Unamerican people need to leave America

www.gemworld.com...

"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Morrison v. State, Mo. App., 252 S.W.2d 97, 101.

Constitutional rights are unalienable.

(Sorry I see people saying inalienable too much)

Originally posted by misteRee
reply to post by Primordial

 

Wow, I'll try and respond to this.....

No the reason you are sat up at your computer is because man has the power to think, to rationalise, to observe, to make decision based on probability.

No, that's the reason a computer exists. Partly anyway.

The reason I'm able to sit at my computer and type this is because the particular place I live doesn't restrict my usage of the computer and use of the internet so long as I don't break any laws pertaining to computer use. If I get caught hacking into banks my ability to use a computer will quickly disappear. It has nothing to do with natural law or rights.

If you knew the first thing about love, you would know about rights. We do have "rights" yes they were made up in our head but so was maths. They are idealogical concepts. Stop trying to confuse people.

Love has nothing to do with rights. I could hate you with all my soul but still allow you certain rights. Notice I said allow. No matter what belief you have in your head about your natural rights, if you can not prevent me from taking them away then they do not exist.

yes they were made up in our head

Exactly.
I think you are confused all on your own, no help needed from me.

We don't truelly have rights because of the way our goverments work. We are slaves to the monetary system - FACT.

Close. You don't truly have rights because they only exist so long as someone agrees to not take them. That someone doesn't have to be the government, banks, the illuminati, aliens, or the tooth fairy. If your neighbor decides you no longer have the right to life and takes it upon himself to enforce that belief, your ideology will offer little resistance to the high speed piece of lead hurtling into your skull.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

It was easy to predict by your initial post that you would choose to engage with me. I never once stated that rights should be given, this is your false dichotomy not mine. You seem to love to use the phrase "rights enumerated" as if you have some understanding of what that means. Perhaps you have never read the 9th Amendment:

Yep I know what enumerated means, but perhaps you need some help finding out what it means.

e·nu·mer·ate
tr.v. e·nu·mer·at·ed, e·nu·mer·at·ing, e·nu·mer·ates

1. To count off or name one by one; list: A spokesperson enumerated the strikers' demands.
2. To determine the number of; count.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Apparently you thought, or still think there is some "hidden meaning to the word enumerated that only Jean Paul Zodeaux knows about"....

Anyway, the fact of the matter is whether you want to admit it or not it is the U.S. Constitution which specifies those rights "enumerated" for the legal citizens of the U.S....if there was no U.S. Constitution we would probably have been living in a real dictatorship, even though the rich Socialist elites, and other sell outs are working hard to trample every right "enumerated" in the Constitution as it is.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


~9th Amendment, Constitution for the United States of America~

Yeah, and it seems that you don't understand that it is talking about the people of the United States of America, not the rest of the world....

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Do you sincerely believe that the Constitution is granting rights they are not sure of with this Amendment?

You would have to read the other documents written by the forefathers of the Republic to understand what they meant, which includes...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

www.ushistory.org...

See, you can't just make stuff up, you have to understand in what context the forefathers meant those things they wrote about instead of making your own conclusions based on assumptions you pulled out of a magical hat.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
It matters not to me who wants rights and freedoms, what matters to me is that mine are respected. Clearly mine are not, and thus, I defend the rights of all. I do not impose anything, I speak freely in defense of freedom and I don't equivocate when doing so, this would be the difference between myself and you, and this is enough of a difference to render your flaming moot.

If you don't even understand what those freedoms and rights are, and that it has only been thanks to the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights within it, as well as the declaration of Independence and other documents written by the forefathers that you have those rights, how do you even know your rights are not being respected?

BTW, it is an entirely different thing to hope that the people of the world are respected as humans beings, and that they are allowed to prosper, and live as they see fit, and another entire thing is to want all people in the world to have the same rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution, which seems to be what you are saying.

As I said before, first of all not everyone want the same rights, and freedoms granted to us by the U.S. Constitution, and second of all if we did do that we would be in constant wars, and not just in two wars, but several dozens.

BTW, I was born and lived through Communism, and yes I still have family living under the oppression of a Socialist dictatorship, which coincidentally is what the Left wants for the U.S. Do I want my family to live under such oppression?... no, but I also am not looking for a war with the Cuban Socialist/Communist dictatorship for that to happen.



[edit on 5-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by TheCoffinman


It also depends on what latino you are talking about. Most, if not all Cuban-Americans are conservative, and or Republican because we have lived through Socialism/Communism already, and don't want to see that happening to the Republic of the United States, but other latinos, and more so Mexicans are very left leaning, so most probably that latino man you saw was Mexican, but maybe I am wrong.


[edit on 5-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

What ever happen to "bring me your tired your poor yada yada"? This is not the America that my grandfather, father and brother(currently) risked thier lifes for.

I'm not for illegals but why not help and allow those who are escaping and trying to make better lives.

Truth be told I'm 2nd generation from my dads side(norwegion(sp)) and 3rd from my mothers.

If we get rid of all nonnatives we all have to go save indians (nonpolictical correct).

I could not have said that better myself. Americans need to come together and make this coutry what it was meant to be. My only addition would be this. People want to come to america in hopes of a better life. To give this life to everyone is impossible... There needs to be a better immigration policy. I am deffinetly not against making some room.. Lets get rid of Child molesters,rapists, murders and anyone that doesnt like the red wings! jking. Have a good guys and girls.. Its hump day!

I agree
we are the CHOSEN ones!
like it or not, we must set the tone of the world
it is in total anarchy, no?
ha
sorry, I once thought the US was evil, not now
we dont behead people for youtube display!

reply to post by SpectreDC


I agree, the government has way too much control over us. We should be able to break from the union, but I feel as if there would always be the government right there keeping us down. Unfortunately I am not sure to actually blame for this. What branch is the one keeping us so low? My only guess would be the executive branch and it has been that way for years and years.

Originally posted by Light of Night
Here is the proof that the Constitution does grant us rights.

1st Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

4th Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I'm not going to post anymore but I really hope people get the point by this point. The Constitution does grant us rights.

Dude.....I had this big ole post written up in response to your incorrect argruement. Then a thought hit me. I have no desire to help the willfully ignorant. Go back to your stable and wait for the next piece of paper to dictate how you live your life. You've got your head so far up your ass that you must be used to the smell.......

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

As I said, I've no desire to play your games.

AAAAAAAAAhhhhahahahahaha!!!!!

Man do I get a good howl at people like this. "if you disagree with me, it better be in a way that I want and if not, your playing games and I won't have it"

Maybe you should heed your little signature you have there......

reply to post by Buddywhasisname


I do. Which is why I refuse to play games with someone who has repeatedly shown more interest in twisting words to the breaking point than having a civil discussion. Someone incapable of being reasoned with is not worth the time it would take me to type a response that would be ignored anyway. Why waste my time?

great plan i will support it only if amerikans will leave the forein country's they annexated also!

Light of Night, while I understand where you're coming from, the intent behind the bill of rights is not to "grant" rights. It's purpose was to spell out, or reinforce, rights already believed to exist by the founders.

More like ... we believe there to be inalienable rights and here they are.

reply to post by theinfernal


Yeah "dude"...please. If they got it from someone else, let those people complain. Frankly, I don't see anyone complaining but the Americans who had the audacity to steal it from the Mexicans to begin with. Read a little history, the US tried to buy the land off, when the Mexicans refused, the Americans invaded and took it illegally. So to me, the only illegals are the Americans living in Mexican-occupied territory. The Mexicans are only retaking what's rightfully their own land.

Peace.

I know most won't agree with this. The constitution also guides us as what to do about illegal immigration. BUT I think you are right in the most part because; If it wasn't for the economy or money what would it matter that we had illegals? If money wasn't a problem or didnt exist or we and the world had some other working monetary system would the Mexicans have even come here in the first place? I firmly believe that nature has a way of putting the people who need to be in a certain place in that place. To me I grew up IN Tucson,AZ and my cousins have hispanic decent and many of the people and my freinds and my freinds children has hispanic/ latin roots. They are my brothers , my sisters, my gramas, my fathers, my mothers; so why would i want to kick them out? The only reason i can think of is money and jobs and economic reasons, and who's fault is that? we want to blame other races or people, but it's the Bankers and Governments we should be concerned with. The "Mexicans" are our allies and brothers in arms, I mean they protest and stand up like true Americans like us; atleast they are fighting for it, and i can't think of anything more American as fighting for FREEDOM. Happy Cinco De
Mayo!

FINALLY !!!

Some one who has read the Constitution and has a grasp on what it says !!!

I have waited a long time for this to become so obviouse.

I agree.

And americans need to leave "unamerican" countries also... like in the middle east for example... and stop exploiting other "unamerican" people stripping them off of their "unamerican" resources.

So, by 'American', do you mean Venezuela, or Canada, or Mexico, or Argentina, or Panama etc?

Enough with the cultural imperialism

Originally posted by Light of Night
Okay, lets just let everybody into the country without any background checks or anything. Or better yet lets call everybody in the world American's and they are entitled to everything that we have. I'm sure we can figure out a way to send welfare checks and food stamps to all the poverty stricken people all over the world.

So I guess basically what you are trying to say is that, illegal immigrants should be allowed the same rights as American citizens? That what this rant screams to me.

You are completely off base, dude. He's providing a definition of rights and what inherently belong to us. And though I came here to knock him down a few pegs, I have found that he is absolutely correct. The title was misleading, though.

As far as "letting everybody into the country without any background checks" etc, I'm pretty sure when you were born, the MD didn't do a background check on you--and I'm also pretty sure that this country was founded BY immigrants. Which means that your ancestors are immigrants. So who are you to keep anyone out of this country or suggest who should be given the right to live here? As far as giving food stamps or welfare to the rest of the world, it's called AID and we do that already. Rightfully so. Hopefully you never go through a time when you have no food, water or shelter--or the means to get those necessities. It's pretty selfish to say it's mine all mine when there is so much to give. Are you heartless? We EVOLVE by helping each other. We will DIE when we stop. Do you get it, now?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Anyway, the fact of the matter is whether you want to admit it or not it is the U.S. Constitution which specifies those rights "enumerated" for the legal citizens of the U.S

I will admit it as soon as you can find a single word, passage, or phrase in That Constitution to support your contention. You, of course, will not, but this is something you're not willing to admit, is it? You seem to like bragging about your ignorance and show it in spades when you re-quote the 9th Amendment I posted, and follow it with this absurd statement:

Yeah, and it seems that you don't understand that it is talking about the people of the United States of America, not the rest of the world.

Why do you understand it this way, because some tyrant told you so? You can't even possibly infer such a meaning from the 9th Amendment, nor any other passage in The Bill of Rights, nor Constitution. What ever your agenda is it ain't about freedom, pal.

When I asked you if you sincerely believed that the 9th Amendment was granting rights it wasn't all that clear on, you answer with this:

You would have to read the other documents written by the forefathers of the Republic to understand what they meant, which includes...

And then quote a portion of the Declaration of Independence, which is this:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

And then followed with this amusing statement:

See, you can't just make stuff up, you have to understand in what context the forefathers meant those things they wrote about instead of making your own conclusions based on assumptions you pulled out of a magical hat.

As if you have an understanding of "context". It is not I who have come to conclusions based upon assumptions I pulled out of a "magical hat", this is you and like a bad Doug Henning, (which has got to be pretty bad), you hope to show rabbits were none exist. You hope that through misdirection you can somehow convince People that rights only exist because a piece of paper exists.

If you don't even understand what those freedoms and rights are, and that it has only been thanks to the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights within it, as well as the declaration of Independence and other documents written by the forefathers that you have those rights, how do you even know your rights are not being respected?

You ask of me if I even know my rights are not being respected, and this coming after your mini socialist rant, as if the recent "health care Bill" isn't an absolute derogation and abrogation of rights in the name of socialism. You vehemently insist that rights are something alienable and granted by government, then somehow expect People to believe that our government would never dare abrogate and derogate the rights they granted us, because we have a piece of paper saying so. You make disingenuous statements such as this:

BTW, it is an entirely different thing to hope that the people of the world are respected as humans beings, and that they are allowed to prosper, and live as they see fit, and another entire thing is to want all people in the world to have the same rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution, which seems to be what you are saying.

Let's be clear here, what I am saying is Natural Rights exist with or without documentation, but what you are clearly advocating is that only governments allow freedom, and if they don't, well that's fine too. Your argument is a tyrants argument and free People everywhere should be vary wary of little people like you. You defend your position on tyranny by making this argument:

As I said before, first of all not everyone want the same rights, and freedoms granted to us by the U.S. Constitution, and second of all if we did do that we would be in constant wars, and not just in two wars, but several dozens.

All those People who don't want the same rights should be grateful to you indeed, that you are there to defend their right to subservience. You impishly continue to play your silly "warmonger" game insisting that my own assertions that all people are born with Natural Rights somehow means that the U.S. should go across the world and impose freedom, as if such a thing were possible. It is you who are making these arguments, not I, and much like the other ignoramus playing fast and loose with definitions, so do you. You ridiculously provided a link for the term enumerated as if somehow this supported your contention that rights can only be granted. There is, of course, not even a correlation between the two.

All people should zealously defend their Rights, and jealously guard them, but this assertion in no way is an advocacy for war, this is your twist, not mine.

BTW, I was born and lived through Communism, and yes I still have family living under the oppression of a Socialist dictatorship, which coincidentally is what the Left wants for the U.S. Do I want my family to live under such oppression?... no, but I also am not looking for a war with the Cuban Socialist/Communist dictatorship for that to happen.

You preen and prance and pretend you are against the left, but your own arguments are what the left need People to believe in order to accomplish what they want. As long as rights are granted by government they can be taken away by government, as long as People understand their Rights are theirs and inalienable, then the left will have to keep relying upon little people like you. I urge you, nay I plead with you, stop being such a little person who willingly submits to dubious government authority, and simply assert the rights you have, and always did, even when you were born, in spite of the fact that was apparently in Cuba. You left that tyranny by Right, now honor that Right and defend freedom, not with weapons of mass destruction, but with words, and God forbid there ever comes a time, when more than words are required.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]