Why the HELL are you NOT a Libertarian?

There is one tenet of Libertarianism.

You have the RIGHT to do anything as long as you do not infringe on someone else's rights of Life, Liberty or Property.

I will always be your friend and benefactor.

You have the right to your own world. You have the right to believe in what you want. You have the right to self determination.

Why the HELL are you not a Libertarian?

Cause Libertarianism is just a nice way to say Anarchy.

Which kind of doesn't work in a real world sense.

Cause you are assuming that everybody doesn't want at some point to infringe on people's rights.

The fact is that some people just wanna see the world burn.

Now I am of "Libertarian" values, I support most of the agenda, but a full out Libertarian culture is like a Utopia, nice to think about, impossible to implement.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Cause Libertarianism is just a nice way to say Anarchy.

Which kind of doesn't work in a real world sense.

Cause you are assuming that everybody doesn't want at some point to infringe on people's rights.

The fact is that some people just wanna see the world burn.

Now I am of "Libertarian" values, I support most of the agenda, but a full out Libertarian culture is like a Utopia, nice to think about, impossible to implement.

~Keeper

I'm a libertarian and my signature says it all.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by tothetenthpower



I concur, as long as we have big government, whether you are a libertarian or have some other beliefs, it really won't have a big affect on society as a whole. No massive changes will be accomplished either way, you live your life as you see fit.

sounds like anarchy to me.

I am an american and we dont have this party here. I support freedom and god by voting republican. The republicans are the true patriots who are not afraid to go toe to toe against liberals who want to burn our flag in the streets like these libertarians. I cant support a group that spits on the american way of life by burning our flag or demonizing President Bush, the last true president.

I can field this one.
Massive disclaimer first.
I have been labeled libertarian
by many people in many conversations.
So please take the following as just perspective.

Facist tyrant runs for office. Holds press conference
with hordes of conformist zombies shouting adorations.
"What are the liberals gonna do? Start agreeing with each other?"

In other words 1 million Libertarians = 1 million opinions.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by tigpoppa
sounds like anarchy to me.

I am an american and we dont have this party here. I support freedom and god by voting republican. The republicans are the true patriots who are not afraid to go toe to toe against liberals who want to burn our flag in the streets like these libertarians. I cant support a group that spits on the american way of life by burning our flag or demonizing President Bush, the last true president.

What?

You think there's a difference between Dems and the GOP?

So they have you brainwashed too eh?

You do know they answer to the same people right? The corporations and the bankers?

What you see on TV is just the the scripted reality series they are paid to play out, to make you think they are different.

Trust me, they are not.

Doesn't matter who you vote for, or who wins any elections, things will continue as planned.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Okay, you applying Anarchism to Libertarianism is really pissing me off.

Anarchism is a society with NO governmental control.

Libertarianism there is a governmental control. It is based on such a society that was created in the beginning of America.

The government is controlled by a certain set of rules that they were NOT allowed to circumnavigate. They were NOT allowed to go beyond.

Every single problem we have now can be DIRECTLY linked to the government going beyond it's scope.

Give me one example, just one that does not have to do with government. You cannot, because life needs to be controlled by tyrants.

Life is finite. It is an endeavor to exist. What else is there?

Anytime a government tries to control the citizenry, the control is for one thing and one thing only, for the benefit of government or the collective.

Any argument? Of course not.

Life is meant to be enjoyed, not controlled. I am me, you are you, we are individuals that ARE NOT the same.

Let us be free, let us make our own choices. WE ARE NOT CHILDREN!

You are a libertarian and then what? What can be accomplished in a more broader spectrum?

Not being disrespectful, I'm just curious as to how things would change if lets say a couple of million people decide to succumb to libertarianism.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
sounds like anarchy to me.

I am an american and we dont have this party here. I support freedom and god by voting republican. The republicans are the true patriots who are not afraid to go toe to toe against liberals who want to burn our flag in the streets like these libertarians. I cant support a group that spits on the american way of life by burning our flag or demonizing President Bush, the last true president.

You're out of your mind, sir.

There is no political party that God supports and you're crazy for believing it.

That being said, if it were possible that humans were all alone, Libertarianism would certainly be a way of being - and it really actually is the way of being.

Of course I believe in God and believe that His way is the only way...........

But do not fool yourself into believing that His way is political at all.

reply to post by endisnighe

Okay, you applying Anarchism to Libertarianism is really pissing me off.

Unfortunate.

Anarchism is a society with NO governmental control.

So is libertarianism. You can't have government implying rules and regulations if your allowed to do whatever the hell you want, that's kind of a paradox.

Libertarianism there is a governmental control. It is based on such a society that was created in the beginning of America.

No, America was founded as a Republic. There's a difference.

The government is controlled by a certain set of rules that they were NOT allowed to circumnavigate. They were NOT allowed to go beyond.

That's not libertarianism, that's a Republic...

Every single problem we have now can be DIRECTLY linked to the government going beyond it's scope.

Your right about that, although the influence was from outside sources. Bankers, Corporations and Special Interest Groups.

Give me one example, just one that does not have to do with government. You cannot, because life needs to be controlled by tyrants.

An example of what?

Life is finite. It is an endeavor to exist. What else is there?

I don't really see where your going with this.

Anytime a government tries to control the citizenry, the control is for one thing and one thing only, for the benefit of government or the collective.

That's what government does, control things. They Regulate things.

Any argument? Of course not.

Since were not face to face having this debate, it's a bit strange that you tell me I have no argument before I'm able to post one, don't you think?

Life is meant to be enjoyed, not controlled. I am me, you are you, we are individuals that ARE NOT the same.

I agree, I enjoy life everyday, I don't let anything prevent me from being happy.

~Keeper

reply to post by ReAlIzAtIoN


Well, for one thing, if you decided to do something that did not break the law of libertarianism, you would not go to jail.

Some people love to equate it with anarchy.

Wrong!

The US of A was based upon this theory. If you did not hurt someone, or infringe on their rights, you have done nothing wrong.

Actually, some would say this theory is closest to the theory that religion of the ancient times fomented.

Let us say I did not do something you agreed with. I myself do not believe in abortion. But by my beliefs of libertarianism, I could not try to impart my beliefs on you. Of course I could try and change your mind, but that is not the same as the gov trying to infer it's beliefs.

We have to come to an agreement of governance. Sooner or later. It is either complete control that our government wants, or the individual wants.

WHO THE HELL DO YOU TRUST?

See?
Plenty of
libertarian
leanings in this
thread but no two
voices are in agreement.

"What are they gonna do?
Start agreeing with each other?"

/game /set * /match


David Grouchy

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Anarchy proposes a stateless society, which I think you may be right in labeling as utopian and unachivable. But it my understanding that Libritarianism proposes a limited state whos sole function is to protect the rights of the individual, and this is a government that has been practiced with great sucess throughout history. (think early USA, the most productive, egalitarian and free society to ever exist.) So I dont think the two, while ideolocially similar in their goals (a society free of suffocating government and thus true freedom) are equatable. Libritatarianism is a more realistic in its means, recognizing that a limited central government is necessary in order to defend against those who `want to see the world burn`.

And of course that limited central government will always grow and become corrupt, as all governments do always without exception, but thats a whole nother thread.

reply to post by Neo_Serf


I agree they aren't 100% the same, but the basic core is the same.

No laws, nobody to tell you what to do, just somebody to tell you what NOT to do.

Again, kind of a paradox.

~Keeper

reply to post by ReAlIzAtIoN
Well lets see, for starters we could return to a non-interventionist foriegn policy, i.e. truly free trade with all peoples and non-entangling alliances.

Then from there maybe we could close all of our OCONUS military bases, bring those soldiers back home and keep just enough on active duty to, oh I dont know, defend these united States from foreign attack and let the rest return to the workforce to actually produce something for the economy.....

Just for starters, you know....

reply to post by blood0fheroes


Thank you for some common sense.

Non Interventionalist is the only Foreign policy you should have, unless it directly affects your citizens livelyhood.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think that under Libritarianism, no one tells you what to do as long as your arent victimizing anyone in a real and tangible way. If you do, there is a central authority, authorized by those who do not infringe on the rights of others (in theory) to punish victimizers.

Whereas with anarchy there is no one to punish those who infiringe on the freedom and freewill of others.

The alternative, collectivism (which is what you and i live under to one degree or another, fellow Hab) allows for a robust state that will inevitably fall into the hands of victimizers and will wield that state against the peoples, no matter how high the ideals of said state were founded on. This is as close to a law of history as is possible, that power corrupts, and the most concentrated power can be found in the collectivist state where psychopaths and victimizers will ineviatably congregate.

Maybe.



[edit on 11-5-2010 by Neo_Serf]

reply to post by endisnighe



I agree, this is exactly what I lean towards, but it reality will libertarianism prevail? It's good on paper, but it would be difficult to get majority to understand the concept of liberty. Some people think liberty is deciding whether or not I should choose large/medium/small coke, or whter or not I should choose this flavor of ice cream or that flavor. We need to first establish the concept of liberty and make sure majority comprehend what out founding fathers had the desire for USA.

Libertarians don't believe in initiating force against others. That means all forms of force, whether it be financial force, physical force, legislative force, etc... Of course, this doesn't mean that you can't apply force back to someone who has initiated force against you. It's basically the same principal as ultimate liberty. You have all the liberty in the world, up until it impedes on the liberties of someone else, which then turns it into a responsibility.

America was founded on the principals of liberty. It's a shame that we no longer have liberty at all. Just think about it, we don't even have the liberty to decide what we put in our bodies. We don't have the liberty to decide how and when we'll die. We don't have the liberty to protect our persons or possessions. We don't have the liberty to catch, kill or gather our own meals. Most liberties that are completely self evident and handed to us by our creator/s, we no longer have as we surrendered them to the government. We are basically allowing the government to make our choices for us because somehow, the people think that the government knows how to manage lives better than the owners of those lives.

I don't know about anyone else but I think I know how to live my life better than anyone else and just as I wouldn't let "joe-blow" manage my check book, I don't want the government to manage my life. After all, they don't even hold our best interests at heart.

--airspoon