God's Fingerprint On Creation Found!

reply to post by Morpheas


Well when a thread inspires an Avatar you know you have accomplished something, glad you liked the video.

Addressing the Atheists that are posting, I am sure that nothing short of what happened to Saul in the New Testament will convince you otherwise.


The account

Acts 9:3-7

3Now as he traveled on, he came near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him,
4And he fell to the ground. Then he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me [harassing, troubling, and molesting Me]? 5And Saul said, Who are You, Lord? And He said, I am Jesus, Whom you are persecuting. It is dangerous and it will turn out badly for you to keep kicking against the goad [to offer vain and perilous resistance].
6Trembling and astonished he asked, Lord, what do You desire me to do? The Lord said to him, But arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.
7The men who were accompanying him were unable to speak [for terror], hearing the voice but seeing no one.

If you don't know, Saul was a Jewish Roman citizen, and he was basically a christian hunter, until this event, then he became the Apostle Paul.
Most likely an atheist will not believe that this even happened, but I felt it was still worth relating.

One point to ponder, we can't see electrical current but we see it's results, in a way I have faith that when I flick a switch, it will work for me, because it has always worked in the past.
We also have faith that the sun will rise and we will have light the next day because every day of our lifetime it has before, so why wouldn't it the next day.
Some atheists are complaining that believing in a creator needs faith. But other area's of life require faith too, we just don't think of it in those terms.
Faith although mostly related to religion and spirituality is not exclusive to it.
You may have faith in your spouse that they will be loyal and faithful to you, that's not religious.

Have you ever wondered why it is that everything we have about God is written by the hand of man? If there is an omnipresent, omnipotent creator of whose image we have been made in...then why is there not some divine document of unquestionable authenticity that can back it up? Or maybe even some epic personal appearance...even a huge booming voice that carries across the planet to tell us to buck up our ideas. Why is all our knowledge of God actually originated from man?

If something is able to create the entire universe and all matter and life then surely providing evidence that cannot be questioned or refuted should be quite easy. We only have the word of man, both verbal and written, to tell us there is a God. I do see the argument for intelligent design, but for a God as depicted in the Bible? Its a toughie. I am not an atheist. I am kind of a deist. Open minded but not gullable. Always love to hear undeniable proof concerning these kind of things. Enjoyed reading the thread



[edit on 19-5-2010 by vwyob]

No two finger prints are alike? Twins! there 10 million of them!

and as for when he says a blueprint, that is ridiculous we evolved from the stars to begin with and to find a common pattern is not hard at all. everything can be eventually predicted if we live long enough and don't kill out self's. That guy reminds me a bit of benoit mandelbrot who has also done similar work and is still alive today. he can predict how whole forests will spawn in years to come with great accuracy from the cells down to hundreds of square miles of forest through something called fractals. just because it has the same shape fo a finger print doesn't mean it is, lots of things have that shape

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I have total FAITH as well but mine is there is NO god because MAN creates god(s) its that simple.

Take a child from a young age and force feed them religion some will rebel and think for themselves others will just settle into it like their parents,and their parents etc,etc.

Here is a link to just some of the gods MAN has created

www.lowchensaustralia.com...

Listed on that link hundreds of gods from all around the world. They have their creation stories for the earth and for man many were worshipped LONG before the christian god. They have just as much right to be believed as any god story but the thing they all have in common is MAN created them.

What I find really interesting is that some people here will believe stories from texts written many years ago that have been translated and altered through time, I mean even today if you look at one story in 2 different newspapers that only happened yesterday both accounts wont be the same THINK ABOUT IT

Hey- What do you guys think of this- I found it to be very intriguing to say the least... This actually deserves a thread of it's own but since this is about the golden mean I will post it here..




[edit on 21/04/10 by jinx880101]

if I find a bush or snail shell or flower that doesn't follow this pattern, does that mean god doesn't exist, that satan made it, a mistake was made, or it was here before god?

Just wondering.

Can't stop thinking about how a banana fits in my thumb and finger now....

reply to post by 13arrows

Sounds to me like you have facts to back this up. That's great. My mind is wide open.
Please post them.

Originally posted by dragonsmusic

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Let's see. The natural order follows certain mathematical formulas, therefore there's a god?

That sure is preposterous.

I could say that not all natural processes follow the same mathematical formula, therefore there is no god.

Religious people get weirder every day

It's not necessary to be religious to have a belief in a prime mover. Mathematical formulas found in nature point to something which has been engineered. Look at the math that goes into architecture. More specifically look at the math that goes into the construction of a high quality music recording studio. The math trail is gigantic and points to the fact that an extraordinary amount of thought went into its creation.

Actually, uou may have it exactly backwards. The math may follow the form. Mathematics is used to describe things. It is a language. Man may look at something and engineer a mathmatical expression to describe it. Man looks at the wheel on an oxcart and creates a mathmatical expression to describe what he sees as the ratio between the distance around it and the distance across it, and then attributes it to a deity when he looks at a sand dollar and seesthe same ratio, or the universe, or the wine vat in Kings 7:23 (Oops, the bible blew that one.). Pi describes. No god created the universe using it on his giant flying spaghetti monster brand sliderule.
Oh yeah, and it wasn't Fibonacci who discovered the sequence. It was an ancient Indian scholar named Gopala. He discovered it while looking at the series of meters used in some 12th century Sanskrit poetry -- a specific meter called the matra-vrttas -- in which each subsequent meter is the sum of the two preceding meters. In fact, if you look through the 13th century long form Italian birth certificates, it is clear there was noone name Fibonacci. The book containing a description was written by Leonardo Pisano (Leonardo of Pisa, the son of Bonacci, or "filius Bonacci."

Originally posted by definity
No two finger prints are alike? Twins! there 10 million of them!

Sorry not true, from what I've read, it is said that they can have similar fingerprints, but not identical, it has something to do with the enviroment in the womb, stresses etc that can make changes.

Peace.

reply to post by _Phoenix_

From what you read seems pretty accurate. I had wondered about this myself. But similar is definitely not identical.

www.hhmi.org...

The video was fantastic. Loved it.

If you liked the video, get a load of this. This is related but takes it to the next level.

And it's hard to argue with.

mikeschuler.site.aplus.net...

I'm honestly baffled by the people who claim there is no God.

I proclaim that there is a God because I have faith in that. I read things about Him, I try to have a relationship with Him, and I attempt to act in ways that I think will bring Glory to His name.

But...

I don't insist to someone else that they're simple minded because they don't believe in my God. I don't insist that one is some how intellectually challenged because they don't believe in a god at all.

Yet...

Those who claim there is no God inevitably go to the realm that those who do believe in God are coveting a great myth and fiction because they can't handle the truth. All this is stated when in fact there is ample evidence that a God exists. The mathematical improbabilities of creation itself are simply too large to ignore by a rational mind.

To insist that there are "energies" we can draw on falls short of trying to explain where those energies came from and where you have the capacity to draw on them. At what point - since your existence on this earth - has ANYTHING simply just "come" into existence?

Where has anything simply just "appeared" where there was nothing before?

I realize this is somewhat of a philosophical question but seriously - if you believe in no creator of any kind... where did all this crap come from? We've got nothing ever recorded in all of human history to give us even a hint that anything in the known universe was able to pop itself into existence.

Physics says something crazy like "... an equal and opposite reaction" and things like "... transference of energy".

Everything we're taught, research, and know to be true says that nothing can simply exist - it must be created from another action....

So where's that first push? Did a non-existent entity do it? To argue this you need to follow the rabbit all the way down the hole, not just the first left turn where it's convenient.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by gncnew]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by gncnew]

reply to post by gncnew



Prove to me if you would that there is a God. Faith is really just believing what somebody wrote or said. Have you seen God? had two way conversations with Him? Have you first hand evidence that God is real and not that you are just reading or hearing the word of others? and agreeing with it for the sake of needing to believe in something? If you have then ask Him why it is innocents are allowed to suffer horrible deaths. Children and good (by Biblical standards) people die horrible deaths sometimes after huge spells of suffering and yet evil nasty SOB's continue to prosper and live seemingly happy lives. How is that fair in the eyes of God?
I really want there to be a God and a great and wise one. One with compassion and promise. But to base your case on a book that gives us no real evidence apart from a few places and names that can be cross referenced historically is a bit naieve. The only facts we have about God are the entire history of this deity has been written down or passed verbally through the ages by man. The picture we see of God is the desperate result of mans hope....that no matter how awful things get, it will be ok in the end. Thats ok. But its not fact. I would urge everyone to read the bible, the whole thing. You will see clearly the mass of contradictions and the clear messgae of hope for the underdog. The character of God from the old book to the new is MASSIVELY different. Why?
I hope I am wrong but a biblical God is out of the question for me. I respect those of faith becasue I wanted to find my own faith. I went on alpha courses, I read the bible over and again. I spoke with pastors and ministers and with theologians. I ended up asking the two same questions. Why do innocents suffer and why is all we have on God written by man and not by the divine hand. Despite long and seemingly complex answers none of them knew why. Thats ok too. Its ok to say...'I don't know' But it turned me away from religion. I hoped it to be true but I am not convinced.


To say that there must be a God because we have apparently come from nothing I can't accept. Could it not simply be that we have yet to discover how things came into existence? By doing this you fall into the same pitfall that the early writers did. Because they did not at that time understand certain things then they merely labelled it 'act of God' or built some divine story around it. Because something is not scientifically explainable at this particular time, why must you label it 'God' ? Why not some kind of hugely intelligent species that could manipulate the cosmos in some way which is miles ahead of us regarding technology? There is just as much evidence for that is there is for God....None. Show me the evidence. Video, audio , whatever. Hells teeth man...arrange a meeting. Where is God? I have talked to Him on many an occasion and He never comes. The world is an extraordinary piece of scientific splendor, be it designed or otherwise. But the Bible is word of man, mostly the desperate rantings of underdogs. Tragic but admirable. I hope you can prove me wrong and show me that He is actually here/there/everywhere.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by vwyob]

reply to post by wmd_2008

Take a child from a young age and force feed them religion some will rebel and think for themselves others will just settle into it like their parents,and their parents etc,etc.

Are you sure about that? I wasn't taught any religion, and through my early 20's, I did not really believe in anything, until I had several encounters with the paranormal, and I was saved from certain death by something Holy and of the Light. From then on, I knew there was a Higher Power.

reply to post by vwyob

Imagine for a moment that everyone on earth knew that no matter what, God didn't let children suffer or die. They were always safe and no harm could ever come to them. What kind of world would that be?
Everything and everyone must be vulnerable. Death must be completely random, with no bias. How would the world treat their children if parents knew that no harm would come to their child? At what age would it appropriate for God to inflict disease abd death? 18? 20? 30?, never? A bit overcrowded the world would be, don't you think?
As far as the level of cruelty, that has to be random as well.
Do you see the brillance in this? I just wish people could understand that nature is not perfect, but the design is, as is the Designer.

reply to post by vwyob

To say that there must be a God because we have apparently come from nothing I can't accept. Could it not simply be that we have yet to discover how things came into existence? By doing this you fall into the same pitfall that the early writers did. Because they did not at that time understand certain things then they merely labelled it 'act of God' or built some divine story around it. Because something is not scientifically explainable at this particular time, why must you label it 'God' ? Why not some kind of hugely intelligent species that could manipulate the cosmos in some way which is miles ahead of us regarding technology? There is just as much evidence for that is there is for God....None. Show me the evidence. Video, audio , whatever. Hells teeth man...arrange a meeting. Where is God? I have talked to Him on many an occasion and He never comes. The world is an extraordinary piece of scientific splendor, be it designed or otherwise. But the Bible is word of man, mostly the desperate rantings of underdogs. Tragic but admirable. I hope you can prove me wrong and show me that He is actually here/there/everywhere.

You're missing my point... ok - so it's a hugely intelligent species... where did they come from? How'd they start? What lit that match?

I believe in God - but the point is that if you simply believe that there is no creator then you're taking as much "faith" in absolutely nothing as I am in God.

Now, really quick, if you want to get into the "Why does God let people suffer" thing I'm more than happy to - but if you read the bible as much as you said then you should already know the answer... hell it's in the first book.

reply to post by elitelogic


Very interesting read. Thanks for the post.

reply to post by vwyob


Nicely written post! I too see many flaws with Christian beliefs. I'm not religious as I have yet not found the truth I'm looking for.. maybe I never will.

Have you seen this video called "The Ring of Power"? This video makes the most sense that I've seen so far but I don't believe all that is in the video.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by sickofitall2012


Yes granted I see this as a 'law of nature' Things die in a random way at random times.
But why are you associating it with a creator? I said in an earlier post I do acknowledge the intelligent design notion, although it is still flawed. But scientists and theologists alike...they really don't actually know. Science explains 'so much' (quite a big 'so much' granted) Where is the actual proof it is all made by God as denoted/symbolised in the Bible? There is none. If you disagree (which of course you are entitled too) then show me the unequivocal evidence that 'He' exists and that 'He' actually did the creating. I can see everything is here there and everywhere but whats to say it was made by a God whose only proof of being is by the word of man. All I see is nature/science. Is there any hard proof? No. I hope there is a God because there are things I need forgiving and I would hate to think that this was it. ....and thats the whole point of it is it not. A man made hope that has grown out of all proportion.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by vwyob]

Originally posted by gncnew
reply to post by vwyob

 

To say that there must be a God because we have apparently come from nothing I can't accept. Could it not simply be that we have yet to discover how things came into existence? By doing this you fall into the same pitfall that the early writers did. Because they did not at that time understand certain things then they merely labelled it 'act of God' or built some divine story around it. Because something is not scientifically explainable at this particular time, why must you label it 'God' ? Why not some kind of hugely intelligent species that could manipulate the cosmos in some way which is miles ahead of us regarding technology? There is just as much evidence for that is there is for God....None. Show me the evidence. Video, audio , whatever. Hells teeth man...arrange a meeting. Where is God? I have talked to Him on many an occasion and He never comes. The world is an extraordinary piece of scientific splendor, be it designed or otherwise. But the Bible is word of man, mostly the desperate rantings of underdogs. Tragic but admirable. I hope you can prove me wrong and show me that He is actually here/there/everywhere.

You're missing my point... ok - so it's a hugely intelligent species... where did they come from? How'd they start? What lit that match?

I believe in God - but the point is that if you simply believe that there is no creator then you're taking as much "faith" in absolutely nothing as I am in God.

Now, really quick, if you want to get into the "Why does God let people suffer" thing I'm more than happy to - but if you read the bible as much as you said then you should already know the answer... hell it's in the first book.

I never said I did not believe in a creator/creators mate Read my first bit and I say I am kind of a deist. I just don't believe in the Bible representation of the creator. I have read the book, I really have. Yes, it would lead to another huge debate (may be fun!). It covers everything. Its a good book. But it is full of contradictions which kind of undermines things from the off. Its also like talking to someone that agrees and disagrees with things of the same matter...plus it is not written by a divine hand. It is written by man and there is no proof or reason to believe it is an authoritative representation of God, if indeed there was one considering this is our source of information about Him. Don't forget there are many Gods in history. If I talk to any of the followers of these Gods then I am met with the same rigid defence of them. Its admirable, but still there is no proof.

OK put it another way. Lets assume I am completely retarded/extremely stupid (this will please some of you immensely ) I know nothing of science or the spirit or anything apart from the here and now and things I can see and touch or experience with my normal senses. You have two mins to show me what God is and prove that He is real. another guy has two mins to show him what a rock is and prove to him it is real. What do you do? Give me hard evidence God is real

Thanks for the post

[edit on 19-5-2010 by vwyob]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by vwyob]