I DON'T CARE about HOW 9/11 happened, I CARE about WHO did it!!!

I find it interesting how almost everyone prefers to focus on HOW the twin towers etc. came down, rather than on WHO did it. It doesn't matter HOW it happened, as either way, it happened. Nevertheless, everyone is constantly arguing about HOW it happened. WHO CARES!

The POINT is NOT HOW it happened, but rather WHO was involved with the attacks. So please END your arguments about HOW it happened, and please start focusing on WHO did it. No one can ever prove exactly HOW it happened.

It doesn't matter now if the plane melted the steel, which collapsed the buildings, or if it was all deliberately prepared by those involved with the attacks (aka the government). What matters is how can you prove that the government really did it? Is the manner of the collapse of the towers the only reason?

Look at WHO was involved. How the Mossad was involved, and of course the US government themselves - the Zionist puppets. Take a closer look and see how connections made 9/11 occur, no matter HOW the towers collapsed.

In other words, If I throw an ice cream in your face without you noticing who did it, do you prefer to understand how the ice cream hit you in the face, or do you prefer to find out WHO threw it at you?

Only the governments decided to immediately accuse certain countries, including Afghanistan and Iraq. For both countries there is no proof that they were ever involved in the 9/11 attacks. There is only proof of Saudia Arabian terrorists, but who would dare to attack Saudi Arabia for what they did?

People are probably trying to figure out HOW, because that's potentially the best way of figuring out WHO.

Uhhhhhh! Most of the WHOs died when the planes went splat.

Originally posted by MightyAl


The POINT is NOT HOW it happened, but rather WHO was involved with the attacks. So please END your arguments about HOW it happened, and please start focusing on WHO did it. No one can ever prove exactly HOW it happened.

If you believe that it's possible that airplanes and fire caused the collapse of the wtc towers then you generally believe that it's possible that al quida was responsible for the attacks as they have claimed.

If you believe that it's impossible that airplanes and fire caused the collapse of the wtc towers then you generally believe that it was the goverment, a secret very powerfull club (like the NWO), Israel, the CIA, or some other top secret super high tech group of people.

So the WHO and the HOW are linked (as well as the WHAT, WHEN, WHERE and WHY).

The reason these conspiracy people are so adamant about finding out the HOW, is because they think it'll help them find a way to blame the particular WHO they have an agenda to blame this on, be it the Jews, the military industrial complex, the CIA, a secret cult of Satan worshipping numerologists, or whatever.

TPTB lied about how they came down in many peoples' minds. That's why so many people are obsessed with finding out how it happened.

reply to post by iamcpc


Not necessarily. I believe the towers came down from the planes and fires (I am open to having my mind changed, but so far it has not happened), but I also believe that AQ was in league with the CIA. I think the government knew it was coming and looked the other way; on some days, I am convinced the hijackers were trained by the government

reply to post by MightyAl


And even furthermore, why the specific targets ?

What people fail to realize is that 9/11 was in actuality a huge coverup of the destruction of government securities used to finance the collapse of the Soviet Union and other financial crimes which at the time were being investigated by the Office of Naval Intelligence whose offices in the Pentagon were destroyed on September 11th.


There is an interesting book called :

Collateral Damage : U.S. Covert Operations and the Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001

Which discusses the WHY behind 9/11.

It is very difficult to say exactly WHO are the culprits.

The first step to figuring out who, is by finding out how.

We know that some form of explosives, most likely nano-thermite, was used in the destruction of the towers. So we need to ask ourselves, do terrorists have the ability to produce nano thermite and then in turn place it into the towers with military precision?

No.

That means that terrorists are not the SOLE party involved here, if at all.

Next we ask who the higher power is that aided the terrorists or created this mess themselves. CIA, MOSSAD, and special military black ops are those that could have been involved.

To figure out which of the 3 above (if any) are involved we next need to follow the money trail. We know that tens of millions went missing days or weeks before 9-11. Who received the money? Only by auditing the federal reserve would we be able to see, however, I am sure that they would fudge the numbers to hide such black operations.

We need to find out who got the money.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
Not necessarily. I believe the towers came down from the planes and fires (I am open to having my mind changed, but so far it has not happened), but I also believe that AQ was in league with the CIA. I think the government knew it was coming and looked the other way; on some days, I am convinced the hijackers were trained by the government

Now you see, there you go. If these people want to believe in these secret conspiracies, that's one thing, but why do they absolutely have to go around rewriting and embellishing everything they touch? Invisible controlled demolitions? Hordes of disinformation agents planted throughout all walks of life? Coverups of cruise missiles hitting the Pentagon? Faked crash sites in Pennsylvania? Jeez Louise, these people read too many comic books.

Why can't the WTC have really come down from the plane inpacts and the fires, AND that there was a conspiracy to instigate a false flag operation? Yeah, people are saying that JFK was murdered by a conspiracy too, but they're at least agreeing he was shot. They're not making up crap about how someone ran up to him and beat him with a baseball bat and all the video, photographs, and eyewitnesses were staged to trick people into thinking he was shot.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by iamcpc

 

Not necessarily. I believe the towers came down from the planes and fires (I am open to having my mind changed, but so far it has not happened), but I also believe that AQ was in league with the CIA. I think the government knew it was coming and looked the other way; on some days, I am convinced the hijackers were trained by the government

That's why I used the term generally to try to indicate that there are people who's views don't fall into any category. Like your view. Half truther half debunker.

If you figure out how it was done, then you can figure who had motive to do so.

Unfortunately the old system of logic this is, doesn't work well to solving problems. Seems only to make things whorse.

If you figure out who let me know.

reply to post by MightyAl


With any good investigation you must figure out how something happened before you move on to the who.

If planes were responsible for the complete destruction then the terroist theory is plausible.

If explosives were used then Houston we have a problem.

Lets say we just forget the how and just jump to the who. You can't really accuse someone of doing something if you don't know how they did it. Discovering the how is how you get your evidence.

Evidence is needed to accuse the who of doing something.

Originally posted by Miracle Man
reply to post by MightyAl

 

With any good investigation you must figure out how something happened before you move on to the who.

I agree. If you watch murder investigation shows they find evidence and investigate the crime scene and all that good stuff before they have a suspect.

That is exactly correct.

Simply by following the Money, such as the higher than average number of PUT options on United Airlines Stock, we can see that some were privy to what was about to and when it was to occur. As well as there being more to it than what we are being told concerning the 19 Muslim Terrorists and Osama Bin Laden orchestrating the whole thing while sitting in his cave with his cell phone !


Cell phones wouldn't even work in a cave !


Anyone here read

Collateral Damage : US Covert Operations and the Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001

?

Originally posted by MightyAl
I DON'T CARE about HOW 9/11 happened,

I cannot understand in any way that you don’t care about how 9/11 happened, because the way it did happened was no doubt and still is for countless years an unbelievable tragedy for all people involved?

Originally posted by MightyAl
I CARE about WHO did it!!!

If you care about who did it, I assume then, that you don’t believe the government's explanation for who they said who did it.


But when you want to know who did it other than the government said who did it, there is another and even more extremely important question to that all.

And that is "why they did it"?

Originally posted by MightyAl
The POINT is NOT HOW it happened, but rather WHO was involved with the attacks.

I clicked on this thread when I saw the title because I have been very concerned that the 9/11 truth movement is embroiling itself in an impossible scientific debate about technologies.

I feel that the important thing is to establish in the mainstream that the attack was staged by the controllers who run this world behind the scenes in order to further a New World Order agenda, which includes the elimination of civil liberties, as evidenced by the Patriot Act, etc. To me, this is what is essential: that the public understands not to be fooled by the phony "war on terror."

There is a website that has the best approach I have ever seen to clearly delineating why we know that 9/11 was an inside job. Here is the flyer that they offer:

The Independent Thinker’s 9/11 FACT SHEET

What occurred on September 11th, 2001 is a matter of facts, physics and unprecedented violations of national protocol by American officials themselves. Here are 10 points to consider. There are hundreds more.

1. No steel-framed building before or since 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire.
2. No official agency (FAA, FBI, or the airlines) has ever released a list of the 9/11 passengers. But within hours, the FBI released a list of the hijackers.
3. On September 11th, 2001 the FAA successfully grounded all aircraft-–an unprecedented operation. Yet it could not successfully scramble any jet fighters that day-–a normal procedure occurring over 100 times a year.
4. Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper and part of the World Trade Center complex, was not struck by a plane but collapsed in 6.5 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on September 11th, in the exact manner of a controlled demolition.
5. There was no visible airplane debris where Flight 93 supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania---only a smoking hole in the ground, much like a bomb crater.
6. Office fires burn at low temperatures of 600-800 dF. Steel melts at 2750 dF. Jet fuel is an ordinary hydrocarbon; its maximal burning temperature is 1200 dF in open air. Neither jet fuel nor the burning contents of the buildings could have caused the towers’ steel structure to buckle or fail.
7. Tests have shown that cell-phone calls cannot be made at altitudes over 4000 to 8000 feet, as cell towers are located on the ground. Commercial airplanes fly at 30,000 feet and above. No passenger could have successfully placed a call for help by cell phone from an airborne plane on 9/11, as reported.
8. 9/11 was immediately declared an “act of war” by President Bush. The rubble from Ground Zero was carted away and the steel sold off without examination.
9. Enormous profits were made by insiders on plummeting stock prices of the two airlines involved in 9/11-–American and United. Federal law protects their identities.
10. Accepting victims’ compensation barred 9/11 families from further discovery through litigation.

To download and print copies of this list, visit 911WeKnow.com. Pass around and engage in discussion

[edit on 5/17/2010 by Mary Rose]

[edit on 5/17/2010 by Mary Rose]

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I definitely care about who did 911. It made it undeniably clear that we are all within the deadly reach of radical islamic terrorism. I feel sorry for the inside-job theorists. After that attack you should know damned well what radical islamic terrorism is.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by MightyAl
The POINT is NOT HOW it happened, but rather WHO was involved with the attacks.

1. No steel-framed building before or since 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire.

I had to stop right here.

What about the kader toy factory fire. A steel framed building which collapsed only from fire.

Building One collapsed completely at approximately
5:14 p.m. Fanned by strong winds blowing toward
the north, the blaze spread quickly into Buildings
Two and Three before the fire brigade could
effectively defend them. Building Two reportedly
collapsed at 5:30 p.m. and Building Three at 6:05
p.m.

What about:

On the morning of January 28, 1997, in the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania township of Strasburg, a fire caused the collapse of the state-of-the-art, seven year old Sight and Sound Theater and resulted in structural damage to most of the connecting buildings. The theater was a total loss, valued at over $15 million.

What about:

The Wolftrap Farm Theater and Pavilion fire in Fairfax County Virginia in 1988 suffered a total loss in the stage, props, dressing rooms and storage area. The pre-construction recommendation for a fire sprinkler system had not been heeded. When the facility was rebuilt, it was totally sprinkled.

What about:

The McCormick Place exhibition hall fire in Chicago, Illinois in 1967 was a public assembly occupancy built with fire protected steel construction and no sprinkler system. “Fortunately the fire started in the early morning hours; the possibility of life loss would have been staggering had the fire occurred during the day”.1 This fast burning, high rate of heat production fire caused complete collapse of the building.

What about:

Kyriakos Papaioannoa, 1986.4 These fires began at 3 a.m. on Dec. 19, 1980, with arson being suspected as the cause. The Katrantzos Sport Department Store was an 8-story reinforced concrete building. Its fire started at the 7th floor and rapidly spread throughout the building, due to lack of vertical or horizontal compartmentation and the absence of sprinklers. Collected evidence indicated that the fire temperatures reached 1000°C over the 2- to 3-hour fire duration, and the firefighters concentrated on containing the fire spread to the adjacent buildings. Upon termination of these fires, it was discovered that a major part of the 5th to 8th floors had collapsed. Various other floor and column failures throughout the Katrantzos Building were also observed (see Figure 1). The cause of these failures was considered to be restraint of the differential thermal expansion of the structure that overloaded its specific elements or connections.

What about:

On May 21, 1987, Sao Paulo had one of the biggest fires in Brazil, which precipitated a substantial partial collapse of the central core of the tall CESP Building 2.5 This was a 21-story office building, headquarters of the Sao Paulo Power Company (CESP), after whom the building was named. Buildings 1 and 2 of this office complex were both of reinforced concrete framing, with ribbed slab floors. These two buildings had several unique internal features and contents. Both buildings still retained their original wood forms used for pouring the concrete floor slabs, which were never removed. Low-height plywood partition walls were also used in the interiors. Approximately two hours after the beginning of the fire in CESP 2, its structural core area throughout the full building height collapsed. This collapse was attributed to the thermal expansion of the horizontal concrete T-beam frames under the elevated fire temperatures, which led to the fracture of the vertical framing elements and their connections in the middle of the building, and the consequent progressive loss of gravity load-carrying capacity

What about:

A fire-initiated full collapse of a textile factory occurred in Alexandria, Egypt, on July 19, 2000.6 This 6-story building was built of reinforced concrete, and its fire started at about 9 a.m. in the storage room at the ground floor. Fire extinguishers were nonfunctional, and the fire spread quickly before the firefighters could arrive. An electrical short-circuit accelerated the fire spread. At about 6 p.m., nine hours after the start of the fire, when the blaze seemingly was under control and subsiding, the building suddenly collapsed, killing 27 people. Figure 3 shows a photograph of this collapse.


Keep in mind that none of these buildings were hit by 500 mile per hour 110-150 ton airplanes. Feel free to research them yourself instead of being spoon fed misinformation and blindly accepting other's claims as truth.




Don't use websites like 911theories.com or debunking911.com or other truther or debunker sites as a source EVER. Too many of them are filled with quotes taken out of context or biased information (some have outright lies or 100% non expert opinion). The best sites will always site their sources which will link to a site (or book) that has nothing to do with truthing or debunking 9/11 theories and you can read the article or publication that the quote was taken from.

Try to find sources and quotes are directly from the horses mouth. Don't let person A spoon feed you what person B thinks. Find out what person B thinks from person B. I'm sure most of you have played the game telephone when you were younger. The more people information travels through the less accurate it is likely to become.


As best as my research of nonbiased sites and articles can tell the statement:

"No steel-framed building before or since 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire."

is either due to gross ignorance or due to malicious deceit or a combintation of the two.





[edit on 17-5-2010 by iamcpc]

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by MightyAl
The POINT is NOT HOW it happened, but rather WHO was involved with the attacks.

2. No official agency (FAA, FBI, or the airlines) has ever released a list of the 9/11 passengers. But within hours, the FBI released a list of the hijackers.

[edit on 5/17/2010 by Mary Rose]

[edit on 5/17/2010 by Mary Rose]

[edit on 5/17/2010 by Mary Rose]

[edit on 5/17/2010 by Mary Rose]

A quick google search and I was able to find numerous articles of the release of the passingers and passinger manifest. Alas they were all years old and I was a working link to a hard copy of the manifest that was not on a truther or a debunker website.


[edit on 17-5-2010 by iamcpc]