Why was Hitler chosen to spy on NSDAP?

reply to post by foxhoundone


They say his every move was choreographed , perhaps he was groomed to be this tool for others, because he was a natural actor and perhaps a little bit earnest as well,where his pathological hatred came from for Jews is a poser?
He looks Jewish more than Aryan, he had a Jewish Doctor, his cronies that surrounde him in the Nazi party were not blond and blue eyed Gods, trade unionists were interned in concentration camps before jews were?
Some say he was more ANTI COMMUNIST and that he saw JEWS as Communist sympathisers ie Stalins allies.
He truly fought Britain would ally with him to destroy Stalinism, but he was out pokered?
He was aided and armed in order to take the lifeforce out of USSR , not to destroy it?
Two collossal war machines future conquerers of the Earth palyed against each other by the cunning Brits and Americans?

There's so many twists and turns from WW2, Take for instance the BEF "British Expeditionary Force" outmaneuvered and left to fend for them selves at Dunkirk, (Heck even the Royal Navy was not for saving them) Maybe Hitler wanted the experienced military manpower(Britishes Frei Korp) for the campaign in eastern Europe "operation Barbarossa"

This was some plan for a mere Korporal IMO

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
Not sure what forum to put this in.

Why was Hitler chosen to spy on the NSDAP? During World War 1 he was just an infantryman, right? What made the army choose him as a spy?

MY guess is that the army knew he was very bright and loyal and that's why he got the offer to spy on the DAP. After a while he decided he was much abler than the people in the party, started to make speeches, and in 1921 took the party over completely.

His origins remain a mystery, especially, when and how he became politically active, and how a man of such an obscure background reached such soaring heights of political power in Germany. Furthermore, he was nothing more than a lowly corporal, snow shoveler, and defunct artist. Everything he had taken part in before joining the Nazi Party was by and large mired in failure. Moreover, he was not even German, but from a back water in Austria. Why was Hitler sent to spy on the German Workers Party (GWP) which would later be known as the National Socialist Workers Party (NSDAP), which would one day be his own political party? Well, by all accounts given about his actions in the First World War, he had an exemplary service record, and earned Germany's highest military honor, the Iron Cross.

Hitler, much as we would like him to have been a coward and a shirker, was in fact a very good soldier. He remained calm under fire, showed respect to his superiors and never questioned his orders. Whilst casualties mounted and morale fell away, Hitler unstintingly carried on with his duty. He was rewarded with a promotion to Lance Corporal.

As the fighting continued the List regiment was used in a number of assaults just to the south of Ypres. Facing the French this time, the Germans received yet another mauling. Hitler earned an Iron Cross 2nd Class in an engagement near Croonaert Wood, Wytschaete. During the fighting and under heavy fire, Hitler, now appointed Meldeganger (a dispatch runner), stumbled across a seriously wounded officer left out in the open.

Along with a friend, he managed to pull the wounded man back to safety. Hitler received his award in December 1914.

www.firstworldwar.com...

Under conventional wisdom, given his position as a courier during the war delivering messages to troop formations in the meat grinder known as trench warfare, he had the experience and qualifications necessary to partake in such an assignment. His association with the group actually had an unintended affect to what his superiors most likely expected, he was sent by the German Army to gather intelligence on the group because allegations of revolutionary activities.

The German Army was worried that it was a left-wing revolutionary group and sent Adolf Hitler, one of its education officers, to spy on the organization. Hitler discovered that the party's political ideas were similar to his own. He approved of Drexler's (Anton Drexler, founder of German Workers Party (GWP)) German nationalism and anti-Semitism but was unimpressed with the way the party was organized. Although there as a spy, Hitler could not restrain himself when a member made a point he disagreed with, and he stood up and made a passionate speech on the subject.

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...

So, this man seems to have been sent on what must have been a routine assignment, and mix in the anger boiling from the blistering defeat from the war, and for that intelligence asset to discover that the targeted group has similar views to his own. In so doing, he was able to go back to his superiors with shoddy information, and less than serious reports because of his deep felt sympathies for the group. In hindsight, this might have been one of the most epic fails of the 20th century? Hitler would later become a member of the group, and brought others to it. Most notably, Ernst Roehm and Hitler's superior officer in the German Army during his career as a spy.

Hitler became the DAP's 55th member and received the number 555, as the DAP added '500' to every member's number to exaggerate the party's strength. He later claimed to be the seventh party member (he was in fact the seventh executive member of the party's central committee; he would later wear the Golden Party Badge number 1).

en.wikipedia.org...

My take on his ascension has a lot to do with relationship with Ernst Roehm. This man was a decorated war hero from the First World War, and had unfettered support from millions of disenfranchised war veterans who would later become the provocateurs and hoodlums known as the brown shirts or Sturmabteilung (SA). In addition to being a soldier's soldier, he had access to a lucrative revenue stream to get the party off the ground.

In the next few weeks Hitler brought several members of his army into the party, including one of his commanding officers, Captain Ernst Roehm. The arrival of Roehm was an important development as he had access to the army political fund and was able to transfer some of the money into the GWP.

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...

In all practicality, Captain Roehm may have given Hitler the order to pull of the curtain up on the GWP in the first place? Although, I have yet to see any actual accreditation for the claim, it appears only reasonable given Roehm's position as Hitler's Commanding Officer.

Edit: Thanks to ATS member, Freeborn, it turns out my facts are a little off. Moreover, Hitler was ordered by German Army Captain, Karl Mayr, while the two were members Reichswehr to spy on the NSDAP. Roehm and Hitler would meet shortly thereafter.

Captain Karl Mayr (1883 – 1945) was a General Staff officer and Adolf Hitler's immediate superior in an Army Intelligence Division in the Reichswehr, 1919-1920. He later became Hitler's opponent, and wrote in his memoirs that it was General Erich Ludendorff who had personally ordered him to have Hitler join the Nazi party and build it up. As far as it is known, his last rank was major. He fled to France in 1933 after the Nazi rise to power, was tracked down by the Gestapo, arrested and imprisoned, and later murdered at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp in 1945.

en.wikipedia.org...

Then comes the damning accusation of the two men being love birds? Although largely speculative, because there is no actual recorded history of these two men ever having a tryst.

However, given Roehm's own proven sexual history and the close relationship he had with the young Hitler, it would appear likely. Ernst Roehm was a noted homosexual. As a matter of fact, the day of his arrest when Hitler stormed Roehm's bed chamber during his purge of the Nazi Party of potential opponents on the "Night of the Long Knives," he was found in bed with another man.

Could Hitler's assignment to spy on the NSDAP be a gift from a lover? This article may shed light on this particular angle of the topic at hand, and it is highlighting the book written by Lothar Machtan Phd, "The Hidden Hitler."

He met at that time Capt. Ernst Roehm, a well-connected army officer who soon offered him his first job -- as a political spy for the army within a newly organized workers' party. Hitler's political rise from that point was "meteoric," Machtan writes. Politically "an unknown quantity" when he joined the party in 1919, three years later he had become an important political influence -- "the repository of the deutsch folkisch [roughly German ultranationalist] movement's hopes."

Hitler's rise largely was due to the two brilliant homosexuals who mentored and tutored him: Roehm, a notorious pederast and a contemporary . . .

findarticles.com...

Dr. Machtan had a discussion about his book with readers of the Washington Post and responded to the allegations floating around about a sexual relationship between Roehm and Hitler, and it this point, remains only speculative.

Sunnyvale, Calif.: Did you find evidence of a sexual relationship between Hitler and Ernst Roehm? Did you find new evidence of the scope and history of the "Final Solution" as it was applied to the gay community (pink triangles)?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: There were some contemporaries who say that there was a relationship, but there has been no contestable proof of that. In my eyes, they were two different types of homosexuals. But anyway, they were very close friends.

discuss.washingtonpost.com...

Until something is discovered more substantial about Hitler and Roehm's alleged relationship, instead of the he said she said back and forth, I will rely on conventional wisdom as to why Hitler was dispatched to gather intelligence on the GWP. His military experience is all that is required for him to get the job assignment, because he was a dispatch in the First World World War and was required to deliver information under hellish conditions.


[edit on 22-5-2010 by Jakes51 - Fact correction - thanks to ATS member, Freeborn]



[edit on 22-5-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Jakes51


Hitler didn't get introduced to Ernst Rohm until around October 1919 about a month or so after Captain Mayr had ordered Hitler and his colleagues to go to the meeting at Snerneckerbrau.

Of course Rohm played an important role in Hitler's rise to leadership of the NSDAP.
Was there homosexual overtones to their relationship?
Possibly.
I suspect we'll never know now.
There is a whole industry involved in researching facts about and around Hitler, no definitive proof has been found yet, and is getting increasingly unlikely.

Rohm's contacts and mere presence play a massive part in Hitler's rise, but the turn of events prior to Hitler 'spying' on the DAP are as outlined in my post on the previous page.

As such, Captain Karl Mayr was the person directly responsible for sending Hitler to the meeting.

As a side note, Mayr later opposed Hitler and in his memoirs claimed that General Erich Ludendorff personally ordered him to get Hitler to join the DAP and build it up.
Mayr was later arrested and died in Buchenwald.

Personally i find that hard to beleive, Hitler would not have been on Ludendorff's radar at the time and whilst his oratory skills were beginning to be recognised he still had not shown any leadership abilities at all.

However, Hitler did later persuade Ludendorff to take part in The Beer Hall Putsch in Munich in 1923 and he was a vocal of supporter of Hitler in the early 1920's.
This later turned to disgust and when Ludendorff's former colleague Hindenburg apponited Hitler Chancellor in 1933 he famously sent Hindenburg a telegram containing this famous quote ;
“ By appointing Hitler Chancellor of the Reich, you have handed over our sacred German Fatherland to one of the greatest demagogues of all time. I prophesy to you this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss and will inflict immeasurable woe on our nation. Future generations will curse you in your grave for this action "

Hitler was a great orator and inspired total faith and obedience in otherwise strong and proud men.
He learnt these skills in the chaos that was Munich from 1918-1923.
Many people sought to exploit Hitler's charisma and to manipulate him for their own purposes, they all failed miserably.


[edit on 22/5/10 by Freeborn]

According to John Toland in his biography of Hitler, Captain Mayr chose him

because of his "exemplary" war record and, perhaps, out of pity. "When I first met him he was like a tired stray dog looking for a master." Mayr got the impression that Hitler "was ready to throw in his lot with anyone who would show him kindness" and that he was "totally unconcerned with the German people and their destinies." pg 67-68

This was a miscalculation on Mayr's part because Hitler by this time was very concerned with the state of his adopted country.

[edit on 22-5-2010 by TheComte]

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Jakes51

 

Hitler didn't get introduced to Ernst Rohm until around October 1919 about a month or so after Captain Mayr had ordered Hitler and his colleagues to go to the meeting at Snerneckerbrau.

Thanks for clearing up my discrepancy. I gave credit to your information in my original post. Apparently, I got some of the facts crossed? My history teacher would have my head for that. Pity for Captain Mayr, and the disastrous consequences this one order would have for Germany and the World. He must have thought it was a routine assignment, but I am certain after seeing what become of the obscure corporal, he was beside himself with immeasurable grief as he wasted away in Buchenwald Prison.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Of course Rohm played an important role in Hitler's rise to leadership of the NSDAP.
Was there homosexual overtones to their relationship?
Possibly.
I suspect we'll never know now.
There is a whole industry involved in researching facts about and around Hitler, no definitive proof has been found yet, and is getting increasingly unlikely.

You are correct, and we may never know definitively if Adolf Hitler had homosexual relations with Roehm? I made every effort to ensure that homosexuality allegations are mere here say at the moment, and lacking concrete historical evidence.

Still, just the circumstantial evidence makes it appear that there may have been? New information is being discovered all the time, who knows we may know the facts someday? Hitler and his SS cronies did go to great lengths to dismember the SA and its largely homosexual leadership who may have had damning information on the early years of Adolf Hitler? This was during their purge operation, "Night of the Long Knives." Perhaps, one day we will know for certain?

Originally posted by Freeborn
Rohm's contacts and mere presence play a massive part in Hitler's rise, but the turn of events prior to Hitler 'spying' on the DAP are as outlined in my post on the previous page.

As such, Captain Karl Mayr was the person directly responsible for sending Hitler to the meeting.

As a side note, Mayr later opposed Hitler and in his memoirs claimed that General Erich Ludendorff personally ordered him to get Hitler to join the DAP and build it up.
Mayr was later arrested and died in Buchenwald.

Personally i find that hard to beleive, Hitler would not have been on Ludendorff's radar at the time and whilst his oratory skills were beginning to be recognised he still had not shown any leadership abilities at all.

However, Hitler did later persuade Ludendorff to take part in The Beer Hall Putsch in Munich in 1923 and he was a vocal of supporter of Hitler in the early 1920's.
This later turned to disgust and when Ludendorff's former colleague Hindenburg apponited Hitler Chancellor in 1933 he famously sent Hindenburg a telegram containing this famous quote ;
“ By appointing Hitler Chancellor of the Reich, you have handed over our sacred German Fatherland to one of the greatest demagogues of all time. I prophesy to you this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss and will inflict immeasurable woe on our nation. Future generations will curse you in your grave for this action "

Again, thanks for the information and the clarification of who expressly gave the order that would change the course of history. It is a pity that Mayr made the call, which to him at the time, was probably considered a routine assignment. Oh how wrong he was and his superior, General Erich Ludendorff. At least Mayr and Ludendorff, recognized their mistake and opposed that monster. Sadly, the snowball had become an avalanche and nothing could be done to reverse the course being taking by Hitler and his goons. That memo sent to Reich's President, Paul Von Hindenburg, is very chilling about the foretelling of future events.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Hitler was a great orator and inspired total faith and obedience in otherwise strong and proud men.
He learnt these skills in the chaos that was Munich from 1918-1923.
Many people sought to exploit Hitler's charisma and to manipulate him for their own purposes, they all failed miserably.

Failure is a kind assessment for their follies. I would use a much strong stronger word. I guess it boils down to when the elites think they have their puppet, and the puppet cuts the strings and attacks the handlers. It was an epic failure, and practically all of his supporters payed a hefty cost in one respect on another. Karma is a (insert expletive)! It is very sad that normal everyday people had to pay such a hefty price as well. Thanks for the reply, and your correction to my original post.