Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

reply to post by riley


Again I did not misquote you. I used quote tags but not your quote. If you think it was a personal dig you are mistaken. Get over it. I will make my arguments as I see fit.


As for not helping the disabled or whatever since you know so much about me maybe you could tell me where I live and work? Oh that’s right you know squat about me and what I do for others. I never said you do or do not fight for the rights of the disabled where that came from is beyond me. Maybe you are too worked up to be posting since I have no clue where half of your rantings are coming from.


As for protesting, why would I protest disabled people? That would be stupid. Any money or help I have given would be pointless to talk about since I would have no way of proving anything like that to anyone here. Just like you cannot prove what you do or do not do for the disabled. This is the internet we are all rather anonymous here. Also just so you know (even though you seem to be sure you know a lot about me) I do not protest abortion clinics either, nor do I blow them up or shoot people before you start suggesting that.

I did not even start the debate on whether or not abortion was right or wrong. I simply posted facts in reply to someone who did not know what they were talking about. That person started to turn this into a pro-life vs. pro-death discussion. After that it seems everyone started to voice their opinion on whether or not abortion is right in their eyes which is fine because the thread is about an abortion that went terribly wrong.

I also want to point out that more often than not the disabled receive state aid from birth to death. I could point to several people I know in this situation but you are not here for me to show them to you. The families taking care of the children can receive a degree of state aid. I could also point to the number of families that chose to adopt children with disabilities because they feel that disabled children need love too.

Those options alone make it selfish for someone to decide whether or not a disabled baby should die instead of living.

Just so you know changing one diaper is no different than changing another aside from the amount that might be in one. I rather enjoy giving a walk to those in a wheelchair as well, it gives me exercise as well as giving them fresh air. But of course you seem to know a lot about me so tell me more about what sort of person I am. I cannot wait to hear it.


You forgot to answer the questions above though about why a man has no say in anything in the child’s life. If the woman wants the child but the man does not, the man pays child support (which really is fine because he helped make the child). But if the man wants the child and the woman does not she can have an abortion without his consent (which is total bull because the man could have provided a home for the child). Women have the best of both worlds in that case. No matter what they can get their way forgetting the fact it takes two to tango.



Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by riley

 

Again I did not misquote you. I used quote tags but not your quote. If you think it was a personal dig you are mistaken. Get over it. I will make my arguments as I see fit.

You "fixed" what I said.

As for protesting, why would I protest disabled people? That would be stupid.

Protest for.

Any money or help I have given would be pointless to talk about since I would have no way of proving anything like that to anyone here. Just like you cannot prove what you do or do not do for the disabled. This is the internet we are all rather anonymous here. Also just so you know (even though you seem to be sure you know a lot about me) I do not protest abortion clinics either, nor do I blow them up or shoot people before you start suggesting that.

I was not going to suggest that. The "what are you doing for the disabled" was directed at everyone who claims to care for this kid's life.

I also want to point out that more often than not the disabled receive state aid from birth to death. I could point to several people I know in this situation but you are not here for me to show them to you. The families taking care of the children can receive a degree of state aid. I could also point to the number of families that chose to adopt children with disabilities because they feel that disabled children need love too.

Ridiculous. The state help people get is no where near what parents need. In Australia they had to actually shut down most of the state institutions because of the rampent sexual abuse that was occuring in them. Parents would choose to put their kids into state care and they'd end up in the hands of sexual predators. Adoption? Some people have good hearts but not many would want imperfect children. What about those foster parents who actually locked several disabled children in cages so they could get money from the government to care for them? The disabled are treated like the dregs of society and society's attitude towards them is "beggers can't be chooses". To call women murderers when they know what futures those babies face is disgusting. The life prospects of those born with severe deformities and disabilities are not good. Raise the quality of life for them and they would get aborted less.

btw. As I said before I do not agree with last term abortions except in certain circumstances. Imo if this baby was able to survive for two days it's deformities may not have been that bad.

You forgot to answer the questions above though about why a man has no say in anything in the child’s life. If the woman wants the child but the man does not, the man pays child support (which really is fine because he helped make the child). But if the man wants the child and the woman does not she can have an abortion without his consent (which is total bull because the man could have provided a home for the child). Women have the best of both worlds in that case. No matter what they can get their way forgetting the fact it takes two to tango.

I did not forget. I didn't answer it because that IS NOT WHAT THE TOPIC IS ABOUT.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]

reply to post by riley


But see I asked the question because you made this comment.

Originally posted by riley


..I notice there's no mention the fathers getting vacectomies for aborted pregancies. Why is that? because pregnancy is all the woman's fault? :shk:

And actually it is parallel to the topic at hand. The topic is about an abortion that failed miserably. Parallel topics include abortion.

I am in America I do not know nor claim to know what takes place in state run boarding houses in Australia. Not only that but I was not talking about boarding homes to start with. I was talking about state aid in the form of funds. The money is not always large amounts but there are other forms of help available as well. It is simply about searching and finding it. Often enough you can find support groups, and those who gladly donate money to organizations. A quick Google search can reveal thousands that help both children and adults.

I agree the child most likely was not that bad since it survived for nearly two days after the event. I also have seen many times where the doctors say one thing and the baby is just fine, others where they operate on the baby while it is still in the womb. This whole thing though stems back to people wanting perfect kids and disposing of any they see as unfit. This is what the whole premise of designer children is about.

Do not get me wrong just because I state my opinion does not mean I am trying to change anyone’s mind. Their actions really do not concern me. But I will use my rights to voice my opinion whenever I chose to do so. Whether anyone listens or not is up to them. I think abortion is wrong but if you chose to do it more power to you, I hope you live easily with yourself as life goes on. I will though support the right (even though I think it is wrong still in some ways) to abort rape or incest children. Other than that it is natural life taking place in my opinion. I would not call a raped woman a murderer for aborting a child conceived in rape. I will though think of her as a selfish worthless person for aborting because she did not want kids (see the link of the woman getting 15 in 17 years).

Raist

reply to post by AccessDenied


Thankfully, nobody asked your opinion before figuring out the laws. Wanna know something funny? Here in America, not only was abortion common up until the late 19th century, but so was infanticide. Both are still quite regular practices in many areas of the world, simply as a method of population control.

Of course, back then people didn't have birth control methods (not that pro-lifers have ever supported the use of prophylactics though)

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Infantcide was common practice? I don't know about that. Explain more or link someting.

I would like that claim explained/proven a little more.

Not that I wish to go into it but what is the history of abortions. I don't want to look it up myself. I am sure it is not a pretty story.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Of course, back then people didn't have birth control methods (not that pro-lifers have ever supported the use of prophylactics though)

I would like proof of this as well. Any pro-lifer I know supports the use of safe sex, if one is going to have sex. Of course without a doubt the safest is not to have it but that is another story.


To me this seems as like nothing more than a huge generalization that is incorrect.




Raist

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
yes, it was unprofessional, but it was very human. would you lie to save a life? the mother was ignoring the child's right to life.

He was ignoring his patients rights. If he does not like the responsibilities that come with being a doctor he should not be one. He lied about a problem with the pregnancy? Would he also lie about something that could risk the health or life of the mother because he thinks the risk is worth it? That kind of lie could costs lives.. not only that but would he step up and pay for a severely disabled child's care for the duration of it's lifetime? The medical costs, the special education, the care homes? Would he make sure that family doesn't go bunkrupt trying to look after it and their other children as well? Didn't think so.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]

he didn't violate her rights in any way. people go to other doctors for second opinions every day. there was no problem with her pregnancy, unless you are saying that the baby is a problem and should be killed.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
it could actually end up being a good idea(though an infinitly better one is to outlaw abortion). people want to live without responsibility, but it is costing lives. what would you call a man who kills babies for pleasure? a sick psycho serial killer. why isn't the same said of a woman? (and i'm saying she does it "for pleasure" because sex is about pleasure, and if she is sleeping around like that, she obviously thinks the pleasure she gets is way better than the child she killed)

So a sixteen year old should be "fixed" if she has an abortion? A rape victim should have to be surgically raped for choosing to terminate a rape pregnancy? Yep thats a moral "option". :shk:

the only people that i've ever heard use the term "misogynist" are feminists. i think the sexes to be equal, i don't hate anyone based on what sex they are; i judge people by their actions.

Saying women should be forced to undergo sterilisation is a form of violence and hate. I do not have to be a feminist to know that is morally repugnent.

btw. I already said I was not willing to discuss the "women who have abortion should be sterilised" bs. If you REALLY want to discuss that idea start a thread on it.

a sixteen year old isn't ready for sex. if a law was implimented that required women to get their tubes tied after having an abortion, it would cut down on deaths. not being able to reproduce is a small punishment compared to what killing a baby is worth. but honestly? i support outlawing abortion, first and foremost, this includes things like plan b and birth control. will that ever happen? i doubt it, people are more concerned with what is easy than what is right.

is punishing a murderer a form of violence and hate?

Look guys and Gals this is the deal.....

Abortions happen, they always have and they always will.

People on both sides of this topic need to step away from their anger and look at this from a constructive point of view. this might sound strange coming from me because I usually run ramped on ATS with the foulest mouth the mods have ever seen.

But this is not about ideals or governments or conspiracies, this is about our future because that what Fetuses or babies or children or life or what ever you want to call them are. They are the future.....

People who are pro choice only care about the choice and people who are pro life only care about the lack of choice.

Everyone is raising money for their own agenda, forcing a law that give them the abortion choice or takes it away. That's a stupid approach because abortions will always happen.

The laws are so dumb that a forced adoption law on every individual would be more effective lol.

I think a good solution would be to present women who are thinking about aborting with information about putting the baby up for adoption. Putting a baby up for adoption should be mad an emphasises not abortion.

These women need support, they need help being made to understand that a baby does not need to be aborted, there are places that will take them off their hands. But as for the choice of abortion, no law can take that from a determined woman.