Cocaine and Tobacco in anceint Egypt?

I heard of this a number of years ago but had forgotten all about it until I saw it again on the Discovery channel yesterday.
I wanted to get ATS's feedback on the link below.
www.newdawnmagazine.com...
How did the ancient Egyptians get their dope? Did they have contact with South America? Or was their a third party involved?
Both worshiped the sun, both built pyramids and both mummified their dead.
Tobacco and coc aine were only found in the Americas at this time in history, these two things are the only physical evidence that can be found that actually connect the two cultures. If the two were in contact with one another should there not be some sort of record?
I believe from what I have read that a third party may have been responsible. If there were people at the time (early Vikings maybe? or Alantians?)who worked as traders then they would not have wanted their sources to be known. Therefore they would have brought news, products and maybe ideas about the after life to others without telling their consumers where the goods or information came from.

funny, i was going to make a post about this the other day but decided not to. To me it appears that there was a trade route between the two because of this.

When researching the subject a few days ago it appeared that a logical solution could be found. Maybe there was coc aine and tobacco growing in the middle east or asia but it died out or became illegal so they stopped growing it.

I think it's ridiculous to say that the ancient people could not cross over to the Americas. Just because no "sea ferrying" boats from the Egyptians exist doesn't mean some one else like the Phoenicians couldn't have done it.

Honestly, i think there could be a cover up. History has decided that Columbus discovered america and they want to keep it that way. Most people who have looked into the subject probably know that the Vikings reached America in 1000AD and the Knights Templars probably came before Columbus. Also some argue that Columbus could have been associated with the Templars due to the ships sails being white with a red cross on them. Also where he came from has a history of the Templars.

There is a lot to South America along with Mesoamerica. Both cultures have a story of a white "God" coming to them from the sea and helping them not be savages pretty much. Who were those white gods? Why did they leave and never return? Maybe they picked up the coc aine and brought it back east and started to cultivate it back home. So many questions, so few answers!

Back in the mid 90's I researched this the best that I could at the time (through books mostly because the internet sucked then) and came across a few pictures of some statues found in S. America. They were 4 to 7 feet tall heads that had the facial features of Black Africans. I wish I could run across the story again. It might shed some light on our current topic.

reply to post by Quadrivium


FOUND IT!
They were called the Olmecs. Follow the link below, it is very interesting.

www.essaysbyekowa.com/olmecs.htm
edited for link

[edit on 6-5-2010 by Quadrivium]

reply to post by Quadrivium


Again, funny that you mention the olmecs. I made a post about them a few weeks ago!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I did not post the obvious huge black looking heads, i posted a few statues that looked very asian to me and i let people try to guess the origin.

I could not get the previous link to inbed but if you get the chance "copy and paste" it, I think it is very interesting, might be on to something

reply to post by Quadrivium


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/9eb95ef1bb8d7406.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/3cae20a39c0f353a.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/ab22f9307590ce55.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/f013bab38e64dc9a.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/8d594fccde08909b.jpg[/atsimg]

Now this one i find VERY very interesting. I like to think of it as the best chance of a link between the Olmecs and the Egyptians:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/e9522cd7613ef44a.gif[/atsimg]

Does this not look like asian men wearing Egyptian Head-dresses?

reply to post by BeastMaster2012
[more
Cool thread you had going, I had not seen alot of those pics yet. How can it be denied that there was not some sort of contact between the ancient civilizations?

Well, just by doing a quick search on "tobacco," I found that it is a product processed from the leaves of the plants from the genus "Nicotiana."

The genus "Nicotiana" is composed of herbs and shrubs from the nightshade family (Solanaceae) and is indigenous to North and South America, Australia, Southwest Africa and the South Pacific.
en.wikipedia.org...

Could the ancient Egyptians have got their tobacco from S. Western Africa?

However, I can't quickly link the Coca plant to Africa, but then the opening post's article just kind of throws coc aine in there with tobacco.


Nice pics BeastMaster2012! They look similar to Buddha or an Asian demographic to me.

[edit on 6-5-2010 by tooo many pills]

reply to post by Quadrivium


Because Columbus "discovered" america. The big problem with archaeology is if you make a new discovery that will totally re-write the history books, it's almost impossible to get the attention it deserves. The Catholics discovered America and they want to keep it that way.

Look at the under water city in Japan.



Most Scientist and Archaeologist say this is NOT man made. Give me an F'in break! There is no way this is not man made!

Now this one i find VERY very interesting. I like to think of it as the best chance of a link between the Olmecs and the Egyptians:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/e9522cd7613ef44a.gif[/atsimg]

Does this not look like asian men wearing Egyptian Head-dresses?





all i can say is WOW

reply to post by tooo many pills


They also found tobacco seeds and leaf fragments on some of the mummys. I think ramseys II.

Here is the last statue from my olmec post. This is another great one:

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
Here is "the Prince".

mayaruins.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/634ae655c600d6b5.jpg[/atsimg]

I can't find much information on this one. The book calls it The Prince and there aren't that many references to it so i don't think this is popular or the name changed.

This is a crazy one too!

reply to post by Quadrivium


Did they specifically find tobacco seeds and leaves as we know and smoke them today, or did they find seeds and leaves from the genus Nicotiana? Because from what I've just read it seems like any plant from the genus Nicotiana is capable of producing tobacco, but I am not positive, nor am I an expert.

hmmmmm

In addition to human subjects, Olmec artisans were adept at animal portrayals, for example, the ceramic ancient Olmec "Bird Vessel", and "Fish Vessel" dating to circa 1000 BC. Ceramics are produced in kilns capable of exceeding approximately 900° C. The only other prehistoric culture known to have achieved such high temperatures is that of Ancient Egypt. Bird Headed Beings.

How about this one. Corn and sunflower carving in ancient India,
geography.uoregon.edu...

Originally posted by tooo many pills
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

Did they specifically find tobacco seeds and leaves as we know and smoke them today, or did they find seeds and leaves from the genus Nicotiana? Because from what I've just read it seems like any plant from the genus Nicotiana is capable of producing tobacco, but I am not positive, nor am I an expert.

www.science-frontiers.com...

Could not find the first link I found it on but here is another,

reply to post by Quadrivium
This is something that crops up from time to time. A clearer source is American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies:A Review of the Evidence Your OP article describes pieces of tobacco being found...dishonesty on the part of the author. Traces of nicotine and coc aine were discovered inside the bodies...

In the study, samples were taken from nine mummies that were dated from between 1070 B.C. to 395 A.D. The samples included hair, skin and muscle were taken from the head and abdomen. Bone tissue was also taken from the skull. All tissues were pulverized and dissolved in NaCl solution, homogenized, and centrifuged. A portion of the supernatant was extracted with chloroform and dried and then dissolved in a phosphate buffer. Samples were then measured by both radioimmunoassay (Merck; Biermann) and gas chromatography / mass spectrometry (Hewlett Packard) - hereinafter GCMS.

Link

Egyptians and South Americans (proto-Mayans and Olmecs) have never met. There were no trade routes and neither civilisation had the technology for ocean-going vessels.. Genetic studies show no evidence of mixed parentage between them. No artifacts have been found on either side of the pond to conclude there was any contact at all.

So how does nicotine and coc aine show up?

The nicotine is easily explained...coc aine maybe less so.

Dietary nicotine (bottom right) from foods like the Eggplant (aubergine etc) makes it apparent where nicotine arises. Eggplant is and was a dietary staple in the area and found in carvings and images from the period.

Regarding the presence of coc aine...the jury's out...at least it is for me. Another study analyzed samples from 18 mummies from Dakhleh and found no evidence of coc aine and dietary levels of nicotine in most of the bodies. The detailed article is...OVERVIEW OF HAIR ANALYSIS:
A REPORT OF HAIR ANALYSIS FROM DAKHLEH OASIS, EGYPT

Hair samples were taken from 18 mummies from the Dakhleh Oasis which had under gone extensive autopsies and some of which had radiocarbon dating. These were subjected to coc aine and nicotine analysis by previously reported techniques. Hair samples were taken from a variety of ages and sexes. No samples were taken from individuals under six years of age.

These results indicate that all individuals were negative for coc aine and 10 of the 13 individuals had nicotine levels consistent with dietary or minimal tobacco exposure. These results indicate that all individuals were negative for coc aine and 14 of the 18 individuals (78%) were positive for nicotine. The positive levels clustered in a very narrow range from 0.7 to 2.1 ng/mg of hair. A cut off value of 2 ng/mg is used in modern testing to discriminate tobacco use from passive exposure and dietary sources of nicotine. In a study of ancient hair samples for Andean mummies this also was determined to be a valid cut-off value. All of the Dakhleh values are consistent with dietary origins. In contrast to the low levels found in Egyptian mummy hair the tobacco used in the South American population had values exceeding 20 Ng/mg hair.

So we've removed the mystery from the presence of nicotine. We're left with a study that seems to have found coc aine markers in the muscle tissue and hair follicles. The original study used mummies that had travelled around collections for some decades. It's possible the subjects or tests were flawed.

The Dakleh mummies were taken directly from the scene of burial, authenticated I suppose, and tested under rigorous conditions. The results were negative and no other mummies (to date) have revealed similar coc aine markers.

We're left with an anomalous sample and a minuscule suggestion of Egypt/S. American contact. The lack of tobacco or coca plants in the area doesn't help the idea either! If we stack that result up against evidence to the contrary we're left with the probability that the sample was flawed or there's an unknown source of coc aine markers in North East Africa at the time.

When I visited the Louvre, our guide showed us the most enigmatic and interesting things in the Egypt department, like the depiction of different cultures or statues that looked like aliens
And I`ll always remember the drawing of what looked like a central-american native on the inside of a Sarcophagus.
If you`d like I could post tonight some of the photos that I took and see if there is something related to the OP. They`ll be scanned.

I have to leave now, I`m going on a trip with my friends.

Take care!

Originally posted by sandri_90
When I visited the Louvre, our guide showed us the most enigmatic and interesting things in the Egypt department, like the depiction of different cultures or statues that looked like aliens

And I`ll always remember the drawing of what looked like a central-american native on the inside of a Sarcophagus.

If you`d like I could post tonight some of the photos that I took and see if there is something related to the OP. They`ll be scanned.

I have to leave now, I`m going on a trip with my friends.

Take care!

That would be awesome, i would love to see that!

Now i would like to add one more piece to this amazing puzzle.

The egyptians and the Grand canyon!

www.spiritofmaat.com...

The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.

According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archeologists of the Smithsonian Institute [1], which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came, will be solved. Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist.

This is a very controversial site. It was discovered in 1909 i believe and there was only one reference to this site in a newspaper. It is said that the Smithsonian was brought to investigate, but they never reported what they found. Ofcourse many people think it was a hoax, but why wouldn't they announce that it is a hoax? More from the story..

"Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving this cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet.

This is a fascinating part of the story and i don't remember reading this, but i admit i never read the full article:

"One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same. The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space."

In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of two hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn.

If you have read Dan Brown's Lost Symbol, you may remember the Smithsonian Pods which house most of their artifacts:

blogs.smithsonianmag.com...

1.Dan Brown asserts that the Museum Support Center, a storage center for objects in the Smithsonian collection not on display, houses more pieces than the Hermitage, the Vatican Museum and the New York Metropolitan, combined.

Fact: The MSC houses 55 million objects and specimens. Some quick sleuthing on the web sites of the Hermitage, the Vatican Museum and the Met reveal that the total number of objects in their collections, combined, is less than 10 million.

Could these pods be hiding the artifacts found in the Grand Canyon? Or was this a hoax that they never reported on? I guess we will probably never know. It has been 100 years, you would think we would have had an update by now, huh?

One last thing about this. A lot of areas around the grand canyon are named after Egypt.

You can read more on all of this here:

www.crystalinks.com...