Chemtrails? Need Help. 5/6/2010

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The clouds in the pictures indicate high relative humidity in your skies. Jet contrails in those conditions will take longer to dissipate. That's about all there is to it. "Chemtrails" are a hoax.

How do you explain them in my area then, when we have virtually zero humidity. anything over 26% humidity and we are dying, unless its cold outside.

Koyaanisqatsi - 1982

Koyaanisqatsi: Life out of Balance.

Ancient Hopi Native American Indian prophecy: The choral piece near the end of the film, "Prophecies", is sung in the Hopi dialect. The translation is: "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster. Near the Day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky. A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."

Cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky!

I must admit, this whole thread and discussion has been fascinating to me. After reading all the posts and evidence, I think it's unwise for anyone to totally deny that something is happening in our skies. Whoever wrote that observation is the key to real science was right on the money. It's more ignorant to neglect observation and criticize us "crazy conspiracy theorists" than anything.

Say for a minute that chemtrails are a hoax and totally out of the realm of possibility. Who can deny the fact that the thousands of aircraft flying over our skies day after day after day are slowly depositing harmful, cancer-causing traces of chemicals in our environment? Hell, even antiperspirant contains aluminum! ha

Anyhow, the truth is probably in between somewhere, but I commend everyone for an enjoyable discussion.

VB
OKC

reply to post by voyagerboy


I agree the truth is most likely in between the sensationalist chemtrail claims of mind control dust and poison gas clouds on one extreme and the total denial of the possible existence of government/military airborne experimentation and programs.

And yes, to completely write-off the possibility of any type of activity is down right close-minded and ignorant.

Keep an open mind, people!

The world is full of countless secrets and things about which we know nothing. That goes for the common chemtrail-debunker-clan members as well. They are not omniscient. Therefore cannot make a definitive judgment on the existance of such activity.

Yeah! they're just a HOAX! Never mind what common sense is telling you here. Actually they may well be cloud seeding but that is as good as you are getting from me. whatever it is it is not a natural occurrence. You are right to question what you are seeing. some on here will tell you one thing, and just as many will tell you the other so that puts it back in your court. Take a peak at this thread and in-particular the document attached from the House of Commons which may help answer your question.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.publications.parliament.uk...

Hope this helps some

[edit on 9-5-2010 by WWJFKD]

reply to post by WWJFKD


Your publication from parliament does help...it shows the same sort of discussion are taking place amongst a grea tmany Western governments.

Those are discussions about POSSIBILITIES!

If you notice, for example, on page 15 of that document from Parliament, one other idea they offer to mitigate Climate Change (global warming) is by using "Space Mirrors" on orbit about the Earth.

Reading a document that is offering ideas and proposals isn't hte same as inferring that it is some sort of "smoking gun evidence" of such activities already taking place!!!

THAT is what the "chemtrail" hoax BS websites like gullible people to believe...because, they hope to sell something. like books, DVDs, etc. OR, maybe something as simple as getting traffic to a website, in order to sell advertising space...in any event, with most of them ("chemtrail" BS websites) there is a profit motive, somewhere.

Another thing --- YouTube is a sort of 'one-way' forum. Meaning, a person who posts a video, there...even if it is TOTALLY INCORRECT, and has no scientific merit, and can easily be shown to be full of nonsense, there is little one can do to dispute it, except make written comments (unless the person posting has them disabled), or make a video of your own, and post in "response"...but how many people bother to follow the llinks, in those cases?

Here, at ATS, is a much better way to SHOW people, in a dialogue format, just how ridicuous these "chemtrail" bogus claims are....IF they would only take off their blinders and pay attention.

I say again --- stuff is being put out by the hucksters, and when they call attention to documents like the Parliament paper, or to the United States' House Bil (which, BTW, had the item labeled "chemtrails" redacted, in later versions, on revision...) they lead people with those things, and infer something that isn't there.

It's called "SPIN".

Blah Blah Blah...



You seem to be a well versed disinfo agent dont ya?


The HR Bill was bunk huh? Really? WHy not call the man who sponsered it and ask him what he thinks? I know... He isnt involved in weather enough for you is he?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by WWJFKD

 

Your publication from parliament does help...it shows the same sort of discussion are taking place amongst a grea tmany Western governments.

Those are discussions about POSSIBILITIES!

If you notice, for example, on page 15 of that document from Parliament, one other idea they offer to mitigate Climate Change (global warming) is by using "Space Mirrors" on orbit about the Earth.

Reading a document that is offering ideas and proposals isn't hte same as inferring that it is some sort of "smoking gun evidence" of such activities already taking place!!!

THAT is what the "chemtrail" hoax BS websites like gullible people to believe...because, they hope to sell something. like books, DVDs, etc. OR, maybe something as simple as getting traffic to a website, in order to sell advertising space...in any event, with most of them ("chemtrail" BS websites) there is a profit motive, somewhere.

Another thing --- YouTube is a sort of 'one-way' forum. Meaning, a person who posts a video, there...even if it is TOTALLY INCORRECT, and has no scientific merit, and can easily be shown to be full of nonsense, there is little one can do to dispute it, except make written comments (unless the person posting has them disabled), or make a video of your own, and post in "response"...but how many people bother to follow the llinks, in those cases?

Here, at ATS, is a much better way to SHOW people, in a dialogue format, just how ridicuous these "chemtrail" bogus claims are....IF they would only take off their blinders and pay attention.

I say again --- stuff is being put out by the hucksters, and when they call attention to documents like the Parliament paper, or to the United States' House Bil (which, BTW, had the item labeled "chemtrails" redacted, in later versions, on revision...) they lead people with those things, and infer something that isn't there.

It's called "SPIN".

Also... So, what part of this issue is a big hoax? Specifically? WHat part(s)?


Planes spraying chemicals?

GeoEngineering?

Secret plots of depopulation?

What?

reply to post by AllSeeingI


You're right....the KC-135 is NOT the only air-to-air refueling tanker in existence.

However, show where I :

You make a number of false assumptions here:

OK...you say this, without any sort of citations:

You assume that all the KC 135s are disclosed....a number of experimental KC 135s are not included in this Wiki roster.

"a number of..." are not disclosed? "experimental" KC-135s?

Didn't I already mention that they are NOT BUILDING them? Haven't since, oh, the 1960s. Gor re-read the Wiki article.


Now, since you're obviously back-pedaling, I'm not trying to make you look bad, but I call the BS when I see it, especially if it looks like someone is just making stuff up.

There is another (smaller) fleet of a different tanker airplane the USAF uses...the KC-10:

Operators

United States Air Force operated 59 KC-10 aircraft as of September 2007.

en.wikipedia.org...


Now, you may wish to ALSO try to 'argue' for the other large transport type jets in the USAF fleet...the C-17 and C-141, if you wish.

BUT, you still run into the same difficulty I mentioned before...PROOF!

Get a team together, around the country, co-ordinate your efforts, and do the research, then report back with your findings.


NOW...before you waste time on that, why not first, re-think the math problem.

The volcano analogy was handy, because it's recent. Check into other historical volcanic eruptions, in modern history, and their effects, and then note the estimates of how much particulate matter was involeved with those.

THEN, once again, explain how it would be possible, at all, for humans to loft the same quantity, in pounds, using airplanes.

Note, also, that the same volcanic ash, which when seen to fall to Earth is quite noticeable, is nevertheless invisible in the atmosphere (except as it affects sunrises and sunsets).

YET, "chemtrailers" would have us believe that every, single contrail they 'spot' is some nefarious attempt at infecting, or otherwise influencing, the poor, unsuspecting boobs on the ground?

Come on!

Back to the math....I keep saying this, and no one pays attention....we aren't just talking, in the distribution alleged by the "chemtrailers", of the mere area, in so many square miles or square kilometers. ANY efforts, of this so-called nature, would have to take into account the THIRD dimension of height (or thickness), and calculate the VOLUME of material needed.

Most "chemtrail" believers never do this, they never think it through logically......

reply to post by Goethe

You seem to be a well versed disinfo agent dont ya?

You have it backwards...the "chemtrailers" are the masters at disinfo.

The HR Bill was bunk huh? Really? WHy not call the man who sponsered it and ask him what he thinks? I know... He isnt involved in weather enough for you is he?

Former presidential candiate Dennis Kucinich.

AND, when that word "chemtrails" was pointed out to him, he didn't like it, and it was removed.

Seems there was a secret "chemtrailer" somewhere, with an agenda?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Goethe

 

You seem to be a well versed disinfo agent dont ya?

You have it backwards...the "chemtrailers" are the masters at disinfo.

The HR Bill was bunk huh? Really? WHy not call the man who sponsered it and ask him what he thinks? I know... He isnt involved in weather enough for you is he?

Former presidential candiate Dennis Kucinich.

AND, when that word "chemtrails" was pointed out to him, he didn't like it, and it was removed.

Seems there was a secret "chemtrailer" somewhere, with an agenda?

You were there with him when he did that? Or maybe got the memo?

Im not sure how you would be able to know that, but I guess your word is ok to take right?



(scratching head in sheer wonder...)

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Goethe]

Originally posted by Goethe

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by WWJFKD

 

Your publication from parliament does help...it shows the same sort of discussion are taking place amongst a grea tmany Western governments.

Those are discussions about POSSIBILITIES!

If you notice, for example, on page 15 of that document from Parliament, one other idea they offer to mitigate Climate Change (global warming) is by using "Space Mirrors" on orbit about the Earth.

Reading a document that is offering ideas and proposals isn't hte same as inferring that it is some sort of "smoking gun evidence" of such activities already taking place!!!

THAT is what the "chemtrail" hoax BS websites like gullible people to believe...because, they hope to sell something. like books, DVDs, etc. OR, maybe something as simple as getting traffic to a website, in order to sell advertising space...in any event, with most of them ("chemtrail" BS websites) there is a profit motive, somewhere.

Another thing --- YouTube is a sort of 'one-way' forum. Meaning, a person who posts a video, there...even if it is TOTALLY INCORRECT, and has no scientific merit, and can easily be shown to be full of nonsense, there is little one can do to dispute it, except make written comments (unless the person posting has them disabled), or make a video of your own, and post in "response"...but how many people bother to follow the llinks, in those cases?

Here, at ATS, is a much better way to SHOW people, in a dialogue format, just how ridicuous these "chemtrail" bogus claims are....IF they would only take off their blinders and pay attention.

I say again --- stuff is being put out by the hucksters, and when they call attention to documents like the Parliament paper, or to the United States' House Bil (which, BTW, had the item labeled "chemtrails" redacted, in later versions, on revision...) they lead people with those things, and infer something that isn't there.

It's called "SPIN".

Also... So, what part of this issue is a big hoax? Specifically? WHat part(s)?


Planes spraying chemicals?

GeoEngineering?

Secret plots of depopulation?

What?

Care to take a jab at that?

reply to post by Goethe



It is not necessary to 'quote' my entire post...you may select portions, or use the "this post" tab to paste a link.

So, what part of this issue is a big hoax? Specifically? WHat part(s)?


Planes spraying chemicals?

HOAX. Yes.

The only thing anyone actually sees are contrails. They DO have chemicals in them, but only for the same reason that the exhaust from your car or motorcycle tailpipe has chemicals in them, too. They're called "unburned hydrocarbons".

GeoEngineering?

Not yet. Being tossed around, as possible ideas, IF and WHEN such drastic measures might be warranted, in the future. The tecnology to actually do this, on a global scale, is probably not even there yet, anyway.

The British Parliament document mentions orbiting "Space Mirrors", too. As a possibility (or, do you think THOSE are also being deployed, right now, today??)

Secret plots of depopulation?

NO!

This is where the paranoid schizophrenics have jumped the shark.

There are far, far, far "easier" ways (if one were to desire it) to "de-populate".

Local water supplies --- poison. Contraceptives. Food stuffs donated to the hungry nations, the poor nations.

ALL vile, vile ideas, of course. AND, there is no way that any Nation on the planet would be able to get away with something like that, without the others noticing, rather quickly.

But, anyway, if you look at GLOBAL POPULATION trends, and life span increases, world-wide, then NONE of that is happening!

(Use your google-machine for some real research).

reply to post by Goethe

You were there with him when he did that? Or maybe got the memo?

No, but you see...this is the kind of snarky attitude that is inhibiting your learning.

The "stroy" about HR2977 is an internet lie, and is being spread by the "chemtrail" websites...THEY are the ones spreading disinfo.

Here, read about what REALLY happened: (Hint, this is one way how I knew the true facts about that bill...)

contrailscience.com...

Note the connection to a "UFO faction", as well, in the authorship of that Bill....

Pay attention!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Goethe

 

It is not necessary to 'quote' my entire post...you may select portions, or use the "this post" tab to paste a link.

So, what part of this issue is a big hoax? Specifically? WHat part(s)?


Planes spraying chemicals?

HOAX. Yes.

The only thing anyone actually sees are contrails. They DO have chemicals in them, but only for the same reason that the exhaust from your car or motorcycle tailpipe has chemicals in them, too. They're called "unburned hydrocarbons".

GeoEngineering?

Not yet. Being tossed around, as possible ideas, IF and WHEN such drastic measures might be warranted, in the future. The tecnology to actually do this, on a global scale, is probably not even there yet, anyway.

The British Parliament document mentions orbiting "Space Mirrors", too. As a possibility (or, do you think THOSE are also being deployed, right now, today??)

Secret plots of depopulation?

NO!

This is where the paranoid schizophrenics have jumped the shark.

There are far, far, far "easier" ways (if one were to desire it) to "de-populate".

Local water supplies --- poison. Contraceptives. Food stuffs donated to the hungry nations, the poor nations.

ALL vile, vile ideas, of course. AND, there is no way that any Nation on the planet would be able to get away with something like that, without the others noticing, rather quickly.

But, anyway, if you look at GLOBAL POPULATION trends, and life span increases, world-wide, then NONE of that is happening!

(Use your google-machine for some real research).

Thanks for the response.


But you failed to mention if you dont think planes spray chemicals?

For any reason?


I dont think its pop reduction or anything really, thats abit out there. John P Holdren already said theyd do it through the water and food.


So you dont think any geoengineering goes on yet?


I can tell you right now thats just completely wrong...


Its been going on for decades.

As for the google machine, the snide comments really dont make your posts any more crediable or anything.

Instead of being like that, why not post something to back yourself up, instead of just witty banter...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Goethe

 

You were there with him when he did that? Or maybe got the memo?

No, but you see...this is the kind of snarky attitude that is inhibiting your learning.

The "stroy" about HR2977 is an internet lie, and is being spread by the "chemtrail" websites...THEY are the ones spreading disinfo.

Here, read about what REALLY happened: (Hint, this is one way how I knew the true facts about that bill...)

contrailscience.com...

Note the connection to a "UFO faction", as well, in the authorship of that Bill....

Pay attention!

I read that site, good read, but how is any of that any different from what I post? Or you post?

Did you specifically talk to him and get his views? Or are you trying to pass off a site as evidence? Cause that doesnt seem to work well when I or others do it to support our claims?

As for the authors of the bill, they have more credibility to me than you...

So, what part of this issue is a big hoax? Specifically? WHat part(s)?


Planes spraying chemicals?

HOAX. Yes.

The only thing anyone actually sees are contrails. They DO have chemicals in them, but only for the same reason that the exhaust from your car or motorcycle tailpipe has chemicals in them, too. They're called "unburned hydrocarbons".

GeoEngineering?

Not yet. Being tossed around, as possible ideas, IF and WHEN such drastic measures might be warranted, in the future. The tecnology to actually do this, on a global scale, is probably not even there yet, anyway.

The British Parliament document mentions orbiting "Space Mirrors", too. As a possibility (or, do you think THOSE are also being deployed, right now, today??)




Cloud seeding?

Any of the docs showing geoengineering has been going on for decades?

So, I guess those are just crazy talk hoax's huh?

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Goethe]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Goethe]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Goethe]

reply to post by Goethe

But you failed to mention if you dont think planes spray chemicals?

For any reason?

Cropdusting. At VERY low altitudes, of course. Ground level.

Cloud "seeding". In the troposphere altitudes, IN THE CLOUDS...usually, you cannot see an airplane when it is in the clouds.

Exhaust gases. Pollution. It happens, from ALL airplanes.

So you dont think any geoengineering goes on yet?


I can tell you right now thats just completely wrong...


Its been going on for decades.

Proof! ???

"decades"?

Only inasmuch as the consequences of man's technology...the unintended consequences, that contrails contribute.

Did you know that slashing the rain forests in Brazil ALSO contribute to climate change? So does agriculture. And cow farts....(animal husbandry, increased methane production, from raising of livestock)...effects of human activity, but NOT in a premediated way.


[edit on 10 May 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker

There are planes that have been persistently spraying some substance(s) into the atmosphere for years.

I can say that with absolute certainty, just as easily as you can say it is a "hoax" with absolute certainty, apparently.
How you can say that eludes me, as there is ample evidence that the populace has been lied to so many times that it is clear TPTB do WHAT they want, WHEN they want.

One view will be proven wrong.
You cannot prove your statement, I cannot prove mine, yet, though there are a lot of people gathering evidence.

Point: There is NO possible way YOU can EVER prove your assertion, YOU CAN ONLY BE DISPROVEN. What a gutsy stance.

reply to post by Stewie


You have no proof.

I have science, alnd logic.

You have only speculation.

SHOW your "proof"!