Maybe the largest conspiracy yet to come.

I know this thread will bring all the Bible haters out in arms but I'm going to start it anyway. I would ask the non-believers to give me a break on this one so opinions can be given without ridicule.

The Baptist and several other Christian denominations believe that we "Christians will some day soon be called out of this world in a "rapture". And most Christians that study the subject believe that it is coming very soon.

1st Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Ok with that verse being the description of the rapture we then have this verse:

2nd Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Now these two verse's point to two different event's that happen at roughly the same time. It is the viewpoint of most rapture believing the Christians that the delusion comes directly after the rapture.

Here's my question: When this event "the rapture" occurs, how is anyone going to not understand that it was only the Christians who are gone? I think it has everything to do with the "strong delusion".
Here's my second and final question: What do you guys think that strong delusion may be? Is it disclosure of the ufo's?

Evidently it will be convincing because the passage says that they should believe a lie.

Are we getting disinformation from Hawking to cover up what's about to happen?

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Loken68]

I'm a believer so I will try to answer your questions...

Here's my question: When this event "the rapture" occurs, how is anyone going to not understand that it was only the Christians who are gone?

No one knows when the return of Christ will be... "the Rapture... " but Jesus made it very clear that whoever doesn't believe in Him will not have everlasting life! John 3:16 I personally think when the Rapture happens.. there will be so much chaos on Earth that I don't think anyone would notice the Christians were all gone.

I think it has everything to do with the "strong delusion".
Here's my second and final question: What do you guys think that strong delusion may be? Is it disclosure of the ufo's?

The delusion... sometimes when reading scripture... you have to read the whole context...

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

I think you will find your answer in Verse 12. I read this as.. once Christ has his followers.. he sends DELUSION so people will remain in their wicked ways and not be able to ask for forgiveness.

This is harsh scripture but true... thank you for bringing it to my attention!

reply to post by biblenet



I understand the delusion. But what will it be that makes the world believe a lie about all the christians suddenly leaving? This is going to be the biggest event in history, the delusion has to be equally huge to cover it up or make the populace believe a lie.

reply to post by Loken68


This is a great question. I can only offer an opinion like everyone else here. I must preface with, I believe the bible to be an authentic work from GOD. I do not believe that it is interpreted by religious institutions correctly. Religious institutions think GOD is concerned about physical things you do, where I think GOD is concerned with the mindset that allows you to do those physical things.

That said if there is to be a rapture, the dead in christ would be called up first. Many believe that the dead in christ are actually the dead people from years past. When I believe the dead in christ are those that have no love in their heart. The alive in christ are those that love and seek truth. This isn't a physical event it is a spiritual event in my opinion.

Assuming it's a physical event then the whole alien thing seems highly probable. Aliens descend making their presence known. They come in peace and love, our governments tell us to go to war with them that they are here to overthrow the government and take over the world. Those that harbor hate in their heart will gladly pick up a gun and go after these other beings who actually mean them no harm. The delusion may like you have said be spreading now. There is biblical reference that when god does appear, the nations will rise against him. Why? Because the nations are controlled by the anti-christ. Again the anti-christ in my opinion isn't some guy we will be able to identify it is a system of control that we are fooled to worship...that will promise peace, and deliver war...that will promise wealth and deliver poverty, etc. Sounds like our current system of status quo to me.

That's too bad. Are you sure some sort of technicality can't be worked up so that the Muslims, Jews, Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons and Scientologists can qualify as well? It would make for a much more peaceful world for those of us who are happy to be rid of all that religious nonsense. Kthxbai!!!

Like a lot of scripture in the bible, I don't think it's meant to be taken literally, but symbolically.

I have come to the conclusion that 'The Rapture' is a symbolic statement for the expansion of our consciousness or an awakening of our inner divinity. The time in which we can demonstrate our Soul in our everyday life. When we can be 'Christ-like' in how we relate to each other and the planet, when we rebuild our political, economic, and social structure that allow our inner divinity to shine. 'Heaven on Earth' if you want to use that term.

We are living the delusion or lie now. At present our social, political and economic structures only serve to separate and divide us, to keep us from realizing our own spiritual nature. We are too busy trying to stay afloat, pay the bills, too busy competing with each other, fearing or condemning one another, getting addicted to earthly pleasures to avoid the pain and frustration of our seeming empty lives. As a result we are on a treadmill to our self-destruction, unless we choose to rebuild our planet based on the divine principles of sharing, justice and brother and sisterhood.

the only "technicallity" is you can be muslim, jewish, mormon and JW as long as you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and ask for forgiveness of your sins.

I think the Delusion is also referring to the Anti-Christ who is in power here and is highly popular due to signs and wonders.

He will be so GOD LIKE... that only true believers will know the difference.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


"That said if there is to be a rapture, the dead in christ would be called up first. Many believe that the dead in christ are actually the dead people from years past. When I believe the dead in christ are those that have no love in their heart. The alive in christ are those that love and seek truth. This isn't a physical event it is a spiritual event in my opinion. "

I'm not very much into prophecy (thinking that we are not meant to understand, but focus on His teachings) but I had never looked at it this way. Now that you've said it, I think I would agree. Esp since those who have passed are "sleeping" rather than referred to as dead. (i guess semantics matter).

If Project Blue Beam or something like it is indeed true, I can imagine that s fitting with both a great deception and a "miracle" (contrived). I really have to wonder about the Norway spiral.
Considering how cynical and skeptical we are being made by our leaders, it's harder than ever to imagine Believers being taken in. God Seems to be actively exposing so many things as they happen.

Great questions, Loken!

Here's the thing. I haven't heard of any statistics claiming how many born again Christians there are. But lets just say tomorrow there are 80 to 100 million people missing, someones going to notice that and wonder why. Someone is going to do the math and figure out that the only ones missing are the church folk. The strong delusion is not the "lie". The strong delusion is what makes the people believe the lie. So the thing has to be either bigger than or close to the rapture event.

And that's my question What could cover an event of that magnitude.
What could the Government use to say: No that was not Jesus rapturing the saints it was_______________________.

ooooohhhhhhh....



I'm not sure if it would be the announcement of aliens... but I'm sure this Anti-Christ ruler would come up with something... probably along the lines of... "DO NOT FRET PEOPLE OF THE WORLD..." "What you see around you is only the delusion... once we get our NWO setup there will be world peace again and what you see around you will become normal once again."

reply to post by Loken68


Hey, great question. I've never researched this specific point.

This is the definition of delusion from Strong's Concordance:

NT:4106 planee, planees, hee,
a wandering, a straying about

I'm a pretribber so I think/hope we will be out of here before the wrath hits.

I'll research to try to pinpoint the delusion. Just off the top of my head, I think the delusion will be that they won't recognize the antichrist as a false god/prophet. They will fall for his lie that he is god.

Will check out though.

Peace

reply to post by Loken68


ohhhhh I don't see how that COULD be covered, but I have to wonder if tptb have been trying to create an event that might deceive people into thinking a Rapture has already- or is, occurring. We've had at least 3 waves of projected pandemics off the top of my head. (West Nile, Bird flu & Swine Flu) This isn't going to be so easy to accomplish (vaccines?) without putting themselves at risk (aerosols?)
Anyway, deceive people into thinking that the Rapture has passed & to give up hope- leading to a decline (Yikes! a decline from THIS?) & the temptation to turn away from God (thinking they've been forsaken).
I guess a "terror attack" is a possibility, but again, how to stay safe themselves.
That is a staggering number of people.

Is it possible that the Rapture could be an ongoing event, rather than en masse. It has struck me, lately, that so many very young people have passed not under situations like drugs or reckless lifestyles. It seems like an awful lot.

There is another scenario I see as possible or possibly connected/ enhancement, but I hesitate to put that out there because even though someone may trust the "wrong" guide, I believe that their personal relationship with God could certainly protect them from being drawn too far in the wrong direction. Hope that makes sense.

reply to post by xfiler


I think this person ^^^ is the closest to the truth.

It is important for all exoteric believers, which includes Christians and Muslims, to understand that "Rapture's" and "Revelations" hold the words ("secrets") that can lead to the path of finding what the truth is, but, since even before biblical times, it has been perverted, misinterpreted and/or distorted to the point that only the very few, most likely those in "secret societies" connected with these religions, who truly understand the how and why these words were written, can understand there true meaning.

If you study the origins of Religions and Theocracy you will see the many commonalities and realize that this form of belief only divides and confuses the general follower. It should also be known that many of the original teachings used by these Religions come from more ancient beliefs, such as from Buddhism, Hinduism, and back even further inside of other forms of more esoteric beliefs and was simply conformed to fit a specific group of people more so than to clearly teach the truth. This is not to say you should abandon your Religion, as like I said before it too holds the truth, but you should also not close your mind to the whole picture, dividing mankind even further apart.

I grew up as a Christian, now I am simply searching for knowledge and do not label myself as anything. Buddhist teachings have helped me begin to find the path and that is to expand my consciousness and search for pure knowledge. If I had to take a stab at "decoding" or deciphering the words of Christ's return, I would say it is not to be taken literally, but rather as the return of Christ like consciousness, like that of Buddha's and Muhammad's, although I doubt this will happen for the mass anytime soon. I believe this level of enlightenment is determined by set conditions and the amount of barriers place upon one, and in order to achieve this level of enlightenment one must have favorable conditions and limitless barriers.

Although I do believe we are headed into an era where more and more people, especially more in the west, will finally come to realization of this and begin to search for "God-like" enlightenment for themselves. Especially since as of recent, being the last 25-50 years, us in the west finally have access to a much clearer and purer form of these teachings.

Again, I think once the mass begin to realize this, we can keep all religions, as long as we do not take them literal to the point it divides us. Unfortunately, I also believe once this is accomplished, Religion will be only something we study and philosophize about as a subject like we do history.

Pzzz

Ok, I see your exact question now.

I think "The aliens took em" will be the medias story.

I just realized - that is going to pisseth off a lot of people that are left - "Why didn't I get to go with the aliens?"

I think different parts of the world will lose more people than others so many will not even notice we're gone until the story spreads. There may be a media blackout to keep it secret as long as possible.

I have a hard time believing the government already has a plan to break out the holograms or man made UFOs just for when the rapture happens - A pre-planned explanation for the rapture? They are really screwed up if they actually have a plan like that.

There will be many that will see us gone and realize the Bible was true after all and accept Jesus but will have to refuse the mark of the beast and be martyred in order to be saved.

There are so many esoteric responses in this thread.

YOU CAN AND SHOULD TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY.
GOD DID NOT LET HIS WORD FADE AWAY!!!

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
There are so many esoteric responses in this thread.

YOU CAN AND SHOULD TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY.
GOD DID NOT LET HIS WORD FADE AWAY!!!

I agree. Not the answers I was looking for. Well a few sound pretty good, But the guys and gals who believe in enlightenment are silly. Enlightenment is just another way of saying screw God's way I'm going to do it my way because I'm smarter than a book. I got a word for that "ignorance."

First of all the passage is literal, It's backed up several times almost identically. Again it's not a parable, it's not spiritual, its not figuartive. It is real, It's a promise of something great to come. Paul said "Behold I shew you a mystery"


[edit on 9-5-2010 by Loken68]

reply to post by Loken68


Yes, I have not believed in the Rapture since early nineties when it was taught many christian churches. Not in the one I grew up in. I grew up in United Penticostal. I have since been to various churches and found many good ones. The Rapture, when I first heard of it I was already grown and sturn in my beliefs, so, I always questioned it. I prayed for Father to show me the truth and with diligence, I believe he Told me. The key word is "remain" in both the old and new testament prophecies.

In Daniel 12, it clearly states in the last verses 11-13 talking about when the abomination (anti-christ) sets up his short lived kingdom in Jerusalem and cuts off the Daily Sacrifice. 11, And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be 1290 days. 12"Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 13 "But you, go your way till the end" for you shall rest, (speaking to Daniel), and will arise to your inheritance at the end of days.

In the New Testament, like you stated OP, it is said that the dead in Christ will rise first, then those of us which are alive and remain will be caught up to meet him in the air.

In Dan:12,12 it says those who 'wait' which would be those who 'remain' one and the same.

Then in verse 13 it clearly tell Daniel that He will rest(be dead in body) Untile the end.

Now the end of days isn't until 45 days after the reign of anti-christ. This is when Father told Daniel that he would rise. So, to me it makes clear sense comparing both parables from old and new testament being truth as His Word always has.

Show me different and we will talk.

Originally posted by Loken68
Here's the thing. I haven't heard of any statistics claiming how many born again Christians there are. But lets just say tomorrow there are 80 to 100 million people missing, someones going to notice that and wonder why. Someone is going to do the math and figure out that the only ones missing are the church folk. The strong delusion is not the "lie". The strong delusion is what makes the people believe the lie. So the thing has to be either bigger than or close to the rapture event.

And that's my question What could cover an event of that magnitude.
What could the Government use to say: No that was not Jesus rapturing the saints it was_______________________.

I also believe the rapture would be a physical event where millions of Christians would be taken from earth instantaneously.

I also believe that some people who are still being on earth, will realize that the rapture was the actual event that just took place. There is a couple of people, friends and family I have told about the rapture. They know the detail of the event, but some still choose not to choose Jesus, and I fear they will not be included in the rapture. It is matter of personal choice.

In my opinion, the delusion is already being present. The New World Order, and it's rulers who control the media, and the world economy. I think it is this same people, who would perfect the delusion after the rapture.

Only after the rapture can the Anti-Christ be revealed.

I agree with you, part of the delusion will be a full admission and disclosure by governments to tell the world that they knew all along about the aliens, and that the aliens are responsible in some way of the millions of people who have vanished. Or that they could assist the human race further on.

In my opinion, aliens are not really aliens. That is part of the delusion. I believe that aliens are actually demons, and of the fallen angels who rebelled against God with their leader Satan. I believe they can probably even have physical bodies. And people will belief they are beings from other worlds.

I think you are quite brave to post this, because the majority of people will ridicule your believes. Nevertheless a good post - thanks!

Instead of Delusion it meant Deluge? Maybe it was a bad translation which happens a lot. But me personally I don't think people are just going to just disappear on their own. It does not sound logical and it goes against the nature of God's laws. Here is what I believe will happen and I believe in the Planet X/ Nibiru theory:

First people will see a sign in the heavens with a star shinning bright like a cross. Then the cross becomes big and it shows to be a red comet-like. Before the coming of the days the elites will deceive the world before the coming of the comet. The Anunnaki beams up those who have a higher spiritual understanding and saves them from the Deluge that the come it brings. Seven days and Seven nights this comet will be seen (Mother shipton prophecy) and it will cause devastation. There will be some that fate decides to save for those that survive the deluge on the surface.


But I could go on but I just give you what I know probably could happen. I am just going by previous civilizations of what they have told. No specific religion is favored we are all human.




[edit on 9-5-2010 by dragnet53]

reply to post by assasinforfather


Yes even before the law or grace it is mentioned in the book Of Job 19:25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.