Huge National Debts Could Push Euro Zone into Bankruptcy

Huge National Debts Could Push Euro Zone into Bankruptcy

www.spiegel.de

Greece is only the beginning. The world's leading economies have long lived beyond their means, and the financial crisis caused government debt to swell dramatically. Now the bill is coming due, but not all countries will be able to pay it.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The US government wasn't just motivated by compassion for the Greeks. In fact, Washington is worried about being drawn into the vortex of national bankruptcies itself. The national debt has exploded in the United States in the last two years, more than in almost any other country, because the government has had to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to support the economy and banks.

The financial crisis is a global problem, not that of individual countries as some would like to believe. Greece is the beginning of the end in my opinion and it has all been orchestrated. Our current financial system is unsustainable while emerging powers are threatening to challenge our (Western) financial monopoly over the world. They worsened this crisis by wasting billions on bail outs of financial institutions and countries that eventually will tumble down anyway.

Our financial system is going to be replaced by a brand new system that will ensure a tight grip for those in power such as the Rothschilds at our expense. I believe that people are going to suffer badly from the coming economic collapse and at the same time it will deal with rising threats such as China (which will not be given time to minimize its dependence on exports as its middle class is not capable yet to absorb the blow).

What I personally fear most is the conflict such a financial crisis would lead to. Naturally, everything will turn to normal again, but I expect the coming years to be bloody and very messy and it's gonna affect everyone, it makes no distinction between nationality.

It aint rocket science to understand that the infinite spending triggers hyper-inflation, which will be catastrophic and lead to the collapse of our financial system. Remember the Weimar Republic? At the height of the hyperinflation, Hitler committed a coupe d'etat anyone sees the parallel with the current unrest, from uprising in Greece to the foundation of many militias in the US and the rise of extremist demagogic populist politicians such as Wilders? People don't learn from history and the situation that is unfolding right now, is a perfect scenario for history to repeat itself.





www.spiegel.de
(visit the link for the full news article)





[edit on 4-5-2010 by Mdv2]

Yup we're screwed alright.

If you aren't in the top 0.0000001% of global wealth my advice would be to lay low. Hurricanes snap big trees, but little tufts of grass can just roll with the wind and rain, as they say.

It's an old Wall Street saying that when you fail, the important thing is to fail in the same way as everybody else fails. This is a frustrating but very revealing comment. There is a certain wisdom in being "mediocre" and just letting the waves wash over you. The survivalists have been building their bunkers for 40 years, but Joe Sixpack still has the same cozy warm spot to snooze in front of the TV that's always been there for him, for the most part.

Of course, if it gets bad enough that won't help you much, either...just ask the 20 - 50 million who died in the WWII era. And one very unpleasant possible consequence is war for all sorts of reasons...demand for labor, a way of wiping the slate clean, a universal reset button, a way of releasing social tensions while keeping the basic framework of a troubled society in place. Watch out, the weather is grim out there.

Yep this is inevitable. You simply have to look at history and the mistakes that were made and compare with the present situation. The Economy is a time bomb, it is simply a matter of time until it explodes.

And this is something that really, really annoys me. I mean there are so many clever reporters and analysts and institutes that talk about economics and finance in general. How is it possible that most of them miss the fact that almost all countries keep digging their own graves? It is not exactly rocket science.

The debt increases every year and with that the interest you have to pay rises which in turn reduces the amount of money you can actually use for education, health or whatever. Every year it gets a little worse. Every year politicians tell us "Well, we will reduce new debt to absolute zero until *insert date 5 to 10 years from now*"

Every year we are getting closer to the point where you simply cannot pay for the basics because the interest you have to pay is simply too much.

Are the all blind? What do they think will happen 10 years from now? The debt magically dissappears? What on earth are they thinking?

I don´t get it.

Originally posted by Nightaudit

And this is something that really, really annoys me. I mean there are so many clever reporters and analysts and institutes that talk about economics and finance in general. How is it possible that most of them miss the fact that almost all countries keep digging their own graves? It is not exactly rocket science.

It's a lot like George Orwell's system of "doublethink."

For example, let's look at his concept of "crimestop" for a moment:

"...The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called...crimestop. Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to [the party ideology], and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

-Orwell, 1984

On one level people realize full well what is going on, or at the very least know things don't add up. But they deceive themselves because in many situations self-deception actually serves quite well in the struggle for self-preservation. It's been shown that you can convince others more of anything if you truly believe it yourself. And while rationally this would suggest that the healthy way to live is to thus only tell the truth, in fact it splits the brain such that the outermost ego-shell remains in a kind of semi-trance where their understanding is purposefully surpressed. Meanwhile, the the uglier task of actually being aware of what is going on is delegated to a semi-subconscious level.

Let's look at your example of media "experts," pundits, and their ilk. Because of media consolidation, their ultimate employers/gravy train are people with vested interest. For example, a big media conglomerate wants its shares to stay high, so it always talks up the broader market in general no matter what. It wants to keep hope in its audience, keep them feeling good, keep them pumping their savings into the market. So its all rah-rah. If you can't do it convincingly you simply are passed over in that world.

Smart people who can leap nimbly from one conceptual system to another are needed to always put the right spin on a rapidly changing world. On one level they have a good grasp of reality. But what comes out of their mouth is not based on a quest for truth but a need to push an agenda, an entire worldview. To keep the the two parts of their brain performing these two difficult and contradictory tasks, they need to cultivate a kind of inner orwellian "protective stupidity," among other little sick mental tricks.

Some of the more sour and cynical among them retain an nearly-conscious awareness of the entire process, and this often manifests in dark humor, for example. The more mediocre majority simply turn on the mental laughing-gass and fool their outer selves far beyond the point of necessity to become babbling nimrods.

[edit on 5/4/10 by silent thunder]

Very good point there. I am aware that there is a lot of special interest involved, especially in the msm. What surprises me though is that it is so obvious. I mean it is soooooo obvious! As I said who can look at the situation and think it is going to be fine?

The professor who tought me macroeconomics in university even was not really aware of this. I mean he knew about debt and about the fact that it is going to be a problem somehow, but he kind of refused to accept it as a real problem.

Hard to explain. Maybe the "crimestop" aspect came to play here. I don´t know.

There are only two possible outcomes imho. One is that all debt will be simply erased and we start again. It is only a matter of years until we reach this point. Greece allready crossed that line where they are not able to pay the debt anymore without external help. And so will others.

The second is that the system collapses in form of a drastic devaluation of the currency. This could start with the euro or the dollar, it doesn´t really matter. Economy is global, it is connected like a spiderweb. USA fails, Europe follows. Europe fails, USA follows.

So we see a devaluation, followed instantly by a stock market crash. Similar to the last crisis but much MUCH worse. Then some clever people propably will setup a new system with the amero or whatever.

The point is, that this cannot continue forever. It is absoluty impossible and incredibly obvious. And it is still a mystery why nobody is really dragging this topic in front of the public eye. They will when it allready is to late, like in the last crisis that came so "unexpectedly".

I don´t know. Am I seeing it wrong? Is there another way out that I am not aware of? Is there a reason for them to be so relaxed about this?

[edit on 4-5-2010 by Nightaudit]

Originally posted by Nightaudit
Yep this is inevitable. You simply have to look at history and the mistakes that were made and compare with the present situation. The Economy is a time bomb, it is simply a matter of time until it explodes.

And this is something that really, really annoys me. I mean there are so many clever reporters and analysts and institutes that talk about economics and finance in general. How is it possible that most of them miss the fact that almost all countries keep digging their own graves? It is not exactly rocket science.

If renowned newspapers would suggest that the economy is imminently going to collapse, it would cause severe panic among the masses, turning our belief in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stock exchanges would crash and the collapse would unfold instantly. Many know it is going to happen, but the masses are made to belief we have had the worst and everything is going to be alright.

Originally posted by silent thunder
On one level people realize full well what is going on, or at the very least know things don't add up. But they deceive themselves because in many situations self-deception actually serves quite well in the struggle for self-preservation. It's been shown that you can convince others more of anything if you truly believe it yourself. And while rationally this would suggest that the healthy way to live is to thus only tell the truth, in fact it splits the brain such that the outermost ego-shell remains in a kind of semi-trance where their understanding is purposefully surpressed. Meanwhile, the the uglier task of actually being aware of what is going on is delegated to a semi-subconscious level.

That's a very interesting thought. I've stopped sharing my belief with most friends and family as they either ridicule it or are frightened about what is to happen. I've always wondered why that is as I personally accept it and have a good sense of rationality. In other words I continue living my life without denying what is very probably about to happen. The masses however seem to prefer to 'suppress' this reality.

Originally posted by NightauditThe point is, that this cannot continue forever. It is absoluty impossible and incredibly obvious. And it is still a mystery why nobody is really dragging this topic in front of the public eye. They will when it allready is to late, like in the last crisis that came so "unexpectedly".
[edit on 4-5-2010 by Nightaudit]

The numbers are so big, its easy to forget that not all the debt will come due at the same time. The threats to the system come at specific "inflection points" where particularly large amounts come due at the same time.

I think the ultimate "solution" short of revolutionary change can only be massive inflation over time, that will melt away the real value of the debt burden even as the nominal value continues to escalate. The only hope is to keep interest rates artifcically low and pump massive amounts of cash into the economy specifically targeted at reducing debt. Which is kind of what they are doing now. They are creating more debt, but I'm guessing the hope (unspoken and probably not consciously articulated at all) is that the rate of moeny creation will outpace the rising interest rate burden that keeps coming due. Its a kind of "artificial illusion," like MC Escher's endlessly rising staircase. It works as long as they can keep people believing.

In the end of course there will be overheating and collapse...unless the actual pace of creation of new value through new technology somehow rises to keep up with the new money being printed. Technically possible but unlikely.

Still, by this sort of technique they can keep the whole ball of wax moving for quite some time, potentially. At least another decade, say, which is an eternity in the business world, practically speaking. The endless refrain: "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it..." Someday logic dictates a washed-out bridge but that point is still in the mysterious future.

That's it. I have got to get my government to start investing in Silver...

This may be naive, but at what point are all the debt ridden countries going to just absolve themselves of the debt and start over? What's to keep them from just wiping the slate clean?

reply to post by S.R.I.A.


That's a good question. I'm curious to know as well..

But it might bring some drawbacks with it. Especially with the holders of the debt.

Originally posted by S.R.I.A.
This may be naive, but at what point are all the debt ridden countries going to just absolve themselves of the debt and start over? What's to keep them from just wiping the slate clean?

Think about how you would feel if someone owed you billions of dollars and just decided that they were wiping the slate clean and not paying it back. Wars have been started over less.

reply to post by S.R.I.A.



They can actually. But then no one will trade with them.

When the second group of holding companies are unable to pay the private group of bank holding companies the money they owe them from the credit extended to them to buy the assets and liabilities, it will
precip-itate those bank holding companies inability to pay the loans
extended to them by the prime banks to buy the foreclosed land which
was used as collateral to secure those loans. Ultimately, the prime
banks will end up with all the properties.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Johnathan Mays testimony should clear up everything.

Related article:

www.nytimes.com...

With a Graphic display of the situation in Europe:

www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by silent thunder
.........
I think the ultimate "solution" short of revolutionary change can only be massive inflation over time, that will melt away the real value of the debt burden even as the nominal value continues to escalate.
..........

What a lot of people fail to understand is that the rich elites caused this "economic problem"... We in the U.S. have a Socialist government whose powerhungry politicians like Hillary, Emmanuel Rahm and others claimed "we can use the crisis to implement things that could have never happened normally".... And they even said it in the open...

The rich Socialist elites want population control and this is one way to go... by creating conflict, economic problems etc... The Russians, and the Chinese government have had a play in this as well since they have always wanted to bring down the west so they could become the mayor super-powers, and the Socialist elitists seem to be working alongside the Russian, and Chinese government to reach their goals.

Let's hope it doesn't turn bloddy, but when Joe and Jane find themselves with no money to feed their children, and the supermarket empty they will do anything they can to feed their family.

America is just as bad, but the military for the american empire has to be kept going at all costs.

America is no different than europe.

The anglo american empire should be paying for this all.

[edit on 5/4/2010 by andy1033]

You people are too paranoid. The only problem here is, that we're all in the euro zone, but I doubt this will cause any serious devaluation. This isn't the first time a country goes bankrupt (look at Argentina for example) and certainly not the last.
The Greeks will just have to tighten their belts and bear it, no matter how much they protest. There is no other option for them, unless they want sanctions from IMF, which would leave them without gas, pharmaceuticals and other necessities. That's just how things work. They'll be punished for years of laziness, conservative thinking and tax evasion.
The same goes for any other country, that will go bankrupt.

Originally posted by Shenron
........
That's just how things work. They'll be punished for years of laziness, conservative thinking and tax evasion.
The same goes for any other country, that will go bankrupt.

The laziness comes from welfare, and the "Socialization" of the west... That is the reason why we are in this mess we are in...

In America, we will never go bankrupt.
Why? Because we have guns. If we cannot pay in gold or silver, we pay in LEAD!
We're not afraid too, either. We just regret that the banksters themselves don't come to collect, they send some dumb schmuck that might just be a neighbor.
Try to teach a schmuck "be careful who you work for"!