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Suburban Ohio Man Resists Forclosure with Direct Action
page: 3share:
They're getting ready to do a live concert now on the front porch. No Sheriff's have showed up yet, and there is enough food and water inside the
house to hold out for weeks. They're not leaving.
reply to post by hotbakedtater
But this isn't about you...?
I think you are actually contradicting yourself throughout your posts. Well, maybe not contradicting, but you are arguing both sides without realizing it. If that man, lost everything, im pretty sure he could survive as well. But he's not ready to give up everything to a broken system. Your idea of adaptation is like using glue to fix shattered glass. People are the glue that hold the system together, and at some point there are so many cracks, no longer is there any transparency. it becomes futile to give in to the system. The man can be using his money to buy food and water if thats all he needs, but he can't even do that, because he's getting raped by something he doesn't even understand. This man is taking the first step to truly adapting, by rejecting what is broken and standing up for what he believes is HIS. He may not have a solution (or does he? imagine if everyone that shared his problems, chose to do it his way), but at least he identified the problem. You yourself say that material goods have no tangible value, they are just material, so why put a price tag on a home, why should he keep paying for what HE believes is HIS.
But this isn't about you...?
I think you are actually contradicting yourself throughout your posts. Well, maybe not contradicting, but you are arguing both sides without realizing it. If that man, lost everything, im pretty sure he could survive as well. But he's not ready to give up everything to a broken system. Your idea of adaptation is like using glue to fix shattered glass. People are the glue that hold the system together, and at some point there are so many cracks, no longer is there any transparency. it becomes futile to give in to the system. The man can be using his money to buy food and water if thats all he needs, but he can't even do that, because he's getting raped by something he doesn't even understand. This man is taking the first step to truly adapting, by rejecting what is broken and standing up for what he believes is HIS. He may not have a solution (or does he? imagine if everyone that shared his problems, chose to do it his way), but at least he identified the problem. You yourself say that material goods have no tangible value, they are just material, so why put a price tag on a home, why should he keep paying for what HE believes is HIS.
reply to post by 4by4dave
One could argue that the contract was not held to the letter of the law.
I would also argue that if the debtor cannot find the original note, the bank has no authority to seize the property.
I would have this person look into the bank's records to see if they still hold the note or mortgage. If they do not, the bank cannot even prove that this person has any obligation to pay them anything.
We all know the banks bundled these mortgages and sold them in these debt vehicles, masquerading as investments. Then they bet against them, just like ol Goldman Sachs did.
Anyway, good luck to him.
One could argue that the contract was not held to the letter of the law.
I would also argue that if the debtor cannot find the original note, the bank has no authority to seize the property.
I would have this person look into the bank's records to see if they still hold the note or mortgage. If they do not, the bank cannot even prove that this person has any obligation to pay them anything.
We all know the banks bundled these mortgages and sold them in these debt vehicles, masquerading as investments. Then they bet against them, just like ol Goldman Sachs did.
Anyway, good luck to him.
Originally posted by endisnighe
When you buy something, should you not own it?
That's exactly why Keith isn't leaving. He was talking to a reporter from Fox earlier and mentioned that he had essentially already paid for the house twice over in the course of just a single loan. He tried to get a remod, tried for a payment plan, tried everything.
His initial loan application had the correct income information on it. When he took out the loan, he was a UAW auto-worker with a very secure job....20 years ago. That may as well have been on another planet the way things are now.
I cashed in some vacation days for this, and I'm not going anywhere either...as long as I can anyway....the bill collectors are after me too.
i listen to every one argue back and forth but so far NO ONES stated the oves.
Can you say COMPOUND interest . whats the difference between a 80k car and a 80 k house ?
the car is payed off in five years wile the house takes 35 now why is this come on your smart enough to understand it if you try.
well the cars interest is based on the value of the car and only that value.
like so 80.000$ with a interest rate of 5% = total pay back of 96,000$ then its YOURS .
now the home on the other hand goes like so 80,000$ 5% COMPOUND interest. so they compute it like so you say i can afford to pay 630$ a month on this ok they say the interest on that is 430$ the rest goes towards what you owe . so now you just payed them 630$ but they only put 200 towards what you acutly owe on the home what your doing here is paying interest on THE INTEREST people now the problem with this system is as follows .
that 80k house acutly cost around 150k at 5% in 30 years you waant your money back so you now sell that house for 150k (got to make a few bucks you know. so now 30 years later the house has dobbled in cost and 30 years later the same thing happens . theres no way that the rate of pay can keep pace with a 110 % incress every 30 years a system made like this will fail it has to .
then people point fingers at each other and say he dident plan well.
when the reality is the raising cost rate is way out of sink with the raising pay rate GRANTERING failer.
now if a home lone was base on the value of the lone as with a car then you could easly pay off a 80k house in five years as with a car.
but for 200 years now the banks have used this COMPOUND interest to get a return of OVER 100% on therfe money if this was a car long the interest rate would be 110% now who in there right mind would pay that but yet for 200 years we aloway banks to charge this rate! and say what a graet deal were getting.
planing lol what a joke this system will fail it must maby not today or even next year but when you use this system to creat your wealth the cost of living rate is many times higher then the pay rates can keep up with.
Of corse you all know this after all im 44 when i was 14 (30 years agaio)
a new midclass home was 55 to 6o k now its 145 to 190k
a loft of bread was 75 cents now its 2$ for the cheep stuff.
a pound of buger was 75 cents now its over 3$
i got payed 525 an hour then now i get payed 725 an hour .
ok more math 525 - bread 75 cents leaves me 450 now 725 - bread 2$ leaves me 525 the incress has left me in much worse shape then 30 years agaio at a much lower wage.
heck a gallon of gas 75 cents 5.25 got you 7 gallons
now today 725 gets you 2.3 gallons well now do the math people in 5 more years at this rate of brake down the gape will be so narrow that you my friend will be living in a 3rd world country
Can you say COMPOUND interest . whats the difference between a 80k car and a 80 k house ?
the car is payed off in five years wile the house takes 35 now why is this come on your smart enough to understand it if you try.
well the cars interest is based on the value of the car and only that value.
like so 80.000$ with a interest rate of 5% = total pay back of 96,000$ then its YOURS .
now the home on the other hand goes like so 80,000$ 5% COMPOUND interest. so they compute it like so you say i can afford to pay 630$ a month on this ok they say the interest on that is 430$ the rest goes towards what you owe . so now you just payed them 630$ but they only put 200 towards what you acutly owe on the home what your doing here is paying interest on THE INTEREST people now the problem with this system is as follows .
that 80k house acutly cost around 150k at 5% in 30 years you waant your money back so you now sell that house for 150k (got to make a few bucks you know. so now 30 years later the house has dobbled in cost and 30 years later the same thing happens . theres no way that the rate of pay can keep pace with a 110 % incress every 30 years a system made like this will fail it has to .
then people point fingers at each other and say he dident plan well.
when the reality is the raising cost rate is way out of sink with the raising pay rate GRANTERING failer.
now if a home lone was base on the value of the lone as with a car then you could easly pay off a 80k house in five years as with a car.
but for 200 years now the banks have used this COMPOUND interest to get a return of OVER 100% on therfe money if this was a car long the interest rate would be 110% now who in there right mind would pay that but yet for 200 years we aloway banks to charge this rate! and say what a graet deal were getting.
planing lol what a joke this system will fail it must maby not today or even next year but when you use this system to creat your wealth the cost of living rate is many times higher then the pay rates can keep up with.
Of corse you all know this after all im 44 when i was 14 (30 years agaio)
a new midclass home was 55 to 6o k now its 145 to 190k
a loft of bread was 75 cents now its 2$ for the cheep stuff.
a pound of buger was 75 cents now its over 3$
i got payed 525 an hour then now i get payed 725 an hour .
ok more math 525 - bread 75 cents leaves me 450 now 725 - bread 2$ leaves me 525 the incress has left me in much worse shape then 30 years agaio at a much lower wage.
heck a gallon of gas 75 cents 5.25 got you 7 gallons
now today 725 gets you 2.3 gallons well now do the math people in 5 more years at this rate of brake down the gape will be so narrow that you my friend will be living in a 3rd world country
So. This guy. Signed a mortgage. Made a deal with the bank.
Now he wants to renege on that deal?
I've gone through foreclosure. It sucks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
However when you sign a contract you have to live with the consequences.
Now this being said. I do think that banks need to work harder to keep people in their homes. Lowering interest rates refinancing for longer terms. Whatever. Banks need to be responsible citizens of this country. And help their neighbors.
Now he wants to renege on that deal?
I've gone through foreclosure. It sucks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
However when you sign a contract you have to live with the consequences.
Now this being said. I do think that banks need to work harder to keep people in their homes. Lowering interest rates refinancing for longer terms. Whatever. Banks need to be responsible citizens of this country. And help their neighbors.
reply to post by xxcalbier
That's a really excellent point. Very few even consider or care what compound interest is or means for them....It's so easily written off as "confusing banker talk...let the pros do their job."
We've all been taken for a ride, and it's taken a looooong time for us to figure that out.
That's a really excellent point. Very few even consider or care what compound interest is or means for them....It's so easily written off as "confusing banker talk...let the pros do their job."
We've all been taken for a ride, and it's taken a looooong time for us to figure that out.
Dead on!
Finally common folks are standing up for their right to a decent living, and refuse to get forced to homelessness by TPTB! The foreclosure IS economical war, waged by a corporate elite who serve nothing else than their self-interest, adn the Federal bureaucrats who allowed it to happen (remembering how the foreclosure is a direct result of Bush's policy of providing affordable housing to millions of Americans through sub-prime mortgages programs), by cutting the grass below people's feets, and on a wide, massive scale, and the result is having thousands, hundreds of thousands of families and individuals in the streets while the people who profiteered from their demise are way above any accountability, living somewhere else on their private yatchs in the Mediterranean on abusing childrens in their huge villas in South America. Corporations are certainly not patriotic and even less concerned about the well-being and liberties of Americans. And whoever defends such an order of things simply doesn't have a clue on what it is to be a family with 3 kids sleeping in their car on a Wal Mart parking lot... and that, if they were able to keep their car.
It's surely not the "consumers" that have the upper-hand in regulating and changing interest rates on mortgages, their credit rate, and the value of money itself, but they still have power over social order, since they, at the bottom-line, are the ones who still make the system work to the advantage of the wealthy.
Freedom fighters are not dead.
[edit on 3/5/10 by Echtelion]
Finally common folks are standing up for their right to a decent living, and refuse to get forced to homelessness by TPTB! The foreclosure IS economical war, waged by a corporate elite who serve nothing else than their self-interest, adn the Federal bureaucrats who allowed it to happen (remembering how the foreclosure is a direct result of Bush's policy of providing affordable housing to millions of Americans through sub-prime mortgages programs), by cutting the grass below people's feets, and on a wide, massive scale, and the result is having thousands, hundreds of thousands of families and individuals in the streets while the people who profiteered from their demise are way above any accountability, living somewhere else on their private yatchs in the Mediterranean on abusing childrens in their huge villas in South America. Corporations are certainly not patriotic and even less concerned about the well-being and liberties of Americans. And whoever defends such an order of things simply doesn't have a clue on what it is to be a family with 3 kids sleeping in their car on a Wal Mart parking lot... and that, if they were able to keep their car.
It's surely not the "consumers" that have the upper-hand in regulating and changing interest rates on mortgages, their credit rate, and the value of money itself, but they still have power over social order, since they, at the bottom-line, are the ones who still make the system work to the advantage of the wealthy.
Freedom fighters are not dead.
[edit on 3/5/10 by Echtelion]
reply to post by hotbakedtater
Wow, you want all of those who can't adapt to die. I guess we should start digging mass graves for illegals, muslims, hillbillies, and gansta's. None of them have adapted.......so they should all die? Cool, we've established they should all die, now how do we do it........you gonna do it, or maybe hire someone indanger of losing their house? The banking industry is a farce.....what exactly did they lose? Nadaa, zip, zilch, nothing. If this man lost his job he had for how long, he should now be forced out. How many Americans have a work history of this long with one company? The idea of going back to scholl to adapt is mute.......where's the income to pay for the house while in schoool? Yes, maybe he could have planned better, however, people thinking he should die is just absurd. Epic fail, now go back to your closet sized space.l
Wow, you want all of those who can't adapt to die. I guess we should start digging mass graves for illegals, muslims, hillbillies, and gansta's. None of them have adapted.......so they should all die? Cool, we've established they should all die, now how do we do it........you gonna do it, or maybe hire someone indanger of losing their house? The banking industry is a farce.....what exactly did they lose? Nadaa, zip, zilch, nothing. If this man lost his job he had for how long, he should now be forced out. How many Americans have a work history of this long with one company? The idea of going back to scholl to adapt is mute.......where's the income to pay for the house while in schoool? Yes, maybe he could have planned better, however, people thinking he should die is just absurd. Epic fail, now go back to your closet sized space.l
reply to post by adifferentbreed
Don't you just hate self-centered delusional feelings of superiority? I have less so I am better is no different than I have so I am better. Either way...it's someone who thinks they are better than others.
Don't you just hate self-centered delusional feelings of superiority? I have less so I am better is no different than I have so I am better. Either way...it's someone who thinks they are better than others.
So.... to the people cheering this baffoon on ...
Why should this guy get to live in his house for free?
I agree the mortgage industry is FUBAR beyond belief.. and it's not fair that we should have to take out such massive loans to buy a house.. personally I don't think you should be allowed to finance more than 20% of your homes value at purchase.
But he took out his loan.
He defaulted for an extended period of time.
He looses his house.
If this guy gets to live in his house for free, why am I still paying my outrageously expensive Mortgage? I still pay mine, even when I'm working part time, odd jobs, or not at all .. because I'm responsible, and other people, be it a bank or not, should not be stuck with my bill because I want to be an ignorant lazy idiot.
No sympathy for this ass hat.
Why should this guy get to live in his house for free?
I agree the mortgage industry is FUBAR beyond belief.. and it's not fair that we should have to take out such massive loans to buy a house.. personally I don't think you should be allowed to finance more than 20% of your homes value at purchase.
But he took out his loan.
He defaulted for an extended period of time.
He looses his house.
If this guy gets to live in his house for free, why am I still paying my outrageously expensive Mortgage? I still pay mine, even when I'm working part time, odd jobs, or not at all .. because I'm responsible, and other people, be it a bank or not, should not be stuck with my bill because I want to be an ignorant lazy idiot.
No sympathy for this ass hat.
Well, when we start outsourcing StarBucks We'll know we're in real trouble. Then everybody will be out of work. Even those good folks like the
Burger King and Ronald McDonald!
Unless jobs and our manufacturing base comes back into the states, we're never going to spend or save our way back to prosperity! I'd personally like to hang the jackass who came up with the principle of 'compound interest'!
Zindo
Unless jobs and our manufacturing base comes back into the states, we're never going to spend or save our way back to prosperity! I'd personally like to hang the jackass who came up with the principle of 'compound interest'!
Zindo
Originally posted by Rockpuck
So.... to the people cheering this baffoon on ...
Why should this guy get to live in his house for free?
I agree the mortgage industry is FUBAR beyond belief.. and it's not fair that we should have to take out such massive loans to buy a house.. personally I don't think you should be allowed to finance more than 20% of your homes value at purchase.
But he took out his loan.
He defaulted for an extended period of time.
He looses his house.
If this guy gets to live in his house for free, why am I still paying my outrageously expensive Mortgage? I still pay mine, even when I'm working part time, odd jobs, or not at all .. because I'm responsible, and other people, be it a bank or not, should not be stuck with my bill because I want to be an ignorant lazy idiot.
No sympathy for this ass hat.
He's not asking to live in his house for free. The bank already bought it at the Sheriff's sale on March 18th. No one is asking to stay in their house. What Keith IS asking is that the Sheriff declare a moratorium on foreclosure related evictions indefinitely until this thing can start to get worked out.
This is nothing strange for a Sheriff to do. The Sheriff has that right.The Sheriff of Wayne County Michigan (Detroit) did just that last year.So it isn't like it hasn't happened before. Keith and the Toledo Foreclosure Defense League have been asking the Sheriff's of all counties surrounding Toledo for over a year now to institute moratoriums on foreclosure related evictions, and the Lucas County Sheriff (Toledo) has been too busy trying to keep himself out of jail on murder charges to be anything but a poophole.
Keith and his supporters are hoping that Sheriff Wasylyshyn will do the right thing and stop putting families out on the streets because the banks want our money (bailouts) and our houses too. It's not hard to see how that is just simply wrong.
How is it wrong, exactly? I don't get it. Enlighten me.
Our entire economy is based on legal contracts. He signed a contract. He broke the contract. No one forced him to buy this house.
If the house is already foreclosed, then the borrower has had many, many months to make other arrangements by this point in time. At least 6 months - maybe longer. Some mortgages haven't been paid in 3 years or more, and the borrower is still living in the house!
Why didn't the borrower vacate the house, rent a cheap apartment, and rent the house out to pay for the mortgage payment?
Why didn't the borrower offer the bank a short sale?
Why didn't the borrower refinance the balance owed, and lower his payment? Interest rates are at record lows.
Why did he renege on his contractual obligation? He lost his job? So did thousands of other auto, construction, and steel workers. So what? He can't find another job to replace his income? Other auto workers have figured out a way to survive in this difficult economy.
I don't buy it. I am sorry he is losing his house. Stuff happens. Get over it.
Our entire economy is based on legal contracts. He signed a contract. He broke the contract. No one forced him to buy this house.
If the house is already foreclosed, then the borrower has had many, many months to make other arrangements by this point in time. At least 6 months - maybe longer. Some mortgages haven't been paid in 3 years or more, and the borrower is still living in the house!
Why didn't the borrower vacate the house, rent a cheap apartment, and rent the house out to pay for the mortgage payment?
Why didn't the borrower offer the bank a short sale?
Why didn't the borrower refinance the balance owed, and lower his payment? Interest rates are at record lows.
Why did he renege on his contractual obligation? He lost his job? So did thousands of other auto, construction, and steel workers. So what? He can't find another job to replace his income? Other auto workers have figured out a way to survive in this difficult economy.
I don't buy it. I am sorry he is losing his house. Stuff happens. Get over it.
reply to post by 4by4dave
OHHHHH ... I get it! ..
He doesn't want to live in his house for free.. he just doesn't want to/cant pay his mortgage, but doesn't want to be kicked out.
Because that's so different..
Thanks for clarifying.
reply to post by CookieMonster09
Not only has he had several months (most foreclosures take over a year) ... he hasn't been paying a mortgage, so he SHOULD have a nice sum of cash saved up.
[edit on 5/3/2010 by Rockpuck]
OHHHHH ... I get it! ..
He doesn't want to live in his house for free.. he just doesn't want to/cant pay his mortgage, but doesn't want to be kicked out.
Because that's so different..
Thanks for clarifying.
reply to post by CookieMonster09
Not only has he had several months (most foreclosures take over a year) ... he hasn't been paying a mortgage, so he SHOULD have a nice sum of cash saved up.
[edit on 5/3/2010 by Rockpuck]
reply to post by Rockpuck
Yes, I told my sister to do the same thing. She had a bad credit rating when she purchased her house. With the downturn in the economy and the housing market, her mortgage ended up being underwater. I told her to just quit paying, save up the money, and let the bank take the house after a long awaited vacancy order.
She thinks that is a bad idea. She cannot come up with any reasoning except her credit rating would get worse. It is not that good at all!
Of course, if one house squats and the Sheriff will not execute the order to vacate, what is the bank going to do?
Yes, I told my sister to do the same thing. She had a bad credit rating when she purchased her house. With the downturn in the economy and the housing market, her mortgage ended up being underwater. I told her to just quit paying, save up the money, and let the bank take the house after a long awaited vacancy order.
She thinks that is a bad idea. She cannot come up with any reasoning except her credit rating would get worse. It is not that good at all!
Of course, if one house squats and the Sheriff will not execute the order to vacate, what is the bank going to do?
reply to post by endisnighe
Yes, if you have no way out, and theres no other option for you... save your money, squat as long as you can, and put the past behind you.
I don't advocate people demanding their house for free, or demanding an end to the foreclosure process, or demanding assistance, or demanding anything actually. We might as well just beg the state to build as concrete block tenements and be done with it.
Yes, if you have no way out, and theres no other option for you... save your money, squat as long as you can, and put the past behind you.
I don't advocate people demanding their house for free, or demanding an end to the foreclosure process, or demanding assistance, or demanding anything actually. We might as well just beg the state to build as concrete block tenements and be done with it.
reply to post by Rockpuck
You mean like these nice homes-
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7ce9b000e8d.jpg[/atsimg]
Everyone loves to live in public housing!
You mean like these nice homes-
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7ce9b000e8d.jpg[/atsimg]
Everyone loves to live in public housing!
reply to post by endisnighe
Yes, many public works like this, we shall make the Homeland proud! For the Homeland!
Yes, many public works like this, we shall make the Homeland proud! For the Homeland!
Originally posted by CookieMonster09
How is it wrong, exactly? I don't get it. Enlighten me.
Our entire economy is based on legal contracts. He signed a contract. He broke the contract. No one forced him to buy this house.
If the house is already foreclosed, then the borrower has had many, many months to make other arrangements by this point in time. At least 6 months - maybe longer. Some mortgages haven't been paid in 3 years or more, and the borrower is still living in the house!
Why didn't the borrower vacate the house, rent a cheap apartment, and rent the house out to pay for the mortgage payment?
Why didn't the borrower offer the bank a short sale?
Why didn't the borrower refinance the balance owed, and lower his payment? Interest rates are at record lows.
Why did he renege on his contractual obligation? He lost his job? So did thousands of other auto, construction, and steel workers. So what? He can't find another job to replace his income? Other auto workers have figured out a way to survive in this difficult economy.
I don't buy it. I am sorry he is losing his house. Stuff happens. Get over it.
All of these things you are ignorantly accusing him of not having tried, he tried. Short sale, renting out rooms, loan remods...the works. He's been going through this for a year. I talked with him at length today, not only him but people who have known him for years..his neighbors (you know like the real ones who live next door) and he really has tried everything. He doesn't even want to keep the house. He never did after the foreclosure went through. He's met withdozens of people in the Toledo area going through the same thing and watched the pain that they were going through and knew it because he was going through it too. He just wants this to stop happening to other people.
And it's not like he's the only one in there either. One of those girls is 20 years old and tried to help her grandmother navigate through this horsepuckey "help" that's available, and the nature of her foreclosure was recognized as a problem and stopped by the county who sold her tax lien to a broker in a bundle of liens who then immediately forelcosed on everything in the stack. She tried getting help every way she could too. Just like Keith. When she offered to cash out a 401K they wouldn't take it and they're still taking her house. Hundreds lost their homes in this area in situations just like this. I live here. Lambertville is just north of Toledo.
So don't think your petty ideas of "Well he signed a contract, it's his own dumb fault" will ever get very far with me.
Yeah...he signed a contract. And yeah, he trusted that the banker was telling him the truth when he signed it. He's 53!! That's his generation. The trustworthy banker and honest business. Have you ever met a UAW auto worker? These are not BMW SUV driving suburbanites, I hate to tell you. These are hard working people with ideas of integrity and honesty in business that simply does not exist at the corporate level and that has been ruthlessly exploited by the current corporate and banking cartels.
The banker was a banker and essentially conned him into signing onto something with rosy promises of the future and fed him dreams of future home equity. 9 GOOD years later, TSHTF as far as the housing market goes and that ARM just took right on over and the interest quickly overtook him once his income was slashed. This was dishonesty on the bankers part taking advantage of the trust that Keith had for him.
"Of course it's in the bankers best interests to get that loan paid back" How so, when they have essentially driven down property values through bogus loan trading, created this foreclosure crisis and then bought up the foreclosed homes in huge lots for pennies on the dollar. It's having your cake and eating it too and probably the most disgusting displays of callous economic barbarism in modern history
[edit on 3-5-2010 by 4by4dave]
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