Mexicans have every right to be in California, and some other states

reply to post by beyondsense


You can basically apply your logic to every country in the world. Borders have been move all over the place from wars and disagreements. You might as well say that all borders should be erased and maybe one day they will, but today they are recognized and respected by every nation in the world, why should the US southern borders be any different? Lines have been drawn and well established for a very long time now.

"In 1848, at the conclusion of the U.S.- Mexican War, the two countries signed the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo. The treaty called for Mexico to give up almost half of its territory, which included modern-day California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and parts of Colorado, Nevada, and Utah. In return, the U.S. paid $15 million in compensation for war-related damage to Mexican land.

Among the notable aspects of the treaty, it set the Texas border at the Rio Grande; it provided for the protection of the property and civil rights of Mexican nationals who would now be living on U.S. soil; the United States agreed to police its side of the border; and both countries agreed to compulsory arbitration of future disputes. However, when the United States Senate ratified the treaty, it erased Article 10, which guaranteed the protection of Mexican land grants; Article 9, which deals with citizenship rights, was also weakened. This in turn created an anti-Mexican atmosphere that spurred the violation of their civil rights. In Texas, Mexicans were restricted from voting. In New Mexico, Mexicans were the victims of violence, while in California, laws against them were passed, some of which were known as the Greaser Laws.

At the time of the treaty, approximately 80,000 Mexicans lived in the ceded territory, which comprised only about 4 percent of Mexico’s population. Only a few people chose to remain Mexican citizens compared to the many that became United States citizens. Most of the 80,000 residents continued to live in the Southwest, believing in the guarantee that their property and civil rights would be protected. Sadly, this would not always be the case. By the end of the 19th century, most Mexicans had lost their land, either through force or fraud.

In the Chicano movement in the late 1960s, New Mexico land rights leader Reies Lopez Tijerina and his Alianza movement cited the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in their fight to regain American-seized Mexican land. In 1972, the Brown Berets youth organization also cited the treaty in their takeover of Catalina Island.

In terms of property ownership, many property rights existing under Spanish and Mexican land grants were not recognized by the United States. In California, approximately 27 percent of land grant claims were rejected; in the territory of New Mexico, some 76 percent of such claims were rejected." - www.pbs.org...

Take that all you ignorant people who keep posting in these forms. Learn before you speak. I agree that the issue is old and needs to be dropped but you guys need to stop acting like all was fair. The land was robbed. They weren't even paid for the freckin land like a bunch of you no nothings are posting, they were paid for damage done to Mexican land! ha ha ha ha freggin ha.

My ancestors fought and defeated the Mexicans for Texan independence. We have no problem doing it again if we have to.

Just try it.

reply to post by conspiracy88


Again, what do WE have to do with it. 160 years ago not one person alive today could have experienced it or had anything to do with it. Should we have to pay for our long lost ancestors sins? I say no. Now on that question, what say you?

reply to post by conspiracy88



Yep, you know how to copy and paste. It's a shame you didn't give proper copy right details and links to the source. Just more abuse of ATS code of conduct.

Originally posted by Enigami
reply to post by DeathShield

 

You should feel sorry for all people of the earth....they bleed red breath air like you do. This makes me sick to hear so many people on this thread just reply with an "oh well, not our problem". .

Actually I never said it wasn't my problem. What's stupid is one state having to stand up and do the job the Federal government should be doing. But you know why the Feds, won't do anything? It's simply because they don't want to take the B.S. that Arizona is.

It is my problem and your problem, and something needs to be done about it.
The number one thing is to get this stupid Government out of office and put in new congressmen and senators that will focus on the problems at home instead of saving banks that deserve to fail.

The number two thing is to get this socialist butt kissing dictator out of office and put somebody in his place that believe's America comes first.

The number three thing is this country needs to quit bowing to other governments like Mexico, and tell them to control their side of the river or we will.

And, NO! Everybody doesn't have the right to just go where they want too.
This is America, We don't need anymore carbombers, base shootings and under-ware bombers.

This is asinine. There are laws against them being here without going through the required processes. So NO, they DO NOT have the RIGHT to be here. Grow a sack.

Idaho isn't one of them.
Go there and see what I mean.

Originally posted by conspiracy88
The land was robbed. They weren't even paid for the freckin land like a bunch of you no nothings are posting, they were paid for damage done to Mexican land! ha ha ha ha freggin ha.

I guess you can say that by todays standards and views, but back then things were rather different to say the least.

reply to post by ventian


It appears that either the OP abandoned his thread or possibly switched user IDs. I suspect, from the tone of his other posts, that he certainly would expect the US to pay restitution to the illegals. There is a Western country that has- or maybe still is paying damages to that country's "victims". That could be the precedent in his mind.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Not really. If you're really asserting that if this was done today it wouldn't be considered robbery and fraud then idk what to say bc nothing will clearly work. Or vice versa. As far as I know, robbery and fraud have always been the same throughout the years.


Another one for all you ignorant Mexico haters. You guys seem to forget that Texas was colonized by American immigrants who entered Mexico illegally. For that, I give you this:

"The National Colonization Law of August 18, 1824 failed to prohibit slavery and allowed Anglo-American immigration but favored Mexican immigrants from the south, soldiers and nomadic Texas tribes by giving them priority in acquiring land. Between 1821 and 1835, forty-one land contracts permitted 13,500 families, mostly Anglo-Americans, to settle in Texas. Stephen F. Austin received one of the first grants to establish a colony in Texas on August 1823. Two thousand settlers settled in the new colony that stretched from the east coast of Texas to La Grange. Green DeWitt established a colony centered at Gonzalez. Another colony to the southeast of Austin's colony belonged to Martín de León. By 1828, Austin had signed four contracts to settle 1200 families in Texas.

Anglos also entered Texas illegally, fleeing from the law or debts in the United States, and hoping for a new start.

With a growing Anglo-American population and their increasing resistance to Mexican authority, Mexico passed the Law of April 6, 1830. It declared incomplete land contracts void, and only allowed immigration to colonies that already held a hundred families, such as Austin's colony. Future Anglo-American immigrants were forbidden to settle near U.S. borders. More presidios were established to prevent illegal immigration. The law also banned the additional importation of slaves into Texas and began taxing imports.

New immigration continued under old contracts. James McGloin and John McCullen acquired contracts they made in the late 1820s. They brought several Irish families to Texas and found San Patricio in 1831. Other colonists, James Power and James Hewetson, established a settlement at modern-day Refugio. The Galveston Bay and Texas Land Company, a speculating company representing Vehlein, Burnet and de Zavala, continued to advertise land in Texas and sold illegal land contracts. Several European families immigrated to Texas with these land contracts and were allowed to stay because of their nationalities.

Anglos also became involved in smuggling, bringing goods like corn, meats and timber, into Texas and shipping the products south into Mexico or to New Mexico, further deteriorating relations with Mexican authorities.

Several conventions asked for the repeal of the Law of 1830, the abolishment of tariffs, and the establishment of Texas as an independent state from Coahuila, a neighboring state it was sharing representation with. Anglos would become the majority population in an independent Texas, increasing their power in the Mexican legislature and their demands for concessions. Mexican authorities instead decided to increase their military presence in Texas, to challenge these demands and suppress any rebellions. Anglo-American fear of military occupation quickly led to the Texas Revolution.

Mexico grew alarmed by the large population of Anglo-Americans in Texas, a state that was sparsely populated and far from Mexico City's control. Its close proximity to the United States increased Mexico's suspicions and the immigration policies were attempts to maintain a balance between Anglo-American and Mexican populations. Anglos could easily immigrate illegally because borders were not enforced or closely watched.

Ironically, the same problem occurs today with U.S. authorities trying to deter illegal immigration into Texas from Mexico. Texans are becoming aware of the increasing Hispanic population that will become the majority population in the future. Just like Anglo-Americans, the current Hispanic population will increase its demands for more representation and affect the state's focus to specific issues pertaining to the Hispanic community." www.houstonculture.org...

But of course this won't even be enough. You guys use it to your advantage when it suits your ignorant and arrogant purposes and dispose of anything that contradicts your guys conceived notions of reality. I hope I awakened some of you guys to see that this has gone both ways. I'm not advocating turning the land back to Mexico and don't think it should. It's been way too long and these states have clearly established themselves as part of our republic. I just hope that you guys will see that you're not right in your assertions and the only way to fix this problem is to work together. I think we're all against illegal immigration, whites and legal hispanics, and that's what we need to fix. Race needs to be taken out of the equation though because as I've shown, both sides have played the same role.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by conspiracy88]

And we took it...
It's called expansionism buddy

We own it now, you're being weak.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves. -John Wayne

So a thread made by an Atzlan/La Raza/Plan of San Diego extremist uh?

It was bound to happen. Racists extremists living in their little world know how to write too. And they have internet too.

At least people are not praising the OP for his crazy beliefs. If Mexico is so great, why don't you stay there? Hint : It's not great. It's crappy. It's run by thugs and there's a civil war going on. Sorry but North America doesn't want to become like that.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
And we took it...
It's called expansionism buddy

We own it now, you're being weak.

You don't own anything. The government owns it. Your the epitome of weak for believing you own anything.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
So a thread made by an Atzlan/La Raza/Plan of San Diego extremist uh?

It was bound to happen. Racists extremists living in their little world know how to write too. And they have internet too.

At least people are not praising the OP for his crazy beliefs.

If Mexico is so great, why don't you stay there? Hint : It's not great. It's crappy. It's run by thugs and there's a civil war going on. Sorry but North America doesn't want to become like that.

The US is better...? The government here is just as corrupt as Mexico's and if you think otherwise then you're ignorant beyond all doubt. Last I checked, Mexico was part of North America. So guess what, it's already here.

The basics for those of you who are misinformed.

en.wikipedia.org... - Mexican Cession

you should also read

en.wikipedia.org... - Gadsden Purchase


I know, i know, wikipedia.. at least its a start for a few of the folks here.

Druidae

*edit to tag links

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Druidae]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
So a thread made by an Atzlan/La Raza/Plan of San Diego extremist uh?

Yea....about like a skinhead. What makes these and not others qualifed for exclusion in this society? Above the laws?

Look at Mehico. The land of cardboard houses, cops on the take, criminals
are capable of overthrowing the govt. constently. Your children if lucky
enough to have parents with any money at all, have to wonder if they will make it home from school, or be kidnapped for some pesos. The water
tastes like it just washed over a tird.

The best part is it's citizens. Viva la Mehico! Skippin cross the border into a better country by far.

Standing in line behind a Chicano one day in Jack in the box. He turned around and looked at me. To my utter amazement he said this.

"I have to say this to someone and it might as well be you homes.
You White people, sure know how to make a damn good country.
I love the USA".

I only needed a split second to retort.
"And the USA loves people who appreciate that fact".

That is the most honest thing I ever heard any stranger say.
And he was a Mexican American..


[edit on 10-5-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by conspiracy88


Well they are better. For now. At least it's not full civil war and the cops are not as corrupt EVERYWHERE as in Mexico... but we're getting there, that's for sure.

Thing is, the US have something to go back to, an excellent constitution. Mexicans have nothing.