7-Year-Old Girl Shot and Killed During Police Search of Detroit Home

Originally posted by lilstu21
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Barging in guns blazing is totally not what the cops (or SWAT) should be doing, as they could accidently kill the murderer or/and other (innocent) people.

it's not about procedures, it's about using a little something called COMMON SENSE!!

You obviously didn't even bother to read the article that the OP posted. They didn't barge in shooting buddy. They flash banged the house, busted the door down, announced who they were, and then the mother got into a physical struggle with one of the SWAT officers, at which point the gun accidentally went off. Again, you fail to do any research. Before it was about police procedures, this time it was about not even reading the article and just assuming what happened. Stop cutting corners and take the time to do some reading my friend.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Buddy you don't know police or SWAT procedures obviously. So before going and saying that they weren't trained, you may want do some research before opening your mouth.

To that point, entry tactics of police depend on what they are entering the premises to look for. Simple evidence, it is a knock on the door. Non violent criminal, its a knock on the door.

HOWEVER, this is a violent MURDERER they were looking for. You do not warn a violent armed murderer that you are about to come in, and allow them to do one of the following:

A) Run
B) Arm themselves
C) Take hostages

With a violent, armed murderer, you disorient the occupants, then breach while screaming who you are and that they need to get on the floor, all while back up is covering exits. Again, you do not knock on the door and warn a violent, armed, murderer that you are about to come in.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by johnny2127]

How the hell did this get a star?!

Every thing you say is ok...... if the criminal actualy showed there face in the appartment, but they didn't (at least in the news report that the OP posted they didnt say that at all, which suggest that the cops went to the wrong place entirely).

So really... the cops f'd up the whole thing, so defending them is inexcusible.

Originally posted by johnny2127
You obviously didn't even bother to read the article that the OP posted. They didn't barge in shooting buddy. They flash banged the house, busted the door down, announced who they were, and then the mother got into a physical struggle with one of the SWAT officers, at which point the gun accidentally went off. Again, you fail to do any research. Before it was about police procedures, this time it was about not even reading the article and just assuming what happened. Stop cutting corners and take the time to do some reading my friend.

obviously you don't know what a flash greanade is... *SNIPPED*

Edit: They couldn't HEAR them because the grenade is designed to knock them unconscious, which could mean that the girl who got shot could've been knocked out!

also the grenade makes a flash & a bang. Hence it's nickname stun (or) flashbang grenade. Obviously the news website just shoten the name of the non-leathel weapon.

Edit: sorry about the constant editing, as i'm adding more bits and correcting my spelling.
[edit on 17-5-2010 by lilstu21]

[edit on 17-5-2010 by lilstu21]

[edit on 17-5-2010 by lilstu21]

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Mon May 17 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by LurkerMan

so how does one let a 7 year old girl and her mother know they are coming in?

same procedure?

If there was a mother, 7 year old girl, and a murderer in the home, you would use a variation of the strategy these police did. Again, if the police think a violent, armed murderer is in the home, you do not knock. Regardless of the sad result of this incident, statistically this is the best way to give the highest probability of no one being hurt. But sadly there are times these things happen. Some of you choose to blame the police, even though the gun was accidentally discharged when the mother attacked the officer. I choose to blame to criminal for murdering someone and bringing the police there to arrest them, and the mother for attacking the police officer.

That being said, if the police had actually targeted the child. or not used the strategies that give them the best chances of no one being harmed, then there would be fault on the police side. However, in the instance, that isn't the case.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by johnny2127]

Originally posted by lilstu21

obviously you don't know what a flash greanade is... *SNIPPED*

They couldn't HEAR them because the grenade is deagined to knock them unconsciouns, which could mean that the girl who got shot could've been knocked out!

[edit on 17-5-2010 by lilstu21]

*PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED*

Regarding flash grenades, they disorient sight primarily while leaving nearly all hearing intact (besides the initial roughly 3 second hearing loss from the 'bang) unless you have some type of electronic headset on. Flash grenades temporarily blind you and disorient you in terms of direction. 99% of the time a flash grenade by itself puts people on the ground due to the disorientation and pain in the eyes.


[edit on 17-5-2010 by johnny2127]

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Mon May 17 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by johnny2127


Except, there wasn't a murder or even murder suspect in the home. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that they flashbanged and kicked in the wrong door? You bet your rear that I would not be sitting still when someone throws an explosive through my window and kicks in my front door. The grandmother was protecting the kids, as was her intinct.
The cops' instincts led them to violently raid the WRONG flat, and now a child is dead.

edit: and why do you keep saying violent murder? Didn't they identify the MOPEDS used in the crime? What kind of violent murder commits a crime with a moped?

[edit on 17-5-2010 by PplVSNWO]

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by LurkerMan

so how does one let a 7 year old girl and her mother know they are coming in?

same procedure?

If there was a mother, 7 year old girl, and a murderer in the home, you would use a variation of the strategy these police did. Again, if the police think a violent, armed murderer is in the home, you do not knock. Regardless of the sad result of this incident, statistically this is the best way to give the highest probability of no one being hurt. But sadly there are times these things happen. Some of you choose to blame the police, even though the gun was accidentally discharged when the mother attacked the officer. I choose to blame to criminal for murdering someone and bringing the police there to arrest them, and the mother for attacking the police officer.

That being said, if the police had actually targeted the child. or not used the strategies that give them the best chances of no one being harmed, then there would be fault on the police side. However, in the instance, that isn't the case.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by johnny2127]

could you provide these statistics you speak of?

and what murderer?

the only murderer in the house was the officer who shot the girl.

::edit:: i also find it hilarious your accusing everybody that your argueing with of not reading the article, when its inherently obviously you yourself have not read the article.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

Mod Note: You Have An Urgent U2U- Click Here.

[edit on Mon May 17 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Mod Note: You Have An Urgent U2U- Click Here.



[edit on Mon May 17 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by LurkerMan

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by LurkerMan

so how does one let a 7 year old girl and her mother know they are coming in?

same procedure?

If there was a mother, 7 year old girl, and a murderer in the home, you would use a variation of the strategy these police did. Again, if the police think a violent, armed murderer is in the home, you do not knock. Regardless of the sad result of this incident, statistically this is the best way to give the highest probability of no one being hurt. But sadly there are times these things happen. Some of you choose to blame the police, even though the gun was accidentally discharged when the mother attacked the officer. I choose to blame to criminal for murdering someone and bringing the police there to arrest them, and the mother for attacking the police officer.

That being said, if the police had actually targeted the child. or not used the strategies that give them the best chances of no one being harmed, then there would be fault on the police side. However, in the instance, that isn't the case.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by johnny2127]

could you provide these statistics you speak of?

and what murderer?

the only murderer in the house was the officer who shot the girl.

I was speaking about the situation the police thought they were going to enter once they were in the home. Not the after the fact situation after the police entered. The police were entering looking for a violent murderer who killed a teenager, and was presumed to be armed and dangerous. Again, when you are entering a home with that sort of person presumed to be there, you do not knock and give them a chance to run, arm themselves, or take hostages. Thats just common sense buddy, think about it.

Click here for more information.

I live on the boarder of Detroits east side. I heard alot of commotion Sat night around the time this happend. I heard gun shots ambulences and cop cars. I knew something big was going down in the area.

The clip of the Dad breaks my heart.. I don't even have any children (yet) but if this happened to my 7 year old girl.. ahem.. well if I wasn't a criminal before this happened, I would quickly become one. This guys heart was just run through a meat grinder and what's worse is we all know NOONE will be truly held accountable. Again if it were me, I wouldn't be able to hold myself back and would likely attempt something a la Law Abiding Citizen......
Violence begets violence, especially when u fudge with my family

There is something inherently flawed with current 'law' (policy) enforcement. And until it is addressed more innocents will die for nothing, as has been happening for years. I know those cops on this board will defend it to the death because people will never question any social structure which provides them with authority or control over others - just not going to happen. They get addicted to the power and the symbol and thus seek not to understand the system which they enjoy, but to defend their status with vigor. Go nuts.
But I think one day a real police force will form out of pure necessity. It will be staffed by regular people, and it will supersede current 'L'E because it will have something which current 'L'E is losing faster than the Gulf is losing oil -- support of the populace. Don't believe me? What's the general consensus of this thread on the subject? I think there are more people like me who are POed than there are people willing to forgive a little oopsie by a hero policy officer. or maybe im just a dreamer

Find me a 46 year old woman who could get into a physical confrontation with a police officer after being hit with a flash bang and I'll send you my arms and legs.

Unless she was on meth or pcp, no one that age is getting up after being hit by a flashbang. You can barely stand, you can't see, you can't hear, and most of all the explosion DOES hurt. It doesn't kill, but it hurts.

I call shenanigans.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Find me a 46 year old woman who could get into a physical confrontation with a police officer after being hit with a flash bang and I'll send you my arms and legs.

Unless she was on meth or pcp, no one that age is getting up after being hit by a flashbang. You can barely stand, you can't see, you can't hear, and most of all the explosion DOES hurt. It doesn't kill, but it hurts.

I call shenanigans.

Flashbang's aren't guaranteed to disable someone. If you're not in their immediate area, the effect is greatly diminished. The grandmother could have been in the kitchen, the bathroom, or the bedroom for all we know. Again, you're making assumptions without knowing all the information. There's a lot of variables that negate most of the effects of flashbangs.

Why can everyone believe the police stormed in there and discharged their weapon because they didn't follow the correct safety procedures, but not believe that they broke down the door, got into a scuffle with the grandmother, and the weapon accidental discharged because of that scuffle? Why do the majority of ATS members believe the most outrageous scenario's without closely examining all others?

These officers were working with the information they had. You can't use the excuse that it was "the wrong house", because at the time that wasn't what was going through the officers heads. Their intel stated that there was an armed and extremely dangerous individual on the premises. They followed all the correct procedures for the scenario they were in. It was bad intel. We're humans, we make mistakes even in situations where mistakes can't afford to be made.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Find me a 46 year old woman who could get into a physical confrontation with a police officer after being hit with a flash bang and I'll send you my arms and legs.

Unless she was on meth or pcp, no one that age is getting up after being hit by a flashbang. You can barely stand, you can't see, you can't hear, and most of all the explosion DOES hurt. It doesn't kill, but it hurts.

I call shenanigans.

what the... did you read 86? I mean... a 46 year old person is more than capable of anything... you really think 46 is that old?

Or is it because its a woman...?

Cause I know some women that could prolly kick a guys ass... and they're about 38 / 40...

You talk as if shes 86!

And again I see a lot of cop hating in here... I dont know what you guys have against cops or against the swat, but hey... I'm all pro-law enforcement so all I have to say is that these unfortunate events sometimes happen and I'm sure the cop isnt exactly well and prolly has his mind in shreds...

A murder by police occurs while searching for a SUSPECTED murderer.
You dont flashbang a house while looking for someone to question...
I live about 30 minutes away from Detroit and people in my city are furious over this, police need to be changed...period. They have way too much power and dont care about rights. What happened to:

*knock knock*
Lady - Hello?
Officer - Mam, this is the police, we have a WARRANT to search your house.


Not:

*Kick in door, flashbang the house, fight with the house owner and kill a daughter sleeping on a couch*
Officer - Oh, he's not here? Sorry bout that mam.

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by Izarith

 

No what is wrong with you. Do you know how bad detroit is? Do you know how badly attitudes people are over there? Why don't you try living over there and see how it is. Maybe join the police force to show how rough it is. That woman struggled with the cop and I can see how it went in the end.

DON'T FORGET THE SUSPECT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ALREADY KILLED SOMEBODY!

I'd struggle with intruders who threw a stun grenade through my window, burning my granddaughter in the process, and burst in with guns out.

If the grandmother was in the room at the time she would be too affected by the sun grenade to hear the cops shouting "detroit police" immediately after throwing it.

Nobody in that apartment was guilty of anything.

The suspect was in another apartment.

The police had warrants, (so they say,) for both apartments, so they knew the suspect may not be in the one they were searching.

The police knew there were children in this apartment.

www.detnews.com...



Would you be as understanding if the police ever wrongfully raid your home in this manner and shoot your daughter?
People who defend this type of behaviour, and believe everyone should cower in fear of uniformed intruders, are part of the problem.

Which president was it who warned that freedom must continually be struggled for?

All in all a LEO screwed up in a major way here.

Granted, not a very controlled environment in raiding a home, but the bottom line is that regardless of the circumstances, an innocent 7 year old KID is DEAD.

And the Killer, badge or not, is still a killer, whom will be able to enjoy breakfast with his own kids tomorrow.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Killer.

Most likely, suspension without pay, until things blow over with the media.

After which he will be reinstated.

But Unbeknown st for those involved, your repayment for this murder will inevitably come due by the big Man upstairs.

For we ALL eventually must pay for our SINS.

Originally posted by johnny2127
If there was a mother, 7 year old girl, and a murderer in the home, you would use a variation of the strategy these police did.

There was no murderer in the home.
There was a suspect in a separate, upstairs apartment.

I choose to blame to criminal for murdering someone and bringing the police there to arrest them, and the mother for attacking the police officer.

The SUSPECT was never in that apartment. Try reading the thread.
The police yelled "Detroit Police" immediately after throwing the flashbang through the window, burning a child in the front room, and burst in.

The GRANDMOTHER was most likely a brave woman trying to protect the child, and unable, in those first few seconds after the stun grenade, to hear or see clearly or know what the hell was going on.

That being said, if the police had actually targeted the child. or not used the strategies that give them the best chances of no one being harmed, then there would be fault on the police side. However, in the instance, that isn't the case.

So, cops raid an innocent family, knowing the suspect may not be there, knowing they may have nothing to do with the case, knowing there are children in the home, and they kill a little girl.

And you pronounce them faultless.

Need some more water for all that hand-washing?