Unusual Apollo pics, video and transcripts

Originally posted by ppk55(and isn't that engine nozzle extension just a little too close to the ground?)

From the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal:

"119:57:14 Scott: Tell the Program Manager (Jim McDivitt) I guess I got his engine bell. (Laughs) It's a little rise right under the center of the LM. The rear leg's in a crater and the rim of the crater is right underneath the engine bell. (Pause)

[An enhanced detail 2.7Mb ) by Kipp Teague of AS15-88-11882, which Dave takes at 167:01:07, shows the damaged engine bell.]
[Scott - "We had a heavier LM, with an engine that had a large bell. And we were told that, if we didn't shut the engine down before the bell contacted the ground, the bell would split and who knew what would happen. So one of our challenges was to get the engine off before the bell split. In fact, Jim McDivitt, the Program Manager bet me we couldn't do it. So Jim (Irwin) and I practiced that, only because it was a challenge. 'When the blue light goes on, tell me contact, and I'll get the sucker off. And I will also make sure I don't push the wrong button.' Because we had three buttons. One was abort. That was the red one. It was the blue one that shut the engine down. And you want to make sure you push the right button at the right time. You pay attention to that. Nevertheless, it was important to get the engine off immediately when we got to the point we knew we were down. So that changed some of our thinking, procedurally, in terms of what we did. It didn't change the mechanics of the procedures, but it did change the awareness of what we were trying to do."]"

So?

Originally posted by ppk55
What has happened to the top part of the engine?

At first I thought it could be the kapton foil reflecting the ground, however some of the gold colour would still show, so it's not that.

It's a silvery reflective foil (Nickel foil I think?). You can see it in this image behind the UV telescope here: AS16-116-18581

Originally posted by ppk55
Now here is another strange pic ...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ecb8ec3fc870.jpg[/atsimg]

What has happened to the top part of the engine?

Originally posted by nataylor
That's part of the thermal protection. There was a cover that folded down at the bottom of the LRV as it was mounted on the LM

Isn't there a problem here? This photo shows a LRV that hasn't been deployed yet.
The tray that holds the rover is still folded up. You can see the gold kapton foil. It hasn't yet been lowered.

Everything is still encased behind the gold foil.

But according to the lunar surface journal, the rover HAS been deployed. Apparently the rover is just out of shot.

If the deployment tray for the rover hasn't been lowered, then how can the area in question be the thermal shield?

what held the pole up ad how far down (deep) does it extend?

reply to post by ppk55


Here, ppk, look at the whole photo:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/173e92e0c8af.jpg[/atsimg]

Notice how far away the LM looks? Is it possible that the reason you can't see the LRV is that they were on it, driving away from the LM? And that the stuff you see hanging down on the far side of the LM was the stuff the LRV was packed in?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by ppk55

 

Here, ppk, look at the whole photo:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/173e92e0c8af.jpg[/atsimg]

Notice how far away the LM looks? Is it possible that the reason you can't see the LRV is that they were on it, driving away from the LM? And that the stuff you see hanging down on the far side of the LM was the stuff the LRV was packed in?

they drove but the ground shows footprints?

Originally posted by DJW001
that the stuff you see hanging down on the far side of the LM was the stuff the LRV was packed in?

Ok, can we get some sort of consensus about which side the LRV was unpacked from, because this will impact this whole discussion. You're saying left, others are saying right of the hatch. Which is it people ?

From the video Nat posted it looks like the LRV was unpacked from the right side of the hatch.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5ee4db21dc7e.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by ppk55

Ok, can we get some sort of consensus about which side the LRV was unpacked from, because this will impact this whole discussion. You're saying left, others are saying right of the hatch. Which is it people ?

We are in agreement. There was a layer of foil between the LRV and the descent stage to prevent over-heating when the LRV was off loaded. That's why the foil appears undisturbed. What you seem to think is the descent stage nozzle is the platform the LRV was unfolded from. On the far side of the LM you can see a pile of packing material. Is it possible you can't see the tracks because this picture is taken sideways?

Originally posted by ppk55
Isn't there a problem here? This photo shows a LRV that hasn't been deployed yet.
The tray that holds the rover is still folded up. You can see the gold kapton foil. It hasn't yet been lowered.

No, the LRV has been deployed. This is how the LRV was mounted to the LM:



Notice the gold film goes behind the LRV. Once the LRV is lowered, you'd see the Kapton film behind it.

When the LRV has been deployed, all that remains is the "saddle," which is that ladder-like frame the LRV was attached to, and the insulation blanket, which is the silver thing the green arrows point to here:

Originally posted by ppk55
Ok, can we get some sort of consensus about which side the LRV was unpacked from, because this will impact this whole discussion. You're saying left, others are saying right of the hatch. Which is it people ?

The LRV was always in Quad I.

reply to post by nataylor


Oh My Gosh!!!!!!

Didn't I post a version of that SAME diagram already (for the benefit of ppk55)???

AND, as nataylor correctly pointed out.....IF the LRV were still undeployed, it would be seen hanging out on the side of the Descent Stage.

However, in any event.....the number reference for that photo that ppk55 used?? It is dead simple to reference it from the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal records and transcripts, to find the MET when the photo was taken. THEN, you can compare to the mission profile, and the transcripts, to see WHEN the LRV was actually deployed.


ppk55....why don't YOU DO THIS, please? Instead of me doing all of the leg-work for you??? You may learn something.....

From AS16-116-18581:



You can see the reflective inside of the insulation blanket (green arrow), the velcro pull tabs (blue arrows) used to detach the blanket from the bottom of the LRV, as well as the saddle (red arrows), behind the UV camera:

Originally posted by DJW001
the stuff you see hanging down on the far side of the LM was the stuff the LRV was packed in?

Can you point out exactly where this "stuff" is? "hanging down on the far side of the LM was the stuff the LRV was packed in?" Far side is a little ambiguous.

reply to post by ppk55


I tried to use simple words. The stuff to the left. (It's probably the packing material of the MESA, not the LRV.)

Originally posted by DJW001
What you seem to think is the descent stage nozzle is the platform the LRV was unfolded from.

Really? Are you seriously suggesting this is NOT an engine nozzle? Come on.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e513fc559e23.jpg[/atsimg]

Whilst I do more investigating into this strange photo, here's another one that is very peculiar.

In AS17-143-21856 it appears a rock has somehow appeared on top of the lrv fender.
I just put this one down to bad image tampering.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e280d8209753.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is the wide shot.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cc55ce14fe73.jpg[/atsimg]

Source: history.nasa.gov...

reply to post by ppk55


That is an optical illusion caused by the lips on the wheel cover.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
That is an optical illusion caused by the lips on the wheel cover.

Exhuberant, you could be right. I'm 50/50 with this one ... I'm not sure the fender furthest away should be 'eaten into' that much by the rock.

I've found one more image that's interesting. It's AS15-85-11470. It seems to show the astro's face. This is after I lightened it in photoshop.

Looks a little strange, what's up with that nose, if it is one.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d923f68b0af7.jpg[/atsimg]

source: history.nasa.gov...

reply to post by ppk55


?????

What?? I see a helmet visor that is a CONVEX reflective surface, and is mirroring (and resulting distortion, due to the convex shape) the environment around it. Objects, terrain.....reflected.

How difficult is this to understand???

Originally posted by weedwhacker
and is mirroring (and resulting distortion, due to the convex shape) the environment around it. Objects, terrain.....reflected.
How difficult is this to understand???

Really. I never would have thought that it might be reflecting other objects. Thanks for that little lesson.

What I was pointing out was how the reflection looked a bit like a face. It puzzled me, because the objects reflected in the visor do not match the pan taken at the end of EVA2.

Here is the pan...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f97115ed930b.jpg[/atsimg]

So in the below image, what is being reflected ?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c990e7346ac4.jpg[/atsimg]

pan source: www.hq.nasa.gov...

reply to post by ppk55


"what's being reflected"??

Man, the dude is sitting in the LRV.....much of the reflection is of THAT machine. You can see the horizon, too.

Your cropped image gives a false impression....one that is clear once the FULL picture is looked at, in context: