athiests! why christianity?

reply to post by faceoff85

the bible's moral teachings, like the 7 virtue's would prove a nice and respectfull way to live your life wouldn't it?

What in God's name are you talking about? Didn't you tell me your specialty was the bible? The 7 virtues were originally written down by Plato and Aristotle and then they written in an epic poem and the only virtues in Christianity are the four cardinal virtues in Catholicism.

Aye aye aye! *facepalm*

I love Christians who claim to know their bible!

I think christians tend to pick on athiests as well, and maybe more than other religions do.
I'm a christian, but wouldn't appreciate it if people tried to make me believer all the time....

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85

 

What in God's name are you talking about? Didn't you tell me your specialty was the bible? The 7 virtues were originally written down by Plato and Aristotle and then they written in an epic poem and the only virtues in Christianity are the four cardinal virtues in Catholicism.

Aye aye aye! *facepalm*

I love Christians who claim to know their bible!

hehehe... got me. what I meant was this Galatians. 5:22, 23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

reply to post by bigcountry08

Its because satin hates god and if you are a Christian then he hates you, and satin will use any tool he can to try and destroy Christians

Yes, its because SATIN hates God

What's it like to live in a fantasy world where a dark and sinister bogeyman causes everything bad? I suppose you still believe mental illness and disease are still caused by demonic possession eh? That kind of superstitious nonsensical mentality is what got people burned at the stake for suggesting that the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the solar system.

and to top it all off you wanted a bowl of cereal for breakfast , but you don't have any milk, and you already poured the cereal in to the bowl and the box is in the trash with old spaghetti all over it and you don't have any plastic wrap to cover the bowl but like that matters the bowls too big to put in the cupboard

I believe I speak for everyone on ATS when I say, umm WHAT?

So being an atheist or wanting a bowl of cereal for breakfast could make me a servant of "SATIN"

Anyone with a solid understanding of logic and science can see that most of what Christianity claims to be true lacks any evidence to back up that claim. It's not about Satan. I was raised as a Christian but I also loved science as a kid. As I got into my teen years I was fascinated by other myths and religions and many different types of philosophy. I began to do this thing called USING MY BRAIN and eventually realized the religion I was brought up in wasn't perfect, that it was based on ignorance. God is representative of the unknown aspects of nature that the people who wrote the Bible didn't understand in the same way that the Greeks didn't understand lightning so they used Zeus to explain it. God is an expression of our ignorance about ourselves and the cosmos we inhabit. Deities and spirits and myths are our way of explaining how we got the way we are, where we are going and how nature works. Luckily we now have science, based in actual evidence, to get to the bottom of things...

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

God is representative of the unknown aspects of nature that the people who wrote the Bible didn't understand in the same way that the Greeks didn't understand lightning so they used Zeus to explain it.

Got evidence?

I counterpropose that "the people who wrote the Bible" used "the unknown aspects of nature," along with the known ones, to glorify their God. Ditto the Greeks.

Tossing lightning bolts says a lot about Zeus, and makes him a very big deal. On the other hand, saying that contributes very little to the "explanation" of lightning. So, why would I assume that that was the purpose of the statement? Why wouldn't I assume that the purpose of the statement was what it fully succeeds in doing, glorifying Zeus?

Let's see how the converse plays out. Both nations won and lost battles. It is reasonable to suppose that they "understood" military maneuver as it was practiced in their time. Yet both people implicated their gods in military outcomes, both good and bad.

So, even in the absence of anything to explain, people exhibited the same behavior with respect to what they did understand (they attributed what happened on the battlefield to their godheads), as they exhibited toward things that they didn't understand so well (lightning for Zeus, the rainbow is a popular one for Yahweh).

The "failed explanation" proposition is at best ... how we shall put it? less than obvious, unless you have an axe to grind.

Which brings us to the topic of the thread: why is it that whatever evidence Christians develop for a historical claim (such as: A Jewish preacher named something like Jesus lived and died in the first half of the First Century of the common Era) is deficient, while atheist fundamentalists make up pseudo-history and prehistory out of whole cloth, don't even hand-wave that they have any evidence for it, and expect people to buy their fantasies about the remote past?

So, I call put up or shut up. Let's see the evidence for this fact claim.

(And anticipating the stall: No, actually counterclaim is fair rebuttal. I have shown that there is a tenable alternative to your unsupported fact-claim. I have no further burden until and unless you back up what initiated our exchange.)

[edit on 9-5-2010 by eight bits]

Originally posted by the illuminator
I just have one question.
why do athiest's seem to always try and disproof christianity?

what about all the other religions?

why pick on the christians?

Technically that's 3 questions.

The reason atheists attack Christianity is because Satan our Lord and Master urges us to do so at our weekly meetings.

Ok that's the smartass remarks out of the way.

Seriously, I think it's nothing more complicated than the fact that most atheists on this board will, like myself, have been brought up in the Christian faith or at least heavily exposed to it through western culture. It's much easier to argue against something when you know something about it.

I disbelive all religions but if I had to pick specific dogmas that I disagree with they would be Christian ones, simply because I know more about Christianity than other religions.

That said I won't go out of my way to 'attack' although there will always be people that do (on both sides). I've certainly never told anyone they will burn in hell if they don't share my beliefs.

Maybe someone should start a 'Why Jainism is a load of BS' thread - not sure it would get much response though.

[edit on 9/5/2010 by MarrsAttax]

reply to post by eight bits


Technically your both telling half of a whole story. Yes, religions were invented to explain certain unanswerable questions and yes the deities of those religions were attributed to those unknowable natural events in symbolical ways to glorify those deities. Also, many religions have borrowed from one another rather heavily, and Judaic-Christianity is nothing more than another fine example of religious plagiarism.

In other words, no amount of bitching on your behalf is going to make your particular deity anymore valid than any other deity worshiped on Earth. The only reason your particular deity is more popular is due to your particular religion causing so much blood shed for the last thousand years.

A religion of peace it is not! It's an abomination to the very word and has been the day it was invented.

reply to post by sirnex


i dont see how christianity was invented to explain unanswerd questions. its centered around Christ jesus and our foundation is his ressurection!

Hi, sirnex.

In other words, no amount of bitching on your behalf is going to make your particular deity anymore valid than any other deity worshiped on Earth. The only reason your particular deity ...

What "deity" are you talking about?

.... is more popular is due to your particular religion causing so much blood shed for the last thousand years.

Please present your evidence for the proposition that agnostics have caused "bloodshed for the last thousand years."

It's an abomination to the very word and has been the day it was invented.

Please present any rational basis for your calling anybody's religion an abomination.

But, thank you for vindicating my prediction that instead of evidence for the atheist fairy tale of where religion comes from, I would get stall instead.

Yes, religions were invented to explain certain unanswerable questions ...

Restating an unfounded self-serving claim will not be mistaken for backing it up.

Evidence was called for, sirnex. Not piling it higher and deeper.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by eight bits]

reply to post by the illuminator

Many reasons - This is not a blanket statement about all Christians but mainly about immature Christians.

They have not grown up spiritually. They turn people off because they are so judgmental. They want people to repent! They don’t even know what repent means. They think it’s all about obeying the rules. We don’t smoke, we don’t chew, we don’t hang with people who do.

Many Christians lack forgiveness toward others. They want God to forgive their sins but they can’t forgive their neighbors, husbands, wives, in-laws, friends and parents – hypocrites!

They care not one iota for anyone outside their little clicks. They go to their Sunday morning clubs and then think they’re righteous because they went to church. But while they were at church they shunned the guy with the tattoos and piercings. They shunned the homeless drug addict looking for help.

They don’t know how to love people.

I could go on and on…

I love the sweet little Christian Grannies. They know not to sweat the small stuff. They know how to LOVE.



JESUS|YESHUA|SON < YHWH|YAHWEH|FATHER > CREATOR|KING|SAVIOUR

reply to post by the illuminator


Because, due to the high levels of ignorance and blind conformity present in Christian churches and communities, the christians are very easy targets.
Also, some people like to argue and prove their way is the right way. Atheists pick on christians because of 2 main reasons:

1. Christians will fight strongly for what they believe in, and there will be no compromises in their faith.

2. It seems that, no matter how strongly christians believe their way is the right way, they just cant seem to find a solid way to defend it, and are easily defeated.

Also, sometimes its just entertaining to see how christians try to explain things...my favorite: "Because the Bible says so".

reply to post by eight bits

Hi, sirnex.

Hey! *waves*

What "deity" are you talking about?

I thought that much was clear with "your particular deity." Do you require me to break down a simple sentence?

Please present your evidence for the proposition that agnostics have caused "bloodshed for the last thousand years."

Hmm, agnosticism isn't a religion, it's more of a cop out of indecisive people who have trouble with looking at evidences and coming to a conclusion. Possibly as mentally stagnant as a religious group.

I'm not sure exactly what you believe, but if your agnostic then most of my response to you was in vain. It appeared that you were defending Christianities Deity and so I assumed you were Christian.

Please present any rational basis for your calling anybody's religion an abomination.

Hmm, let's see... Since this thread is of particular interest in regards to Christianity, then we will use it as one example. The abomination lays within the message of the religion and the actions of the adherents. We also see this with the Muslims. Of course, not *ALL* religions are abomination to their religious teachings. Yet, all are abominations to logical thought. There is no basis to believe the universe works by magical beings other than ignorance of natural forces and effects.

But, thank you for vindicating my prediction that instead of evidence for the atheist fairy tale of where religion comes from, I would get stall instead.

Your prediction was not fulfilled as you both had two sides of the same story.

Restating an unfounded self-serving claim will not be mistaken for backing it up.

Explain how it's self serving, I'm not following your logic on that one.

Evidence was called for, sirnex. Not piling it higher and deeper.

What evidence would you accept when you have openly shown distrust for the sources of evidence?

In like, what evidence in favor of religion have you shown beyond mere bitching about one side of two sides to a whole story?

reply to post by eight bits


I never stated that unknown aspects of nature were THE ONLY things that influenced the creations and characteristics of deities and gods. My point was that God is usually synonymous with the big question we are lacking answers to. How did we humans get this way? God did it. Why do floods, earthquakes and volcanoes come from? God did it. The God did it label used to suffice until we discovered that by studying nature and observing it we could learn to understand it without needing spirits and magic behind every event.

It is well known that early man, in our superstition, blamed most natural events and catastrophes on spirits or wrathful gods. Droughts that killed crops, plagues that cropped up, were believed the result of the unfaithfulness of the people to their various gods or beliefs. The mentally ill were thought demonically possessed.

Of course other elements were put into the myths and yes the gods were sometimes used alongside things people did understand like WAR. But for war God was used primarily as a motivation tool, remember all those times in the Old Testament were God supposedly sent them out to conquer? Sounds more like those in power were CLAIMING God wanted them to wipe people out. Religion as a tool of control in other words.

I stand by my original point, much of what religion attempts to explain is the unknown. Why are we here? Who are we? Where are we going? What happens when we die? It also interweaves morals and life lessons and other things that were used to bind communities together but also serve just as well as tools of division and control. You can disagree with my philosophical musings if you wish, to each his own, our perceptions of "God" are all different... another reason we humans are so divided.

Gday,

Originally posted by Fromabove
Since my post is complete fantasy, could you please point me to your thread that debunks Islam and discredits the Quran, and also how it pokes a little fun at Muhammed ? I can't seem to find it.

Ah,
so now, realising you were completely wrong,
you attempt to change the subject.

It started with YOU saying this :
"You will never see atheists attack Islam."

YOU said NEVER.
According to you, one will NEVER see ANY attack on Islam anywhere.,

A complete fantasy.
I have seen many.

Of course, now you try to change it to attack on THIS board.
But there HAVE been attack on Islam on this board, just not as many as Christianity.


K.

because muslims are dangerous ...better not to talk about them

... freaking terrorists lol

because probably here there are more christians than muslims

I do not want to criticize or judge anyone for their belief's, however I would like to add somethings to this conversation. It is important for Christians to know, that Jesus was a normal man and did not begin his teachings and healing until after he reached enlightenment, in his late 20's. This is the same for the likes of the Buddha and also Muhammad, so we know there mother's were not impregnated by a Supreme Being.

We also know that none of these three wrote down any of their teachings, but rather taught those who would listen, ie. Disciples, who in turn may have wrote down or passed the teachings on through word of mouth. Enlightenment is reached through wisdom/knowledge, true compassion and prayer/meditation, and when achieved, allows the human to harness and, if need be, direct an amazing amount of energy that may resemble the glowing light of a Star. Modern day exoteric religions, tend to be very distorted and if all faith is placed inside of them, it will limit the mind. Read and study about all Religions and forms of Knowledge, as did Jesus and Buddha, and you will be tolerant of everyone, thus opening the door to true Compassion and Wisdom. This is what Jesus would of wanted, more so than the blind faith/military crusade type of belief that plague's our world.

Atheism has faults too, as one can become too skeptical, ie. Socrates, and it can come to the point they cannot become enlightened either because they are too close minded on proving everyone wrong, thus passing up potentially valuable knowledge.

Read and consider everything and look with in to find your answers.

Good night.

reply to post by the illuminator


Well Buddhist are tough to pick on because they don't claim to believe in anything, no doctrines, no rules or commands, hell not even God as such. In fact, they don't even believe in nothing as nothing. Hard to pick on that, try reading "Open Secret" by Wei Wu Wei or is it Wie Wu Wie or just Wu Wei. Of course I'm not referring to the Buddhist who do subscribe to the Tao or Buddha, those nuts are as crazy as any other poor religious sucker, but hey, that's their game, until it's not! And if not for them we wouldn't exist at all. If not for this post of mine, you (the reader) wouldn't either. Wow, the rabbit hole ends right where it began, which is not somewhere and not nowhere.

reply to post by faceoff85


In theology, that is known as the 9 fruits of the spirit. The way I remember, is because my old master, taught me that 9 was the number of fruit. I.E. nine months to parturition for babies. Nine fruits of the spirit, there were more, but I can't recall them right now.

Of course you could supersede conceptual thinking all together by simply realizing, "There is no "you" to begin with. This is a simple truth that's hard to know. Only by grace, can you know it, as seeking for it, you'll never find it. Why? Because there is no "you" to seek, and no "you" to find it. Also, there is no "it" to be found.

reply to post by the illuminator


Because it's easy. Christians won't kick their butts. They won't blow them up, or beat them in a dark alley. It's atheism for cowards.

I was born into a diehard catholic family. When I was 15 I was given a choice if I wanted to keep going to church or do my own thing. I chose to leave the archaic beliefs behind and get on with my life. I don’t bash any religion I just want to be left alone. Christians try and force their beliefs on other people all the time so it makes them targets.