Gulf Oil Spill More Than 10X Greater Than Thought: Experts

I pump oil products on and off barges for a living and wanted to let you guys know that we can pump two 25,000 barrel barges off to a refinery in around 12 hours, using two decent sized diesel pump engines with deep well pumps pushing around 55psi through a 8 to 12 inch pipeline. Now think 70000psi through whatever size drill stem running 24 hours a day? I think we are being lied to.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Either you are an amazing corporate shill, or just completely bedazzled and dumbfounded by corporatism itself.

I am really tired of this anti-corporate mentality. The propaganda is working, isn't it? Drilling for oil in deep water is a risky business, and sh!t happens. Do you really think that these roughnecks on oil rigs are just out there screwing off and being careless?

Not the roughnecks, but the oily/greasy corporate guys who wine & dine the spineless/weasley DC guys who signed off on it being OK not to test each & every blowout preventer in a NIST certified lab (especially ultra-high pressure deep wells). Considering the known potential ecological/economic damage should just one of these deep wells get out of control, vs. the extremely low relative cost of testing blow-out preventers, that corporate grab-a$$ scheme is out-dated and totally reprehensible.

How often does this kind of thing happen? People are comparing this to the Exxon Valdez incident, which was 21 years ago. Why not compare it to something more recent? Because there isn't something more recent.

It's recent enough, it's in the Gulf now, it's unprecedented and it's in our faces and smelling really bad. And the majority of the spill is dissolved and sinking to the bottom, because of ecologically unfriendly dispersants, waiting for a hurricane to bring it to the surface.

For the amount of oil drawn from the gulf, and the number of rigs there, I'd say statistically their safety record is pretty good. Similar to NASA's safety record with space shuttles.

Except that one space shuttle doesn't kill off half the marine resources in eastern North America.

Please go back and re-think this, then go to a Gulf beach in a month or so,(if you're in NM that may not be possible), kick sand and tarballs and dead fish and birds between your toes, and smell the rot that corporatism brings us all.

Makes me wonder... this could just keep going and going... the worst disaster in history. The deaths of all the life, the poor helpless animals that just want to live.. the death and contamination of the entire area.. or perhaps evem more.. could it just keep going for years? To completely contaminate the oceans? Happened to be on April 20th.. During the Walpurgis..."the Witches' Black Sabbath", when Hell's blackest evil roamed the earth and all the slaves of Satan gathered for nameless rites and deeds. I'm not sayin it was on purpose... or am i? I dunno.. Just a little thing to think on...

We got chemtrails converting the -- err I mean "polluting" the atmosphere and now oil in our waters... then there is the issue of the methane.. the building up of methane and more methane.. and more... chemtails, oil and methane... oh.. my.

So maybe no one is trying to terraform the water.. but still, accident or not, the implications -- this might be it.. No more fishing.. and we have only to wait to see what becomes of the coast and marshlands.. wastelands? Will the currents carry the oil out to sea... and to the carribean? Killing all in its path.. Will the methane build up and...?? And will it ever end? All I got to say now is... I got a bad feeling.

RDDS

I have some concerns about this myself.

1) Given that this is an uncontrolled leak, they are not backfilling the oil pocket with sea water or CO2. Eventually, the pressure inside the pocket will not be high enough to prevent the roof of the pocket from caving in.

2) Additionally, if the pressure drops too quickly, the bottom of the pocket could bow upwards and crack. If this happens, what are the possibilities of this thing turning into a volcano?

It would all make for a great Sci-Fi (sorry SyFy) channel movie, at least.

Bash me all you like. NOBODY can agree on the rate at which the oil is leaking. So, most everyone in this thread is being alarmist based on speculation, choosing to use the scariest numbers for your position. Opportunistic alarmist speculation. What is your agenda here?

And what is this business about global chaos? We'll see - I doubt it.

Read my posts again and try not to take them personally. I think this rig accident is a bad thing like you do. By the way, nothing we do to the earth will destroy it. It only harms ourselves and other living things. The earth and nature will still be here long after we've polluted ourselves into extinction. If you use the argument that we are causing extinctions, perhaps we're expediting some, but consider all the species that have lived and become extinct long before humans and industrialized societies were around. How did those happen without us to screw things up?

It's fascinating how everyone here is an expert on oil rig disasters. Google makes you an expert? Repeating things you heard on some MSM show makes you an expert? I'm certainly no expert, but I have seen what takes place in the aftermath of huge oil spills. People scream armageddon at the time, yet a few years down the road, there is little to zero evidence it even happened. Nature is resilient, that's a major point I am trying to make. Everyone is clucking like this is going to do some kind of permanent harm and we'll have GLOBAL CHAOS (that cracked me up).

[edit on 15-5-2010 by AwakeinNM]

Originally posted by grizzard83
I pump oil products on and off barges for a living and wanted to let you guys know that we can pump two 25,000 barrel barges off to a refinery in around 12 hours, using two decent sized diesel pump engines with deep well pumps pushing around 55psi through a 8 to 12 inch pipeline. Now think 70000psi through whatever size drill stem running 24 hours a day? I think we are being lied to.

Wow. Thank you for the professional angle. I bet we're looking at the 100,000+ barrel a day range. I really don't know where this is going or how it will change our world, but I know it will.

Originally posted by revdrdrsunshine
Makes me wonder... this could just keep going and going... the worst disaster in history. The deaths of all the life, the poor helpless animals that just want to live.. the death and contamination of the entire area.. or perhaps evem more.. could it just keep going for years? To completely contaminate the oceans? Happened to be on April 20th.. During the Walpurgis..."the Witches' Black Sabbath", when Hell's blackest evil roamed the earth and all the slaves of Satan gathered for nameless rites and deeds. I'm not sayin it was on purpose... or am i? I dunno.. Just a little thing to think on...

We got chemtrails converting the -- err I mean "polluting" the atmosphere and now oil in our waters... then there is the issue of the methane.. the building up of methane and more methane.. and more... chemtails, oil and methane... oh.. my.

So maybe no one is trying to terraform the water.. but still, accident or not, the implications -- this might be it.. No more fishing.. and we have only to wait to see what becomes of the coast and marshlands.. wastelands? Will the currents carry the oil out to sea... and to the carribean? Killing all in its path.. Will the methane build up and...?? And will it ever end? All I got to say now is... I got a bad feeling.

RDDS

I started a thread about the 'explosion' that started this event happening on 4.20. I know there is a correlation. It is almost unspeakable though. It is that deep. Too deep down the rabbit hole even for ATS. Only Thor can help us now....

reply to post by ghaleon12


Sadly that is a deliberate tactic.

Full disclosure would result in the public actually being informed about what is going on. That would remove all chances for those involved to stall and try to spin the situation into a profitable one; the public would demand a resolution that may not benefit the companies and their paid off politicians.

Make no mistake, the back room meetings have little to do with the public good but instead with bottom lines and deflecting blame. Until the situation is resolved in such a way as the oil companies can at least dodge having to be held completely responsible (or at least further limit their responsibility in the future) they will allow this disaster to continue escalating.

Also, remember that the larger objective globally is to levy taxes on the public for decades of corporate pollution. The embarassing revelation that global warming was blatantly biased in favor of supporting this goal means another approach is required.

If TPTB allow this leak to continue unabated the groundwork will be set for, at the very least, increased taxation on anything involving access to water.

Add to that the pollution of thousands of miles of waterfront means the EPA can step up and declare the land uninhabital, forcing people off their land freeing it up for further corporate/government exploitation. Take a look at the wreckage in New Orleans...

Frontline: The Old Man and the Storm

That link is for the first few minutes of an hour long program, if you watch it all I guarantee you will get the same impression that I did: Companies want the land but don't want to pay for it. Stalling over rebuilding funds, the insurance companies weasling out of obligations, changes to EPA regulations for clean up requirements and the fact that so many people have been moved away and cannot afford to return (or rebuild if they were able to go home)...all of this means that in time the Mayor's office will be able to declare the land abandonned.

It's all a game, and we're meant to be the losers.


[edit on 15-5-2010 by [davinci]]

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Please go back and re-think this, then go to a Gulf beach in a month or so,(if you're in NM that may not be possible), kick sand and tarballs and dead fish and birds between your toes, and smell the rot that corporatism brings us all.

That describes New Jersey beaches on a good day. If you're so anti-corporation, why don't you move to a country where the state owns all the corporations, and tell me how much better it is living there.

Here is a really good article on the oil volcanoe. It really puts things in perspective and answers a lot of questions, or at least it did for me.

"This well had to produce over 60,000 barrels per day in order to break even. Shocking as it seems, this well would have been closed in and disposed of had it produced a minor total like 20,000 barrels per day. That would have been a “Dry Hole”! It wouldn’t have paid for the pipes to bring the oil to market. The fact that BP management was aboard the rig and very happy, celebrating, just prior to the explosion says the well probably produces more than 200,000 barrels per day. It might well have produced 500,000 or more. Royalties to the US Government multiply the numbers for break even by about 2:1 so 500,000 barrels per day is very realistic. And that is what they would have been celebrating while things were under control.

With this in mind, remember that this well is running wild. A wild well produces far more than a well during normal production. This is why it is so dangerous. The conclusions for how much is coming up are simply unbelievable. "

www.examiner.com...

For those of you who have never witnessed high pressure let me tell you the most pressure I have ever witnessed is 1800 psi even this amount of pressure is hard to imagine until you see and hear it, this thing has 70,000 psi I really can't even wrap my mind around that!

i think there's a slim chance they'll fix this up soon..

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Barack Obama sends nuclear experts to tackle BP's Gulf of Mexico oil leak.

What are they doing there sending nuclear Experts?

70,000 psi in some perspective

33ft of water = 1atm = 14.7 psi

33ft/14.7 psi = 2.245 psi/ft of water

2,245 psi/ft X 70,000psi = 157,150 ft of water or ~4-5x deeper than the deepest trench

reply to post by grizzard83


As a professional, what are your thoughts about the methane gas? Do you know if they are measuring the amount dissolved in the water? In your experience, has methane-saturated water killed sealife before?

I got concerned about the methane and pulled together as many references as I could find in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Would you mind taking a look and seeing if my concerns are genuine?

I have seen a video from the air, and this spill makes Exxon Valdez look like a drop in the bucket. This disaster is truly one of epic proportions, and on par with Hurricane Katrina or worse. This has the propensity of turning the gulf into a dead zone. Now, I am no tree hugger or an environmental headcase, but this gives me the creeps. The sheer size and scope of this oil spill is absolutely appalling and the affects to the coastline, economy, and wildlife will last for generations. Hopefully, nature can take its course to clean things up, because mankind has just participated in one of its most epic failures.

Plus, the stock videos of the oil spewing out of that hole is very creepy. It is coming out of there like a geyser, and has been doing so since April. Personally, all I see from the government and BP is the fine art of passing the buck, rhetoric, and politicizing the event. Instead of bickering by our so called leaders, why not lead for once? All this conjecture by big oil and the politicians seem like school yard temper tantrums. Truly disgusting by the attitude of all those involved, an very childish. Hey elites, I have good one for you, why not dump some oil off the coast of Martha's Vineyard or the Hamptons?

Please excuse the last comment, because I would not want this happen anywhere, but I mean if that oil was heading for their own backyards and summer homes, perhaps, they would get the picture of how serious this is for the entire gulf region? This is not something to bicker back and forth about, and it is time for someone to show some stones about the matter! Screw the litigation, who is responsible, whom to bill, and on and on. It is a problem for us all, because last I checked, everyone is dependent on what is spewing out of that hole. Maybe someone needs to go down to the gulf and knock a few heads together or box some ears? Similar to what Lieutenant General, Russel Honore, did in regards to the response after Katrina. He went down there and kicked over a few rocks to find what was stalling the response efforts, and kicked some in the rear who needed kicking.



Maybe as the good general said, and this is aimed at the oil execs and the politicians; maybe they are, "Stuck on Stupid!" So, as the business leaders and politicians play the blame game, a man made disaster of biblical proportions is ravaging gulf. Are their petty disagreements and finger pointing going to plug that hole? To put things into perspective, this spill can be seen from space! The fact of the matter is that their behavior is only aiding and abetting the problem. If they want to sit on their hands and argue, then move aside. Send someone down there with a no nonsense attitude, and lets do something constructive to try and stem this problem.




[edit on 16-5-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by AwakeinNM

That describes New Jersey beaches on a good day. If you're so anti-corporation, why don't you move to a country where the state owns all the corporations, and tell me how much better it is living there.

I'm not anti-corporation, but I am in favor of not letting corps. run out-of-control without any checks on what they are doing to the environment (or people,economy etc...). Paying off politicians to maximize profits is very 19-20th century. People are waking up, and people like you are trying to keep them asleep by telling them how much better things are that we just let things like the Gulf spill happen, because in your words "Fish will die, people's vacations will suck, this will pass and you all will have forgotten it even happened by this time next year. "

I will append that to my signature so we can review this in the future.

In the mean time, you have really struck a nerve by suggesting that
I move to another country, when my ancestors both maternal and paternal have been here since Texas was a Republic (1836). I have worked in the oil patch and Uranium fields of S. TX as a young man, and I have witnessed first-hand the damage and contamination that is being handed down to our descendants by corporate types who could give a dam^ about local resources.

I suggest that you leave to whatever corporate hell-hole contagion you came from, OR start protecting the Earth- The only place we have to live (as far as us poor folks know).

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

That describes New Jersey beaches on a good day. If you're so anti-corporation, why don't you move to a country where the state owns all the corporations, and tell me how much better it is living there.

I'm not anti-corporation, but I am in favor of not letting corps. run out-of-control without any checks on what they are doing to the environment (or people,economy etc...). Paying off politicians to maximize profits is very 19-20th century. People are waking up, and people like you are trying to keep them asleep by telling them how much better things are that we just let things like the Gulf spill happen, because in your words "Fish will die, people's vacations will suck, this will pass and you all will have forgotten it even happened by this time next year. "

I will append that to my signature so we can review this in the future.

In the mean time, you have really struck a nerve by suggesting that
I move to another country, when my ancestors both maternal and paternal have been here since Texas was a Republic (1836). I have worked in the oil patch and Uranium fields of S. TX as a young man, and I have witnessed first-hand the damage and contamination that is being handed down to our descendants by corporate types who could give a dam^ about local resources.

I suggest that you leave to whatever corporate hell-hole contagion you came from, OR start protecting the Earth- The only place we have to live (as far as us poor folks know).

Hey hey, play nice. I'm playing devil's advocate here because everyone seems to be screaming about this being the worst environmental disaster EVER. Maybe it will turn out to be that bad, but my point is that it seems to becoming an opportunistic event for environmentalists to go ape sh!t on us and make declarations based on speculative numbers. The range I've seen is somewhere between 24,000 and 4 million+ barrels a day. Really? Could we get that number narrowed down? Anyone on here who does math and makes declarations is speculating as well. They are using some source which is speculative. See where I am going here? There's a lot of BS being slung because certain people have an agenda.

For the record, I am currently self-employed and work from home in addition to owning a small business (which I don't personally operate). We've held fundraisers for things like the Haiti relief effort. We donate to various community events and school functions. I've never been employed by a company that had more than 120 employees. I recycle, I buy environmentally friendly products when I can, and I am constantly shutting the lights off in my house like my dad used to do (my wife likes leaving them on). I don't think local governments are doing enough to promote recycling. So, as usual, another ATSer is WAY off on their assumptions about me.

I agree with you about corporatism, and appreciate your experiences in Texas and take your word for what you're saying. But why does everyone on here have to point fingers and blame some entity when they really don't know sh!t about the situation. I'm probably smarter than the average puke on here, and all I know is what I hear on the news, which I know to be a load of BS. Are you all BP executives and/or politicians? You know what is going on in so-called backroom meetings? Speculating, again. It's just parroting the narrative.

Otherwise, I'm watching and wondering when the BP monkeys are going to get their act together and stop this thing before it does turn into the worst spill in history. Who the hell would drill in 5000 feet of seawater and not expect this kind of thing to happen anyway?

[edit on 15-5-2010 by AwakeinNM]

The liberal West cost must have planned this,
Just think about all the freedom loving states that will no longer
have good sea food. Hopefully we can get rid of the FDA so they can get back to selling fishs and shrimps for us to eat

The seafood industry in the Gulf is screwed in a major way. Not only are they screwed, this spill is going to screw the entire seafood industry.

I do not eat much seafood, but I am not touching seafood anymore. You have no idea where your seafood comes from and I will be damned if he eats anything from the Gulf of Mexico. Especially with all those "dispersant" chemicals being poured into the Gulf right now. You know how this is going to play out, the oil industry, food industry, and federal govt. are going to say that it has no toxicicity so that they can save the seafood industry in the South, but in reality, that crap will give you cancer.

Forget it! It's unfortunate for these fisherman in the south. I bet most of them were republicans thinking "drill baby drill" was such a great idea. Not so great idea now is it? As usual, these people should have listen to REAL common sense from the LEFT. But instead, they chose to be ignorant (which is the only thing they are good at) and this is what you get.

You made your bed, now you got to sleep in it now. And please, I do not want the government giving welfare checks to people who are "too lazy" to work.

www.nytimes.com...

Scientists Find Giant Plumes of Oil Forming Under the Gulf

"Scientists are finding enormous oil plumes in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico, including one as large as 10 miles long, 3 miles wide and 300 feet thick in spots. The discovery is fresh evidence that the leak from the broken undersea well could be substantially worse than estimates that the government and BP have given."