Modern Woman

Originally posted by Mountainmeg

It gets harder as they get older. But parents need to be parents, not friends.

I will agree with everything you wrote except this,for me being my childrens friend is something i pride myself on,i dont think parents look at the children as friends,thats half the trouble,children seem to be some sort of social statement,people are not having children because they want them,seems they are having them to become accepted by there piers.


Regards to all

Originally posted by savageheart
I am all for women standing on their own and pursuing whatever dream, goal, achievement they may have. I often wonder how much better our country may be in the hands of a female Commander in Chief. However, I must add, as Dr. Phil has said, "You allow people to treat you on your own accord." I do realize it is hard to stand your ground sometimes, but look at what has happened in the past when people, women, stood up for what they wanted and believed in. I can't necessarily believe that women have been pushed in a corner per se, they sometimes allow it and I would definitely encourage any woman to keep pursuing whatever it is that they wish to achieve. It is not unlike everything we discuss here on a daily basis.......choose freedom...and if you are considered a B because of it....Stand tall and proclaim....."You're Dam Right!"

My two cents....had a dollar fitty but have to do some chores around the house as the wife is busy with her school work.......

This is what im saying women have embraced the fact that they can use sex as a power tool over men and think they have found there place in a mans world.People can be free and still have values/morals.


Regards to all

Well a few years ago I was disturbed by the US beauty pageant scene and thought that it could not cross over the pond. Well it didn’t but the sexualisation of young girls in the UK has a different manifestation now.

The big question was "who was the custodian of the debate about women’s emancipation?"

Well it was the Women’s movement AKA the feminists. The fragmented movement further fragmented and some key women simply retired from the struggle. Others became post feminist feminists and believed that the goals had been achieved. Well the original goals of the feminist movement certainly were not.

Then again the media and yes even our dear ATS waged a relentless campaign against the “manhating sisterhood”. So without the custodians of the debate the social climate changed hence we see the current state of affairs.


[edit on 11-5-2010 by Tiger5]

“pop-culture” has convinced women that they want men for sex

Biology ensures that women want men for sex.

Most of the behaviours that are listed here, are behaviours that have their roots in biology. The media, with our compliance, has used this fact to their advantage of course, and we have bought it hook line and sinker.

I am a woman and I DO want to be sexy, in fact, it's an uncontrollable urge. As I get older, the urge is stronger, I have not had children, my body is working overtime to ensure that reproduction takes place, so my sex drive is up ( shocking I know, women want sex too). It's absolutley normal.

Biologically speaking it is entirley possible for an 11 year old to be a "woman". So the argument that it isn't "normal" I think is faulty.

What is abnormal, is the lack of parenting which is being accepted in Western society, I believe a lot of that began with the feminist movement.

I am NOT equal to any man. I AM different. I am a better nurterer then a man, I am better prepared to care for a child in their younger formative years, I am better equipped to to take care of the basic needs of children. The man is NOT equal to any woman. he is diferent. He is a better provider than a woman, he is stronger, he is better prepared to protect children from physical harm.

When we stopped embracing our BIOLOGY our society took a turn for the worse. Instead of mothers telling daughters "you are a woman now" we have TV telling them. Instead of fathers telling their sons " you are a man now" we have rap stars tellng them.

We have allowed this to happen, we embraced feminism with good intentions, but it's now backfired on us, and I believe it's a serious threat to our society both culturally and economically.

But no one wants to listen, they are all to busy listening to the wise words of Lady Gaga, and buying Loreal products.

Having read most of this thread I could not agree more with what you are all saying. I have been a male feminist....if there is such a thing , for some time. Not to say that I don’t understand what I have as a man and feel overshadowed by my female peers. On the contrary I feel very much a part of the equal world and recognise the strengths that each sex brings to society, and how much more people can achieve when they come together in a relationship.
However, it is very disturbing that I feel the odd one out in the world. I was hoping that the great feminist movement would have led to a positive spiritual and sociological evolution, in the UK at least. Where women found and secured their place and men realised they had to catch up a little. But I can’t see its worked out all that well. Let me explain :
Media and Society Corruption of Female Values – Lots of the media , press and celebrity / music culture seems to have warped a woman’s identity. Many magazines I see on the shelf targeted at women focus heavily on how people look. They are obsessed with a wrinkle on someone’s leg or hand and practically demonise any women with any slight blemish. They are fixated to a perverse extreme about fashion, to the point where most women I know feel ashamed to wear anything but the latest lines and brands.
Again this media seems to obsess with highly dysfunctional, facile , shallow, moralistically void, intellectual vacant culture. And glamorise this lifestyle to such a point that young women then themselves mark their sense of wellbeing and value system based on this false sub-culture.
Shocking further still is the shear number of said media. My local supermarket is stacked floor to ceiling with Hello and Grazia and so on. All of which treat everyone and everything in a negative way, give a false impression of femininity . What is more shocking is that the owners and Editors of such media are more often than not female.
I have also still seen the lack of encouragement at schools. Boys are often given a host of clubs to attend , covering a wide range of adventure and sports. Whereas girls seem to have very few.
Also in the modern day world. Men are upheld as these aggressive dominant intellects and women are merely clutching at our shirt tales. There are many programmes about Business, Politics , Culture , History and so on which are mainly presented by men. But, to counter that , not many women feel they have the presence or character to stand out among men.
I have to say though women are their own worst enemy. You seem to encourage , promote things like celebrity sub-cultural fixation, women’s image and role in society. I often am witness to women being side tracked in my work place, often overlooked for promotion because they don’t want to stand out over men. Its very strange. I see men really pushing themselves at work, selling themselves (Even though in most cases the effort to sell often out ways what they can actually deliver) and get promoted, or get that position in front of the cameras.
It once got to the stage with me where I thought that there was a fundamental difference between men and women, and that women did not really want to push themselves and grow in life and intellect. Only because I was witness to countless occasions where women seem to lose the will to push about ½ way through the fight, whereas the male counter parts continued and often succeeded. I saw the top musicians, authors, teachers, lecturers, heads of schools and universities, business leaders, politicians, sporting personalities, comedians...in fact pretty much every walk of life you could think of, always seem to have men at the top who exceeded and succeeded in their roles.....not women. I still think though now, after more research and soul searching, that women are made to feel less than everything else still. Which has a MASS impact across everyone in terms of motivations and drive.
Cont...

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus

cont...
I for one would love to see a Mrs Sugar, or Ms Branson equivalent and lots more women adding to the cultural and intellectual evolution of the world. My advice to all women is ACTIVELY rebuke popular celeb culture, actively control what your young children are exposed to. Make a stand against these false cultures. And push as hard as men do....don’t shy away from a fight just because you think you will be overlooked by a man. Men are like bulls, they keep going even if they are losing. Women need to do the same. Screw what over people think. Switch off Big Brother, put that Hello mag in the bin and pick up a good science book and push. Competitively , Motivation and Drive are not exclusive male attributes.

Originally posted by Merigold

“pop-culture” has convinced women that they want men for sex

Biology ensures that women want men for sex.

Most of the behaviours that are listed here, are behaviours that have their roots in biology. The media, with our compliance, has used this fact to their advantage of course, and we have bought it hook line and sinker.

I am a woman and I DO want to be sexy, in fact, it's an uncontrollable urge. As I get older, the urge is stronger, I have not had children, my body is working overtime to ensure that reproduction takes place, so my sex drive is up ( shocking I know, women want sex too). It's absolutley normal.

Biologically speaking it is entirley possible for an 11 year old to be a "woman". So the argument that it isn't "normal" I think is faulty.

What is abnormal, is the lack of parenting which is being accepted in Western society, I believe a lot of that began with the feminist movement.

I am NOT equal to any man. I AM different. I am a better nurterer then a man, I am better prepared to care for a child in their younger formative years, I am better equipped to to take care of the basic needs of children. The man is NOT equal to any woman. he is diferent. He is a better provider than a woman, he is stronger, he is better prepared to protect children from physical harm.

When we stopped embracing our BIOLOGY our society took a turn for the worse. Instead of mothers telling daughters "you are a woman now" we have TV telling them. Instead of fathers telling their sons " you are a man now" we have rap stars tellng them.

We have allowed this to happen, we embraced feminism with good intentions, but it's now backfired on us, and I believe it's a serious threat to our society both culturally and economically.

But no one wants to listen, they are all to busy listening to the wise words of Lady Gaga, and buying Loreal products.

Man can nurture a child aswell as a woman does,i find your comments sexist,along time ago what you say was undoubtfully the truth but in todays world you are wrong,men are taking on the role of the lead parent in todays world,i was the one who looked after my children fulltime from when they were born,my parntner wanted to go back to work,this doesnt make her a bad mother,but it certainly made me a better parent and person looking after my children who might i add are doing extremely well,its a shame my partner isnt a member on here because im sure that she would argue that men are just as good at bringing up children as females are.Your just stating the "status quo" of how we as sexes should behave.


Regards to all

Regards to all

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus


Well said,i couldnt agree more

reply to post by Merigold

You are proof that real women do in fact exist. I am even shcocked that you are from the UK! Wonders, the wonders..

The UK elections have been dominated by men in suits. It's almost as though they have forgotten 50% of the electorate were women, yet I have witnessed little to no female representation throughout the campaigns.

sad state of affairs,

But you will have people on here claiming that white middle class men are now the most oppressed group in society

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


Perhaps you could turn your sights on the media as having an influence? I see no great wonder in this. You have seen what comes into the house via the telescreen?

Case closed.

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent

Man can nurture a child aswell as a woman does,

You misunderstand me. Of course a man CAN nurture a child. However a a woman's biology ( this is the part we have no control over) gives her an edge. Let me put it like this, who can nurture a baby more? Clearly the woman who can feed the baby ( via her breasts) is placed in a superior postion over a man who does not have breasts with which to nurture. This is not s sexsist comment or idea, this is just a cold hard biological fact.

A woman can protect a child, but a man has a physical edge over a woman , he is stronger and larger. Again, not saying a woman isn't "good" at protecting her children, or wouldn't protect them, It is just the way we have evolved over millions of years.

I am a woman and I embrace this FACT.

Originally posted by Merigold
reply to post by FeatheredSerpent

 

Man can nurture a child aswell as a woman does,

You misunderstand me. Of course a man CAN nurture a child. However a a woman's biology ( this is the part we have no control over) gives her an edge. Let me put it like this, who can nurture a baby more? Clearly the woman who can feed the baby ( via her breasts) is placed in a superior postion over a man who does not have breasts with which to nurture. This is not s sexsist comment or idea, this is just a cold hard biological fact.

A woman can protect a child, but a man has a physical edge over a woman , he is stronger and larger. Again, not saying a woman isn't "good" at protecting her children, or wouldn't protect them, It is just the way we have evolved over millions of years.

I am a woman and I embrace this FACT.

what about the women that reject there children and sometimes even kill them down to PND? not all women are in a superior postion over men and men can and do the same job as breasts with a bottle,for me your argument doesnt stand in todays world,majority of females now use dry milk and dont even feed from the breast.

Regards to all

Originally posted by Merigold

“pop-culture” has convinced women that they want men for sex

Biology ensures that women want men for sex.

Most of the behaviours that are listed here, are behaviours that have their roots in biology. The media, with our compliance, has used this fact to their advantage of course, and we have bought it hook line and sinker.

I am a woman and I DO want to be sexy, in fact, it's an uncontrollable urge. As I get older, the urge is stronger, I have not had children, my body is working overtime to ensure that reproduction takes place, so my sex drive is up ( shocking I know, women want sex too). It's absolutley normal.

Biologically speaking it is entirley possible for an 11 year old to be a "woman". So the argument that it isn't "normal" I think isttr faulty.

What is abnormal, is the lack of parenting which is being accepted in Western society, I believe a lot of that began with the feminist movement.

I am NOT equal to any man. I AM different. I am a better nurterer then a man, I am better prepared to care for a child in their younger formative years, I am better equipped to to take care of the basic needs of children. The man is NOT equal to any woman. he is diferent. He is a better provider than a woman, he is stronger, he is better prepared to protect children from physical harm.

When we stopped embracing our BIOLOGY our society took a turn for the worse. Instead of mothers telling daughters "you are a woman now" we have TV telling them. Instead of fathers telling their sons " you are a man now" we have rap stars tellng them.

We have allowed this to happen, we embraced feminism with good intentions, but it's now backfired on us, and I believe it's a serious threat to our society both culturally and economically.

But no one wants to listen, they are all to busy listening to the wise words of Lady Gaga, and buying Loreal products.

Headstrong, self-knowing, honest that is the essence of feminism. You are amazing. I am quite literally in awe. I'd ask you out right now if you didn't live in the uk . This is one of the most intelligent, well informed, thoughtful comments I have read on ATS. Wow, just wow. You have seen right through the BS of every issue involved.

Parents do share the main burden of responsibility. But it is peoples accepting and propogation of the TPTB adgenda that allows this to happen.

Now you need two full-time college educated incomes to barely raise a family of four.

People are working 10 hour days 6 days a week. all While consuming poison, propaganda, and adding distractions.

They have broken the family structure. Modern life is so full of garbage that people don't have the energy, ability, nor understanding to so the right thing.

The level of understanding the whole agenda must rise to a point where people toss off these shackles in favor of real critical thinking. Until that time women and men will play the perspective roles imposed upon them. But the fact that more people are waking to the ignorance warms my heart.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by ISHAMAGI]

Women and their position in the modern world has always been a puzzlement for me.

Some of the puzzling issues:

1. Why everyone seems to have an opinion on the way that all women should live. You just don't often hear anything that entails the differences between women. They are clumped into a group, and either they should keep their behinds in the kitchen or they should all be at work, or they should all...etc.

2. How feminism is now the first thing a woman denounces when she sticks up for herself. "I'm not a feminist or anything, and I know women are different from men, but... " is the number one sentence I seem to hear from women when they are upset about something, but don't want to annoy anyone by being upset.

3. Why women are surprised that their daughters are more and more sexually transparent while the same women talk about how they like to go to strip clubs with their boyfriends. Okay, so this isn't all women, but it is something I have personally encountered, and I thought wtf? You wonder why young girls act like this, yet when they are standing in the background you talk about going to strip clubs with your boyfriend because you are so totally not-a-feminist and cool.

4. ...

Okay, there are way to many things about women that puzzle me way too much. If I had daughters, I have no idea what I would do. I don't want to preach to them how different they are, because if you look around right now, different seems to suggest they get to be one of two options: 1)asinine sex-crazed women that will do anything to get the attention of the opposite gender, or 2) exhausted, overworked women that will do anything to prove that they are not 1).

To the OP, you sound like an amazing dad in that you have considered this at all, and I can only assume that if you talk about this with your daughters as they get older, then you just may find that they will listen to you, think about it as well, and perhaps turn out to be level-headed, smart women that are aware of how things are, yet won't let that stop them from figuring out what they want to be, not what everyone else wants them to be. (And, I'm sure that they will realize, as they look around at their friends, how lucky they are to have a dad that cares about how his daughters will turn out.)

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


The examples you give are not based on biology. Of course there are bad mothers. My argument is simply that nature has given women the best tools to be mothers.

Can a man raise and nurture a child? Of course he can, and there are many examples where this has happened. It is NOT wrong for a man to be the main caregiver, I am not against this, hey whatever works.

However you cannot argue that women are not better suited, through millions of years of evolution to be the nurturer.

As for breast feeding, it IS better for a child to be breast fed there can be no argument on this, ergo a woman is the better prepared to be the nurturer.

I respect any man who takes on the job of the main nurterer for he will have a more difficult time taking on a job for which he has not evolved.

Do you ever wonder why society ( mainly in the west) has gone into the cultural gutter? Could the rise of feminism correlate with the fall in societal cohesion? I think there is a direct correlation myself.

As a woman I absolutley agree that a woman should have a choice. Feminsim has gone too far though, now we increasingly do NOT have choice. Now we are expected to have a career, a social life, AND a family. Our children are raised by strangers so we can "have it all". Then we bemoan why "fill in any crappy celebrity's name here" has such an influence on our children's lives.

Kudos to the OP for staying at home with his children, however I stand by my argument that a woman is better suited to do so.

Originally posted by Merigold
reply to post by FeatheredSerpent

 

The examples you give are not based on biology. Of course there are bad mothers. My argument is simply that nature has given women the best tools to be mothers.

Can a man raise and nurture a child? Of course he can, and there are many examples where this has happened. It is NOT wrong for a man to be the main caregiver, I am not against this, hey whatever works.

However you cannot argue that women are not better suited, through millions of years of evolution to be the nurturer.

As for breast feeding, it IS better for a child to be breast fed there can be no argument on this, ergo a woman is the better prepared to be the nurturer.

I respect any man who takes on the job of the main nurterer for he will have a more difficult time taking on a job for which he has not evolved.

Do you ever wonder why society ( mainly in the west) has gone into the cultural gutter? Could the rise of feminism correlate with the fall in societal cohesion? I think there is a direct correlation myself.

As a woman I absolutley agree that a woman should have a choice. Feminsim has gone too far though, now we increasingly do NOT have choice. Now we are expected to have a career, a social life, AND a family. Our children are raised by strangers so we can "have it all". Then we bemoan why "fill in any crappy celebrity's name here" has such an influence on our children's lives.

Kudos to the OP for staying at home with his children, however I stand by my argument that a woman is better suited to do so.

My original post wasnt aimed at the biology of females,i dont argue that women are better equipped physically.I didnt want a debate on which of the sexes is a better parent,this is not what my thread is about and my "difficult job" i wouldnt give it up for the world.

Regards to all


[edit on 02/05/10 by FeatheredSerpent]

Ough ... will there be any princes for zedd? Hardly. What can I offer? Really tiny peace of land, generosity ... Husband is crazy (TM) and believe at all that nasty conspiracies. He is crazy (TM).
That is me!
I educated one girl to be a human --- I have no power to do it for other women just now. I'm bit exhausted. But I have good feeling that I did it!. My remark may sound very sexist: But: many young ladies do not care about politics/economy/wargames. My ex partner is fully aware of these things and this is f... success! Another soul escaped Doll house .
What is my great success? She is living her live with critical viewpoint. Without her family (mother) it will not be possible. After 10 years I'm ashamed that I lost this girl.

Sorry - it should go to "gray" area probably

Also I'm sorry for statement:"I educated one girl to be a human". It is bad statement but quite instructive. For sure it was goal at the time. Marx is not bad, Marx is philosopher as any other philosopher is. Analytical philosophy is not easy and continental philosophy is f... difficult.

To cut it short: I do not want f... doll, I want real women with real notion of world. I'm looking for partner, not for sex toy or other .... bla

I have no idea how to fix a problem of this calibre. It saddens me to see the greater of both sexes diminished to such a circus. I wish woman were in charge. We would be backing up our rules and we would be destroying the evils or at least having a different system altogether. People would not be going to jail but instead have exclusive teachers to repair their problems and help them and try to find the problem that made the person commit the crime.

We have such a horrible practice at life today and it should be cleaned up immediately. People ought to have everything they need to survive and the right to do whatever they want instead of being born and trained into bondage.

Wow freaking 11 and her mother aproves, well whatever as long as they have the means to take care of the child both of them. But ya this feminist propaganda, and feminization of men has to stop, it dont matter who provides male or female whatever works but if you have the means one has to watch and teach these kids something, before the consumer marketing machine teaches them what they should be like and think like, and what products they need.