, there should have been no way for RT to enter Maccabee's building and continue to his office without encountering security, and each checkpoint would have checked his ID, clearence, and other aspects.

Weve since learned that the rank he claims to hold is that of LCDR

and according to my source in the military and i quote

You should ask your source about the kind of security at places like a Weapons Research Lab.

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by spacevisitor
So to answer your question regarding what that tells me is this, for a to me unknown reason but I assume for him a very important reason is Bruce Maccabee clearly changing his original story.

or maybe he was asked the right questions by RU

The manner of questions asked by RU stand loose from what Bruce Maccabee did said clearly in that MP3 on April 3-2010.

You can however try to twist that fact as much as you want, but it is very obvious that for some reason Bruce Maccabee changed his story.

Originally posted by cripmeister
IMO the reason for the visit was to try and build RTs credability, Maccabee was just a pawn in their game.

If that is your opinion then that is entirely up to you, but I don’t buy it.
And then, why do you think that Bruce Maccabee let him himself "use" for being a pawn for them?


[edit on 26/5/10 by spacevisitor]

The real question here in regards to Theilmanns access to the base and Dr Maccabee's office is does that prove he had a "high level security clearance"

We can argue till the cows come home if he had to pass checkpoints or not.
The fact remains the assumption he had a high level security rating was based on his anonymity (no one knew his actual claimed rank) and the fact that he got into the facility.

We now know two things, 1st you didnt need "high level" clearance to get in, and 2nd his alleged rank does not itself consitute "high level" clearance.

So the answer to the question did he have high level clearance can be resolved as a definative NO.

The next question that needs to be answered is just what rank he did have if any, there are a number of clues that are pointing to the fact he may well have had none, whats refered to a Stolen valor case.

He himself told Salla hes looking at being charged with impersonating an officer, and that his military records will expunged, read: they never existed.

its not an uncommon crime ,Most cases involve attempts to get veterans’ benefits or other forms of financial gain. Congress attempted to crack down on military impostors in 2005 by passing a law that makes it a crime to claim false decorations or medals.

of note in this regard is his needing to claim on his ex wifes insurance for an operation Surely, an active duty officer of the United States Navy would not need to be a dependent of their ex-wife just in order to get an operation, they could have the operation as part of their military benefits.

Bruce Maccabee also confirms that Source A “certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit” with him. Bruce confirms that he only assumed he had a high level clearance based on what he was told by the Pickerings

All the evidence points to him not having a high level clearance, and there is also serious doubt as to his having any real rank at all

To the question of his having high level clearance, you need to prove that claim if you adhere to it, access to Bruce's office does not constitute proof of that claim.
Bruce himself confirms that Source A “certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit” with him.

The fact that Theilmann himself is expecting to be arrested for impersonating a military officer should tell you what the TRUTH is likely to be.

He is reported to be "incensed" that Micheal Salla published that admission

Originally posted by Ashtrei
The real question here in regards to Theilmanns access to the base and Dr Maccabee's office is does that prove he had a "high level security clearance"

Perhaps, but it does illustrate that he had something that got him past security.

We can argue till the cows come home if he had to pass checkpoints or not.

If you have ever had to deal with that kind of security there would be no argument.

The fact remains the assumption he had a high level security rating was based on his anonymity (no one knew his actual claimed rank) and the fact that he got into the facility.

We now know two things, 1st you didnt need "high level" clearance to get in, and 2nd his alleged rank does not itself consitute "high level" clearance.

It is true, he didn't need to have any clearance to gain access to the base, thats not an issue, nor is his rank an issue since, as you say, it doesn't automatically convey clearance.

So the answer to the question did he have high level clearance can be resolved as a definative NO.

There is no resolution here. Some seem to be ignoring the face that RT walked, unescorted, to Mccabee's office. In my career I have had a few positions that required a security clearance. Some were for defence contractors, others were directly for the DOD, and in ALL instances suffecient security clearance WAS required to gain access to my office.

of note in this regard is his needing to claim on his ex wifes insurance for an operation Surely, an active duty officer of the United States Navy would not need to be a dependent of their ex-wife just in order to get an operation, they could have the operation as part of their military benefits.

Now this is another issue. As a vet he had no need of any medical coverage at all. The VA would have handled everything, even his need to see a "civilian" doctor or medical center. This part I don't get, but until we see some documentation as evidence, it will remain a bit of a mystery.

Bruce Maccabee also confirms that Source A “certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit” with him. Bruce confirms that he only assumed he had a high level clearance based on what he was told by the Pickerings

Again, this is true, yet, Bruce also states that RT arrived at his office un escorted. So, knowing those security protocols as I do I have to presume that RT either had good fake documents, and a "planted" entry in a database somewhere, or that he did, indeed, have the required security clearance.

All the evidence points to him not having a high level clearance, and there is also serious doubt as to his having any real rank at all

To the question of his having high level clearance, you need to prove that claim if you adhere to it, access to Bruce's office does not constitute proof of that claim.

You are aware, that this is not even remotely possible. Those records are themselves protected by a security classification and "need to know". Its a military thing.

Bruce himself confirms that Source A “certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit” with him.

Again, while true, an "unclassified visit" doesn't usually allow access to secured areas.

Hopefully, in the end the truth will become known.

Etharzi od Oma

I think you are being deliberatly obtuse.

Dr Maccabees orgiginal statement said he "might" need an escort.
not "would" need one
he later clarifys this
Dr. Maccabee responded to Ryan later that day and was much more specific with his answers
“He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me

Any military officer, active or reserve or retired (yes even retirees still get issued up to date military ID cards) can enter the base. No high level clearances are required.

Michael Salla also refers to the actual rank involved in a recent post at the RU blog

Theilmann arrives at the Naval Warfare Center Guard gate in full dress uniform showing his rank (LtCmdr)

LtCmdr is NOT high level clearance.

To the question "did source A have a high level clearance" the answer is resolved as a resounding NO

After I noticed that this thread is already put into the hoax forum I deleted therefore my post.


[edit on 26/5/10 by spacevisitor]

which he more recently ammended to

“He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me "

Thats straight from the horses mouth so to speak

Michael Salla states hes a LtCmdr

and from the military times website

For the record, an O-4 in the Navy is not considered Field Grade. We don't do that until O-5. ... but that's irrelevant. You're right, he's not such a "High-ranking Officer"

Ergo hes not a high ranking officer, and would therefore not have a high level clearance

No one has shown me any evidence to either of the legal standards (beyond a shadow of a doubt, or reasonable doubt) that gives merit to the claim he had High level security clearance




[edit on 26-5-2010 by Ashtrei]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Ashtrei]