Adam and Eve…literal or allegorical?

My personal view, is that most but not all parts, of the Adam and Eve story are allegorical. I believe it try’s to portray a story, with the help of various visual aids. The big question is, which of those visual aids are literally real and which ones are allegory.


How do you view the story of Adam and Eve, in Genesis?


Do you see it literally or allegorically and if so, why?


- JC

I see it as not literal at all. In fact, I'm almost positive it was never meant to be literal.

I think it is a many layered allegory with both esoteric and exoteric meanings.

Think of it as fractal symbolism, for a fractal universe.

If somehow you can get access to archives, I highly recommend this paper:
MITOCHONDRIAL EVE Critical Reflections on an African Basis to Science and Religion LORENZO FORBES

Some interesting quotes from it:

The solution to reconciling the views of the creationist and the evolutionist lies in the interpretation of two historic occurrences, one of recent origin and the other from remote antiquity. An examination of modem discoveries, both archeological and biolog-
ical, along with a new interpretation of certain ancient mythologies, will demonstrate
with high probability that modern man arose from the deliberate manipulation of genetic material by scientists in antiquity, that an identifiable African female immortalized in sculpted works of art served as the egg donor, and that an Egyptian
deity served as the first surrogate mother; that out of this fantastic occurrence the basic religious concept of baptism as purification was born, along with the concepts of virgin birth and immaculate conception, and that this unique occasion is represented
in the symbol we all have come to accept as the symbol of medicine, the Caduceus
(Figure 1).

Further support for the Eve hypothesis is seen in Egyptian art. The ancient Egyptians often depicted their men with a dark red color and their females with a yellow color. Some scholars believe that the red color symbolically represented man as "the blood of life." According to Wallis Budge (1973), the blood represents life. He notes that the earliest Egyptians painted their bodies with a red pigment, a practice he also noted among central Africans. As the Sumerian epics describe the creation of man from the mixing of a god's blood with the clay of the Abzu (somewhere south of Egypt), so did the ancient Egyptians use the red clay on their bodies to symbolize this belief. It has been observed that the belief in survival after death can be demonstrated from the earliest times by the universal use of red ochre as a ritual substitute for blood, a symbol of life (Eliade, 1978). As Sitchin (1976) points out in The Twelfth Planet, the Hebrew term adama (after which the name Adam was coined) originally meant dark-red soil, and that the word for the color red, adom (Hebrew) and adama stem from the words for blood: adamu, dam. He concluded that "the Adam" could mean "the one of the Earth" (earthling), "the one made of the dark-red soil," and "the one made of blood."

There are many more interesting things in the article. Even if you don't like Sitchin, the article merely uses him as one bolster for a many-faceted argument.

I would post more of it, but its a pain to re-format it haha...

Put me down as allegorical. As, even the rhyming scheme is built in upon later passages.

Adam, essentially Damned the World with sinful nature. And, Eve, in turn did the same. As a lady of the Evening might. The Original Sin. And, in later passages, even New Testament, we are influenced typographically of the power of whoreish behaviors, as in the Whore of Babylon.

So, yeah, it's Transcribed acceptable notions, with a great deal of built in forgiveness.

Originally posted by Joecroft
Do you see it literally or allegorically and if so, why?

Em.. Metaphorical obviously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The concept that a carbon based cellular life form like a woman (Who is actually the Original Sex - XX) was created from the rib of a man, ate a magic apple that was offered to her by a talking snake, was thrown from a Utopian Sky Garden because they realized they were naked and scared with "Original Sin" which they transferred to the rest of the global population through rampant inbreeding is slightly hard to me to stomach....

We are supposed to be intelligent people.. That story was for a simpler time when people had no education and fear of the unknown was rampant..

Even the Catholic Church teaches it to be metaphorical.. And if the headcases in the Vatican can see that there is no way it is meant to be taken literally, then something must be up with the story don't you think?

I'm a simple guy with simple thoughts.

After asking your question of literal or allegorical; I'd ask... "who did their kids marry?"

Since the Bible doesn't mention a webbed hand tribe....allegorical

Allegory , Adam and Eve meaning male and female period . Not meaning two particular individuals as given today .Eve's creation from Adams rib is allegory for DNA extraction .
The Tree of Knowledge was a living being not littoral Tree . This being was the Egyptian God Thoth ( todays Christian Satan wich means advisary) .The Apple is allegory for fruit of the loin ( seed , apples are also known for seeds ). I would also like to side note that when Sir Issac Newton quoted the falling apple for his discovery of Gravity , that gravity was already known for centuaries by the ancient philosophers .This quote is inner speak for the Mystery schools and a referance to Satan the fallen one . I digress , the Eve in question was inpregnated with the seed of Thoth , resulting in Cain ( the Masonic Tubal Cain , the Great Vulcan ) .At this point humanity falls as you have those with half and those with three quater God genes . Story of Adam and Eve appears in Genisis = GENE -ISIS or Isis's Genes . Israel = Isis - Ra -Elohim . The story of Eden is Egypt . I am sorry I must leave this here for now , I will return later to add if need be . Sorry I have not taken time to proof read .

Originally posted by Joecroft
How do you view the story of Adam and Eve, in Genesis?

Do you see it literally or allegorically and if so, why? - JC

My Personal View is a simple View of the "Re-Creation Story".

Genesis Chapter 1 deals with the specific regeneration of the Earth and the reintroduction of the inhabitants of this planet. This is inclusive of the Flora and Fauna as well as something called Modern Man. All lived within the premise of Hunt and Gather to sustain life, and the partnership between Man (or better said Mankind as the Spieces) and the Planet was a stewartship.

Genesis Chapter 2, is a more "specific" topic, which you have addressed directly, and pose a question about.

It is recorded within the records of Science, that the Agricultural Planting and harvesting, as well as the Animal Husbandry of Domestic Creatures, just happens to co-incide with the events expressed in Genesis Chapter 2.

What was Adam? What was his intended purpose, Scripturally?

He was the First to Garden, and name the Chicken, Horse, Cow, Pig, and whatever other Domestic Creatures we have, which funny enough have GLOBALLY agreeable and understood names.

A Chicken in the Deep Fryer in the Deep Southlands of KFC Fame, is the same bird in the Stir Fry of a Hut along the Sides of the Rice Fields of China.

Man's First Gardening Skills? is a link to an ATS topic that revolves around this matter. There are other Posts/Threads that also deal with this matter, and TIMEFRAME.

The Indications seemingly point to a TIMEFRAME that is also reflective to a Storied account expressed in Genesis Chapter 2.

I vote 100% that it is a True Reflection of the Agricultural Man, Created for the expressed purpose to Farm and till the land.

It is also due to this, in specific, that Adam didn't have a Helpmate "LIKE" him. Adam was a new spieces of Mankind, and created alone, unlike the Spieces of Mankind created on the 6th Day, where they are both Male and Female and instructed to Replenish the Earth.

So with that said, I say it is a Literal Event. Afterall, the Bible from Genesis Chapter 2 and on, is basically a Family Pedigree from Adam, through Seth to Christ.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by hinky
I'm a simple guy with simple thoughts.

After asking your question of literal or allegorical; I'd ask... "who did their kids marry?"

Since the Bible doesn't mention a webbed hand tribe....allegorical

Hey Hinky.

After Cain slew Abel, and was "Spoken" to and sent further East of the Garden, than Adam and Eve resided, he "Knew" his wife after his arrival in the Land of Nod.

Genesis Chapter 4 clearly notes this.

In Genesis Chapter 1, on the 6th Day, God and his Son's created MAN in the Image of GOD and his Son's. Like the rest of nature, there was male and female, and they where told to Replenish they Earth. They are also given instructions as to how to sustain their lives, throught Good Sewardship of the Earth, and the Flora and Fauna on the Earth. The Earth was to bear this for Mankind through the events of what we commonly refer to as Nature. Their Life Sustaining means of Living is currentgly descibed as Hunter/Gather.

These are the People from which Cain, and later Seth, would have found their wifes.

It really isn't difficult to grasp, if you take the time to read.

Ciao

Shane

The more I understand the Bible, the more I'm finding literal sense. At first I believed most was allegorical only to be shown time and time again where I was wrong. The deeper question is, "who wants you to believe it is allegorical" followed by the even more important question, "why?".

[edit on 15-5-2010 by saint4God]

reply to post by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac
The Tree of Knowledge was a living being not littoral Tree . This being was the Egyptian God Thoth ( todays Christian Satan wich means advisary).

This is interesting, I also don’t believe, it is a literal tree either…but how is the Egyptian God Thoth, regarded as being, the “Tree of knowledge”… where does this myth/information stem from?



- JC

reply to post by Shane

Originally posted by Shane
My Personal View is a simple View of the "Re-Creation Story".

Genesis Chapter 1 deals with the specific regeneration of the Earth and the reintroduction of the inhabitants of this planet.

“Re-Creation Story”

Why do you believe there was a “reintroduction of the inhabitants of this planet.”?

Where’s the evidence?


- JC

reply to post by saint4God



There are many things I currently see as allegorical…

For example…

I don’t see the “tree of knowledge” as an actual literal tree. I believe it was used as a metaphor, to help describe, man turning away from Gods knowledge and seeking his own understanding. The apple can also be looked at in the same way. I guess I have tried to keep God’s message in 2 Geneis intact, but without the literal meanings being applied to all things. There’s more but I’ll leave it there for now.


May I ask you, what things you saw as allegorical and how you have now come to believe that they are literal?


- JC

reply to post by Dermo

Originally posted by Dermo
Even the Catholic Church teaches it to be metaphorical.. And if the headcases in the Vatican can see that there is no way it is meant to be taken literally, then something must be up with the story don't you think?

Well, you have to remember that the story was written by primitive man, who were most likely trying to understand things around them, that God created. Now whether you believe in God or that we are the product of some advanced alien civilization; primitive man still had to try and describe events going on, at that period in time.

The Indians, for example, when they first saw trains, depicted them as iron horses because they didn’t understand what they were seeing. I believe this same type of dilemma, so to speak, would have affected early primitive mans description of events.


- JC

I'm kinda partial to Assassin's Creed 2's take on Adam and Eve...

Originally posted by Joecroft
How do you view the story of Adam and Eve, in Genesis?
Do you see it literally or allegorically and if so, why?
- JC

Literally. Because something cannot come from nothing.

Well, unless you're willing to accept that humans instantly sprang up from dirt and a rib, respectively and that a snake dropped by and told a woman to eat a fruit which magically screwed humanity over then of course the only option is a metaphorical interpretation.

As far as the significance, the tree of life may have some kind of link to the "world tree" in other mythologies and the serpent is also widely used as a symbol in many cultural mythologies from around the world. Adam and Eve as male and female may represent the whole "duality out of unity" theme. Also, I remember reading somewhere that the 4 rivers in Eden represented something that I can't quite remember now...it may have been something corresponding to the "4 elements" of hermetic(?) philosophy.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, just throwing out some leads you may want to research.

Originally posted by Joecroft
[I don’t see the “tree of knowledge” as an actual literal tree. I believe it was used as a metaphor, to help describe, man turning away from Gods knowledge and seeking his own understanding.

One thing that has often struck me about the story of the "tree" is that it is not about knowledge as such. It is, very specifically, about the "knowledge of good and evil", i.e. the ability to distinguish between them.

Now understanding a difference between good and evil necessarily involves awareness of the existence of evil. Without that awareness, they would have been able to live among the "good", but they would not have been able to identify it as "not-evil". Just as White can exist in the absence of other colours, but White could be recognised and identified as such by human minds in the absence of other colours. If "knowing good and evil" involves making the acquaintance of evil, that would explain why it is treated as a bad move.

Originally posted by Joecroft
May I ask you, what things you saw as allegorical and how you have now come to believe that they are literal?

Sorry for the delay. Where to begin? I believe it began when I read the instruction portions of the Bible as, "wouldn't it be nice if...". For example, when the Bible says, "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you". Initially I thought that meant "wouldn't it be nice if we loved each other and wished others well even though they don't like us?". As I began to apply this actually this advice I decided to try a literally approach and actually love someone who hated me and pray for them. Although it was a surprise to see them turn just a little bit of hate into tolerance (dare I say acceptance), it was even more of a surprise how it changed me interally. If I could do that for one person, someone who apparently wanted me dead, then surely I could do so for everyone. A domino effect began to ensue, not only with the advice but with historical and archaeological evidences. The only allegorical meanings (which could be applied literally as well) are parables whereas Christ says they are parables. I will attest, ladies and gentlemen, I've found no danger in taking the Bible literally, but it certainly can be a big help.

Originally posted by Joecroft
The Indians, for example, when they first saw trains, depicted them as iron horses because they didn’t understand what they were seeing.

It's not that they thought they were indeed iron horses, it is how they had depicted them. It was a 'best fit' description, which, might I say has a great deal of accuracy. They were indeed made of iron and did indeed pull things, required fuel and expelled a by-product. I guess we could call 'primitive man' stupid, but actually it kinda makes us look absurd for not being able to understand the basics of observation.

Originally posted by Superbus
Well, unless you're willing to accept that humans instantly sprang up from dirt

What is the primary atom found existing in living things?

Originally posted by Superbus
and a rib,

What molecular structure is responsible for meiosis in humans?

Originally posted by Superbus
respectively and that a snake dropped by and told a woman to eat a fruit which magically screwed humanity over then of course the only option is a metaphorical interpretation.

Your evidence that shows it did not happen? Your evidence to show that any one of us in the same conversation would not do the same thing?

[edit on 18-5-2010 by saint4God]