Huge National Debts Could Push Euro Zone into Bankruptcy

Originally posted by Dermo
This in turn has given investors confidence that they will not lose their investments because the nations in question will not default as a result of the Mechanism..

That's a load of it. If I hadn't panicked on Thursday and got out this little mechanism would have destroyed me. What about just everyone that just lost out because of this little move, ie the investors and people trading in the currency markets?

Do you really think this gives people confidence? Or does it make them feel like doing a run on the bank because their purchasing power is falling and so is the value of their assets.

This in turn has rallied the highly undervalued markets which were down as a result of loss of confidence in the EUROZONE.. So now they are back up and the vast majority of that money will not need to be used unless there is a massive collapse in the future..

The money is being used to make that rally. They're buying up bonds and securities, from themselves mostly. Using mark to myth accounting they can push the markets up 5-9% in one day with a trillion. But this is the limit of the effect that money will have.

Now that people know the ECB is going to monetise the collapse of the EMU is inevitable.

Originally posted by belial259
Do you really think this gives people confidence? Or does it make them feel like doing a run on the bank because their purchasing power is falling and so is the value of their assets.

Well thats your opinion and I don't share it.. Neither do most of the analysts I follow.. An opinion is an opinion though.. Who knows overall. These markets are fickle.. Personally, i would have been waiting to see what the EU came up with this morning and then bought as soon as I saw the outline of the mechanism.. And thats what people did..

The money is being used to make that rally. They're buying up bonds and securities, from themselves mostly. Using mark to myth accounting they can push the markets up 5-9% in one day with a trillion. But this is the limit of the effect that money will have.

1) The ECB are buying the bonds with different funds..

2) The Mechanism stabilized the markets.. As it was meant to.. Its not perfect but what in this situation is? If you have a better idea of how you would have stopped the global markets tanking and before 10pm this morning by combining the resources of the EU.. then share it please..

3) Explain how you know the EMU will break up please.. Two things can happen.. A break up or a tighter fiscal governance.. And noone can tell which will emerge until Van Rompoy drops his little bombshell in a few weeks in regards the new economic governmental policies.. Once that happens, we will see.

Personally, even though I don't completely agree with it.. I think the shock of what just happened in the EU will have people all over the union pushing for the government. Either that or lose their currency and watch the EU and West tank in the space of weeks..

So if you know something I don't, then spill.. Other than that, making claims about the collapse as if it is a sure thing is not exactly wise seeing as the future is not set in stone..

Moody's might downgrade Greek debt

Originally posted by belial259
Moody's might downgrade Greek debt

I'd like to point out that that was on the 6th.. 4 Days before todays EU announcement..

Originally posted by Dermo
The ECB are buying the bonds with different funds..

And where did they come from? Kinda funny they've got these different funds when they just had to monetise.

The Mechanism stabilized the markets..

Stabilized? How? I don't know if you missed that 1000 point drop in the Dow last week. And subsequent 400+ point rise today. How is that stable?

People say trading error or fat finger or mechanism stablized the markets. But that ignores the real people out there investing. And their purchasing power and the value of their investments.

The total fiction of a free market.

It takes a trillion to shift the Dow up 400 points, it dropped 1000 last week what do you think happened?

Explain how you know the EMU will break up please..

Explain what benefit there is of it staying together for the member states? They're going to monetise the debt so the value of the Euro will fall. The more they do it, the greater the diminishing returns, and the more they have to print.

reply to post by belial259


To think that lending more money will solve problems is just stupid, its debt that causes the problems.
As i see it, we cannot avoid the global meltdown, just buy a little time before it happens.

reply to post by belial259


If the greeks are really serious about eradicating the corruption of the Euro monetary system, they should stick to their guns, rather than be intimidated by financial package bailouts. I mean WHO is going to cough up to pay for all this?
You and me of course.
The whole system stinks.

mclinking

There is nothing to worry about folks.............go shopping, go watch Ironman II, have FUN! That's all that matters!


Leading Debt to GDP Figures

Country Name, Gross External Debt, GDP, percentage of external debt vs. GDP

1. Ireland – 2.386tr, 188.4b, 1267%

2. Switzerland – 1.338tr, 316.7b, 422.7%

3. UK – 9.087tr, 2.226tr, 408.3%

4. Netherlands – 2.452tr, 672b, 365%

5. Belgium – 1.246tr, 389b, 320.2%

6. Denmark – 607.38b, 203.6b, 298.3%

7. Austria – 832.4b, 329.5b, 252.6%

8. France – 5.021tr, 2.128tr, 236%

9. Portugal - 507b, 236.5b, 214.4%

10. Hong Kong – 631.13b, 306.6b, 205.8%

11. Norway – 548.1b, 275.4b, 199%

12. Sweden – 669.1b, 344.3b, 194.3%

13. Finland – 364.85b, 193.5b, 188.5%

14. Germany – 5.208tr, 2.918tr, 178.5%

15. Spain – 2.409tr, 1.403tr, 171.7%

16. Greece – 552.8b, 343b, 161.1%

17. Italy – 2.31tr, 1.823tr, 126.7%

18. Australia – 891.26b, 800.2b, 111.3%

19. Hungary – 207.92b, 196.6b, 105.7%

20. USA – 13.454tr, 14.26tr, 94.3%

reply to post by belial259


Pedanticism on semantics will get you nowhere here lol.. Stable as in ITS NOT COLLAPSING ANYMORE.. That should have been pretty easy to comprehend.

We are talking about something that happened today.. So how does something that happened last Friday have anything to do with the outcome of todays intervention? We stuck in a time loop or something.. Will this Friday be last Friday? No.

Explain the benefit of dissolving the EURO?

Originally posted by Dermo
Explain how you know the EMU will break up please..

Here look at this.

Euro vs. US Dollar

That's today since your "confidence" inspiring announcement.

Originally posted by Dermo
We are talking about something that happened today.. So how does something that happened last Friday have anything to do with the outcome of todays intervention? We stuck in a time loop or something.. Will this Friday be last Friday? No.

Maybe. Haven't you figured it out yet? This is just a huge pump and dump. The announcement. The money. No substance at all. It won't make a difference.



[edit on 10-5-2010 by belial259]

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
1. Ireland – 2.386tr, 188.4b, 1267%

\

Erm.. Irish national debt is 82 billion EURO's..

www.financedublin.com...

Where did you get that figure?

Semi Public debt in return for assets might account for it as there is a National Asset Management Agency but that is separate from Public finances.. But those are actual hard assets.. Property, Banks, Shares etc in countries and corporations all over the world..

That was the Irish government's Bank Bailout early this year..

it's looking very grim at the moment.

The rich get richer.

And for above posters, STABLE?!!?! ARE YOU #TING ME?!?! The stock market nearly collapsed last week and you think that the economy is stable?!!?

Get with the now man bloody hell... some people...

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Mr Zeropoint]

Originally posted by Dermo
That was the Irish government's Bank Bailout early this year..

First or second? And there will be a third.

Fannie Mae seeks $8.4 billion from govt after loss

Fannie Mae is an American too big to fail. What does this say to you about the state of the banking system?

Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by Dermo
That was the Irish government's Bank Bailout early this year..

First or second? And there will be a third.

And Ireland will bail them out how?

Originally posted by Mr Zeropoint
And for above posters, STABLE?!!?! ARE YOU #TING ME?!?! The stock market nearly collapsed last week and you think that the economy is stable?!!?

Get with the now man bloody hell... some people...

Well better down and up than just down.. And if you had bothered to read my post.. I said the trillion dollar Mechanism from the EU was to stabilize.. And that only came into force today.. So how does Friday matter?

Oh yea, I forgot that everyone on this site only wants bad things to happen all the time..

Ok so.. what the EU did this morning didn't help the markets and won't make any difference at all..

The EURO will crash tomorrow afternoon after Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland crash in the morning..

The dollar next week and the world will end in 2012 when our Reptilian bloodline overlords finish their New World Order plans to dominate mankind through the destruction of the financial Markets that started in mid 2008..

Am I "getting with the now" yet?

If people on this site want to think the markets are going to completely collapse and Europe will destroy itself in another civil war, work away.. I for one am sick of listening to fairy tails from depressive and borderline mentally unstable people and would prefer to work for a solution as opposed to adding to the problem by complaining and speculating..

That obviously makes me an idiot here though.. doesn't it..

sorry bud didn't have time to read your entire post

Id like to know straight up from you about this bailout.
How is it that you expect to solve these problems
How can you solve a countries debt crisis..............
...... With more debt?

You can't
And that's the point

It has nothing to do with a conspiracy, the system is rigged to begin, and default's / bailout's and inflation are literally built into the system, until, it inevtiably collapses and is built from scratch again by a new currency after everybody defaults on their loans.

The money owed to the banks will ALWAYS outweigh the money in circulation due to interest.

Don't discredit everybody by slandering us with this stupid bull# your rambling on about, reptilians and the like. Were being factual, and trying to educate, I cannot educate incompotent people.

We don't want anything bad to happen buddy, but thing's are, and nobody but us deal's with that instead of ignoring it like the rest of the world, 'Meh politics, I don't understand it'



[edit on 10-5-2010 by Mr Zeropoint]

Originally posted by Dermo


The dollar next week and the world will end in 2012 when our Reptilian bloodline overlords finish their New World Order plans to dominate mankind through the destruction of the financial Markets that started in mid 2008..

Nope , but you are close.

It is the "greys" who will be our master's.

Reptilian's are so the 90's.

Originally posted by Dermo
The EURO will crash tomorrow afternoon after Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland crash in the morning..

The dollar next week and the world will end in 2012 when our Reptilian bloodline overlords finish their New World Order plans to dominate mankind through the destruction of the financial Markets that started in mid 2008..

Am I "getting with the now" yet?

No you're not. You're not getting it at all. They just kicked the can. It won't collapse tomorrow. But they've done nothing at all to make the situation better. They've just pushed it back a bit.

But by all means go out and be bullish in a volatile rigged market. I'm not doing it anymore. I'd rather have my cake and eat it too, now, while I've got time. Because what this has done is bought some time.

It's a lot like this BP oil thing. They're gonna spray chemicals to break up the oil spill. Sure it might dilute the oil a bit but it just makes things more toxic in the end.

Diminishing Returns

reply to post by Mr Zeropoint


I do understand that idea.. But as I also said above.. The EU hasn't used this money to bail out anyone.. It has been signed in as a protection mechanism that is to be used to halt a default.. So its not actually debt yet.. And may never be.. We'll have to wait and see.

Originally posted by Sean48
Nope , but you are close.

It is the "greys" who will be our master's.

Reptilian's are so the 90's.

I'd prefer to be eaten by a giant Lizard man than anally probed by a little smooth Grey thing with big eyes..

Thats just me though lol

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