The God and Goddess, Father and Mother, and the Conspiracy to keep us from Knowing

Originally posted by Wise Man

Don't bother trying to argue with me, I know the scripture better than anyone on this little site.

You may well know the scriptures better than anyone on this 'little site' ... that doesn't mean the scriptures are right though, now does it ?

That's quite some ego you have there my friend ... God must be so proud of his/her/it's creation. *shakes head.

Woody

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Wise Man
Don't bother trying to argue with me, I know the scripture better than anyone on this little

site.

Do you have any theories on whether the "woman in heaven" in Revelation ch12 represents

the Virgin Mary?
I'm posting a thread on that lady on Sunday, which offers a different take on this theme.

The woman in heaven Rev 12 is talking about is Israel, the people. That prophecy started in the year 1502 and is almost finished in this day.
Now my view on who the real Israel and Edom is today would be much different than yours (telling by your name) so I'll just leave it at that.

I don't consider the people in Israel today actual Israelites but rather converts.
en.metapedia.org...

Also Mary wasn't a virgin when she gave birth to Christ, thats Roman Catholic pagan stuff, thats another stumbling block a lot of people don't understand. The worship of the Virgin Mary started in 431 A.D with the Catholic Church shoving paganism philosophy "Queen of Heaven".
You have to go through the word there for Virgin in the Greek also, it's not the same meaning of Virgin we have in English today.

You can search the scriptures where they tell you over and over Christ came from the seed of David.
Now we all know the bloodlines in the Bible only deal with men, the fathers, because thats where the seed comes from. The Tribal linage goes through the Fathers only.

Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Luk 2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; because he was of the house and lineage of David
To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

Jhn 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

If I remember correctly there's a scripture talking about Joseph going into Mary but I'm too lazy to find it at the moment.

Theres a good book called "Fossilized Customs" that has good info and time line dates on when exactly all the Catholic pagan crap got thrown into the philosophy(interpreted by pagan morons).

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Wise Man]

Originally posted by woodwytch

You may well know the scriptures better than anyone on this 'little site' ... that doesn't mean the scriptures are right though, now does it ?

That's quite some ego you have there my friend ... God must be so proud of his/her/it's creation. *shakes head.

Woody

Of course the scripture is right. scoff much?

Some Witch you are...

Even the top witches today (Illuminati, Masons, Vatican [snip].) deal with the Bible, those people know that they are Esau, Edomites.
Every top Hollywood directer knows the Bible, its like a requirement.

Theres a reason your top elites are concerned their bloodline Esau / Edom, they know Esau is the progenitor of the Caucasian race.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9070a288d265.jpg[/atsimg]

If your a witch and you don't know who Esau / Edom is and their significance today, then your small time.

Go brush up on your Witchcraft you are way behind.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Wise Man]
Mod edit: removed offensive word.

[edit on 20/5/2010 by ArMaP]

Originally posted by Wise Man
Now my view on who the real Israel and Edom is today would be much different than yours (telling by your name) so I'll just leave it at that.

Thank you for your comments.
Incidentally, you seem to be jumping to the conclusion that I'm Jewish. I'm not. I named myself after a famous politician because I like his politics (I could have chosen "Churchill", but that seemed a little grandiose).

reply to post by Wise Man


Nice try there dear boy ... it would take more than a half-assed attempt at an insult from someone with such narrow vision, to get a rise out of me ... you obviously know nothing of the Traditional Solitary Path (that's only to be expected) ... but your post does confirm the point I made previously about you ego. Good for you.

Woody

reply to post by BearTruth


Thank you. At least one person agrees with me on this. Mother Earth is about ruined, and beyond fixing.

reply to post by Wise Man


I didn't make anything up, all was thoroughly researched, a thing Christians refuse to do. Check this out:

Astoreth, a Phoenecian fertility goddess, was worshipped from around 1200 BC until 200 BC. Her name was synonymous with Astarte, and her cult centers were throughout the Palestine coastal region including Jerusalem.

Astoreth was equated with the Syrian goddess Astarte, both being modeled on the Mesopotamian Ishtar. She was thought of as love and war goddess, and usually depicted as wearing a horned headdress. Biblical references to her include 1 Kings 11:5 and 2 Kings 23:13. Solomon is said to have built a temple for her near Jerusalem.

en.wikipedia.org...:Goddesses_by_culture

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by Wise Man
Don't bother trying to argue with me, I know the scripture better than anyone on this little site.

WM, your statement reveals a distasteful arrogance that does not accurately reflect a Spirit filled life.

Sounds like a cop out to this writer. Also a pretty big ego you have there, too. Did you get that from reading the scripture? And which scripture would that be, anyway? I find it hilarious that someone will take a modern version of a collection of ancient stories and myths and swear it is the true word of God. I read the Bible too, but I didn't stop there.

reply to post by Wise Man


Tisk Tisk. Wiseman. Why do you go these limitis to continue critize with people who don't believe in your beliefes. Would you shake hands with a White person?

Im going to post from Wiki...but if anyone has a issue with what it says...just research it for yourself.

Asherah is particularly important in the Judeo-Christian tradition, where she is portrayed as a pagan deity whose images and sacred pillars must be rejected and destroyed. However, there is evidence that in the early history of Israel, she may have been seen not only as the consort of El but also as the wife of the Israelite God Yahweh. El was recognized by the Canaanites as the supreme deity and by the Israelites as synonymous with Yahweh (Dever 2005).

In a 1975 excavation at Kuntillet 'Ajrud (Horvat Teman) in the Sinai Desert, a pottery ostracon was inscribed "Berakhti et’khem l’YHVH Shomron ul’Asherato" ("I have blessed you by Yahweh of Samaria and [his] Asherah"). Beneath the words are drawings of a tree and of a cow with a calf. Nearby is a drawing of a "tree of life" flanked by two ibexes. A second reference to "YHVH and [his] Asherah" was identified in an inscription on a building wall. An similar reference has been found at Khirbet el-Qom, near Hebron, where an inscription reads "Blessed be Uriyahu by Yahweh and by his Asherah; from his enemies he saved him!" However, scholars are divided over how significant Asherah was in Canaanite and Israelite culture. Although she clearly had her own ancient identity, just as did El, she seems to have been gradually eclipsed, just as El merged with Yahweh in Israelite culture and was replaced in importance by Baal in Canaanite culture. Goddesses such as Astarte and Anat eventually overshadowed Asherah, as time went on.

What I see happening here is a history that gets sifted out to fit the ways of a certain group that needed to refine what their belief was gong to consist of. We obviously can see with the word 'El' the history of Canaan and these people and their idea of God...and we obviously see Egypt's influence with rituals and bloodlines being important....as well as later, we see Babylons influence also in the writings of the later OT.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


It could be argued that Asherah, aka the Queen of Heaven, has lived on into Christianity as Mary. She even has the same title "Queen of Heaven".
The funny thing is there is no Biblical basis for it or for the idea of interceding celestials, angels or saints.

This is the same mistake that some Jews in ancient Israel made, praying to Asherah and thinking she will intercede. Biblically there is no need for intercession between humanity and G-d.

For some reason the group feels the need to seek intercession. This could be due to tradition. Consider that Abraham came from Mesopotamia, arrived in Canaan and his descendants later lived in Egypt. The people often get influenced by the cultures where they lived. The same thing appears later as Persia conquers the Middle East. Persian and Mithraic beliefs have had a major influence on Christianity.

This happens with every religion. The Buddhists being influenced by Chinese and Tibetan myth. Vedic myth transformed by the Vedanta into Hinduism. Neo-Pagan beliefs highly influenced by New Age and Theosophical beliefs, which in turn were influenced by Hindu and Buddhist ideas.

Religion is constantly changing, adapting, mutating and evolving. This struggle between order and chaos can be seen in the Bible as G-d and the prophets are on one side preserving tradition, but there are always golden calves and jezebels causing chaos.

Its not just isolated to the Abrahamic faiths. The same struggle goes on in the Dharmic faiths and the Taoic faiths, producing hundreds of schools of thought, schisms, and even bloodshed.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Great points there mikeboy

I agree...religions are always changing, merging, and evolving.

But ya know, I think there is a path that is not really changing nor has had much changing, and that is a path that seeks the Spirit of life. It doesnt involve names, particular lands, rules such as rituals or special days, threats, end day worries, prophecies, or a book. The path of seeking the spirit of life seems to be a personal spiritual path of seeking and takes on many facets to each person offering personal understanding. I think this is the path that a mature seeker ends up on....but the seeker often uses many religions prior to finding this personal path....and they find it by sifting out all the Earthly things from each religion.

A personal ritual on this path could be just making sure you see the rising sun of the morn....or making sure you smile at a stranger every day, making better eye contact with your other selves, what ever the understanding you receive shows you is important for the world and the human species as well as other species.

I think in another couple thousand years, we will see the religions sift away from us, but still be offered through the books as ways to seek out within personal individual path for ones self. We are seeing many doing this today....but religions today are still holding very strong, mainly due to expected prophecies and waiting on a world to be saved I think. Buddhism may remain strong over some of the others. But it has became pretty modernized.




[edit on 20-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]

This is all fascinating, and I have been looking in to and wondering about the female aspects of God throughout history. I started a thread about an interesting site I found that supposedly made connections to all major religions through this supposed "Mother Goddess" worship. While I highly doubt that the conclusion reached by her is right, the thread has introduced some interesting ideas and concepts

www.abovetopsecret.com...

NamelessMonster, I read your post, fascinating, and really good research. I have let this thread go for a few days, I kinda figured the Christian crowd would come and try to spread their message, complete with biblical quotes and their dogmatic knowledge that has been pounded into their heads for all these many years. That being said, I have decided to reveal what the original design of this thread is, the true inner God/Goddess that resides within each and every one of us. The Gods of history are not Gods and all, they are beings, some human, some not, but they are not Divine, nor are they Holy.

First some history and background, this is not something I made up to get attention, nor is it propaganda, and I am certainly not a false prophet.

I studied the Occult Sciences for many years. I performed many High Magick rituals, and through these, I saw and experienced many things unknown to the common man. During one of these, the true inner God and inner Goddess was revealed to me. His/Her name is Mon. Simple name for a simple concept. When I saw them, they were magnificent to behold, they glowed like gold and emitted a great deal of positive energy. They were tall, perhaps 7 feet, and they were male and female, but exact twins. they really looked just alike, but close inspection showed minor differences that made them male and female. Both had wings, probably where mankind got the original ideas for Angels. Both were snow white, and glowed with a golden light that was almost blinding to look upon. They showed me how to defeat and bring under control my inner demons, we all have them, and showed me that they are very real, and not imaginary creatures like Jesus or Allah.
I call on them often, for healing power, for knowledge, and for good health. Mon is like a friend that lives within, not out there someplace.

Now I know the Christians will jump all over this, and tell me this is actually a demon/satan/devil or anything but what I said it was. Am I a God? Why yes, I am, my wife is a Goddess, as are all women. Look at the genetic code of all human being, Each has an X, and a Y chromosome. Male and Female. You cannot deny that we are all male and female.
Further, the Spirit within is real, as real as the nose on your face. The made up Gods wish you to come on bended knees and ask for the "Holy Spirit," and one must promise to give over control of their "soul" to this being, even threatened that if you do not do this, another made up God/Angel/Satan/Devil/Lucifer will come and steal it from you. Also, you will be sent to a place of burning sulfur and heat 7 times hotter than the Sun itself for all eternity. This sounds like a perfect recipe for full control, and for the killing of the inner God/Goddess, and for a few to gather all of the power of worship energy, and use it for a sinister agenda

Thanks for listening.

Originally posted by Wise Man
"Mother nature" goes back to woman worship and Miriam Queen of Heaven and all the versions of her which God hates.

and so your dad hates your mom?
you hate the mother of your children?
(assuming you have both)

or do you reject the model of your god and do NOT as your god does?

don't be so misogynistic in your spiritual thinking.
it makes for severe imbalances and poor health.

really.

Originally posted by Wise Man
Don't bother trying to argue with me, I know the scripture better than anyone on this little site.

no, you don't.
i guarantee it.

i do have some questions for you, though, so you can show me a little of what you know:

1. who is destined for destruction in Revelation chapter 11, and for what reason?
   
2. what are "paps" as mentioned in the first chapter of Revelation?
   
3. did Jesus breast-feed or use the bottle?
   
4. what does GOD mean when he says this, in Hosea 2? "And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali."
   

thanks

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by BearTruth

 

Thank you. At least one person agrees with me on this. Mother Earth is about ruined, and beyond fixing.

she's wounded, no doubt.

but she's going to be okay
she's stronger than any of us ever knew.
and she loves us

that's what keeps her going, just like all mom's
love for her children.

My only reference to wiseman will be to acknowledge the one truth he said,"Don't bother trying to argue with me" once i find out people are closed minded on a topic i do my best to not even respond to them again as they dont want to discuss only to preach their view. nothing anyone one can say would change their mind so why try. you cant point out where they are wrong because in their mind they are not and have an answer of some sort to prove it to themselves. in a forum like this even trying to talk with someone like that is the same as feeding trolls. after 3 pages they have made their position clear, i say we continue on with the original post and leave the poor misunderstood, only true believer in the truth alone.

with that said and out of the way, i do not believe there is anything we can do to our planet that she can not recover from. We are more than capable of wiping ourselves out, but everything we can see shows us that we havnt been here very long, and that our planet has been through multiple events that wiped out most of the life on her and if we were there at the time probably would of finished us also.

to me the OP sounds at least as plausible if not more so than any written record left behind for us. there are too many unknowns with old written records in my opinion. if it was from a society where most of the populace had access to the knowledge of how to read and write and if they had easy access to the materials, some of what we found may only be their entertainment. if its the other way with only the "correct" people have access to learning the writing is probably some sort of propaganda or or the victors writing down their version of history. that doesnt mean we should learn from the writing, study and take what we can. but we can not know for sure because we were not there. thats not even getting into translation issues even if the language is 100% known, let alone unknown dialect or writing styles etc.

Most of the original post rings true with what i believe. but they are just that, my beliefs. i can freely admit i may be wrong. i would not be overly surprised to find any one of the crazy stories or theories here on human creation to be true. in this crazy world grandmothers kill their own grandchildren, fathers try to kill as many people as they can just because they dont like their beliefs. so maybe the vengeful, wrathful god who wants to torture me forever may exist. i will deal with that when its time tho if it is true. the "what if its true" reasoning never did anything for me. i needed proofs. because what if its the other way around? whatever the "it" might be.

male and female is also another very strange area almost as much so as religions are in my opinion. not all life needs males and females to reproduce, then there are some where they can actualy change their sex. to me anyone who pushes a view of one sex/race/beliefe/etc is better than another is pushing their own agenda. it may be they are afraid of what they are calling the bad one, or it could be that humans tend to be control freaks, need to have things their way and remove everything else. or enslave and use it. which also leads back to what we are doing to our planet.

a poster earlier mentioned something along the lines of as our government grows it allows unstable warmongerers and such raise to power. i believe thats our human history. those who are willing to kill and enslave are who create nations, or take them over etc. its barley been 150 years since slavery was made illegal in the states and not even 100 years since women were allowed to vote. and things are still not equal in many many ways. whatever excuse or reason behind that was worse the farther back you go and will show up in whatever writing you may find. ok i think im realy starting to ramble now so ill wrap it up.

i like most of the discussion in this thread and have found new things to read up on, i hope it can continue.

reply to post by pro-all

I am not so sure but Autowrench may not be referring to the god of the bible. You may want to point us to where a goddess is mentioned in that "holy" book.

Diana of the
Ephesians (Acts 19:35)
Ephesian moon and nature Goddess,
("Divine/Brilliant").

There is Mary Magdalene the "Goddess in the Gospels" the Church refused to acknowledge as the wife of Yeshua and probably co-Messiah. "Mary" is a Greek pronunciation of the Hebrew name Miriam or Miriamne. There are many theories about this name, such as Mary might not even be a name, but a title meaning Priestess of Goddess.

We must also look in the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible, and consider the Goddess Sophia. Her name means "Wisdom." She is the Goddess of Wisdom referred to repeatedly in scripture as the wife of God-the-Father. See Proverbs, Song of Songs, (also called Song of Solomon) in the Hebrew Bible, and see the Book of Sirach and the Book of Wisdom in the Apocrypha found in the center of any Catholic Bible.

Even more intriguing....The Hebrew word used for "God" in Genesis is Elohim, the plural of Eloah, a Feminine title for the Goddess. Eloah (sometimes spelled Elat) is the female "half" of El. This Hebrew Goddess in Genesis is Asherah, the Shekinah, the Lady, speaking with Her mate.

reply to post by Wise Man


And you call yourself a wise man. That is a laugh, friend. I would bet I know the KJ Bible a lot better than you do. Read some of my posts, if you doubt me.

Anyone worth a damn knows the Bible is the one and only. It's prophecy is perfect.

So I take it the only people who are "worth a damn" by your simple and childish logic is those who believe a book of myths and fables? You sound like a few other so called men of God that attack me at every opportunity with endless lines of bible quotations.

btw you have no clue about anything in the Bible, you don`t know how the cannons were put together, who wrote them and you never even read the book. Your the one that needs to research.

So, then, I challenge you here. Please, show us all your vast knowledge on these matters. Evidently you are one who thinks God talks to him. Please, enlighten us.

God is a man, so he must have a wife Goddess? Do you want to add the Tooth Fairy and Santa in with this bedtime story?

No, I did not make this up, it was posted on the MSNBC website, written by an Oxford University scholar:

"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife." Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess. Asherah's connection to Yahweh, according to Stavrakopoulou, is spelled out in both the Bible and an 8th-century B.C. inscription on pottery found in the Sinai desert at a site called Kuntillet Ajrud.

source

OK, please show us your intelligence, instead of your ignorance in these matters. You Christians do this all the time, spout off on things you know nothing about. You carry a bible with you, but never read it, and say the "Holy spirit" "interprets" it for you. And you say I'm crazy? Look in the mirror, friend. I will be happy to debate you. Better read up some, and I don't mean just the bible either.