Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

Originally posted by anon72
I am not sure what to say on this one. I mean, come on. How can this happen anywhere today? The whole abortion thing is just so messed up-no matter what side you are on of the issue.

I have to give it to the Italians for thinking-Okay, you want to do abortions as a doctor-well then you better do them correctly or face homicide charges.

The arguement of when life begins comes into play. For me, it begins with a heart beat.

I think the issue is what lack of procedures led to such a horrific turn of events. I generally do not agree with late term abortion except for severe deformities and I'm pretty sure thats the main reason they are performed. I doubt many women would change their minds that late in the pregnancy for trivial reasons.


(See everyone? This is what being on-topic means.)

[edit on 1-5-2010 by riley]

reply to post by riley


Hello Riley. Well, I would hope sure hope so but every time the whole Late Term Abortion topic comes up, they make it sound like this is a high volume business-could be etc.

I believe I heard that they have discovered a synthetic form of Stem Cell so I would hope the L.T.A's would not be as frequent, if at all.

Having a great weekend , you and all, I hope.

The best source of stems cells come from the umbilical cord blood. Had that option been available to me I would have gladly donated the cord blood from all 3 of my children. sadly its not.

reply to post by calstorm


how sad-drug addicts messed up children. Did you learn this from hospital staff or is these your personal assetment?

I think if should be public info- most of it anyway. If taxpayer money is use-no holes barred!



[edit on 5/1/2010 by anon72]

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
my dad is a doctor. he is also a christian. one day he was asked to perform an abortion for a young couple, and being against abortions, he lied and told them "its too late for me to abort the baby". so she had the child, and absolutely fell in love with it, and came back to the office with the little one to thank my dad for not going through with it.

It worked out okay for that woman but it's not his place to be making major life choices for patients. You sound proud of him yet he took it upon himself to change his prosition from doctor to priest/moral counsel.. not only that if he was christian yet ignored her right to free will. I can appreciate that she is glad she didn't have an abortion but your father was in the position of trust as a medical practitioner and it was NOT his decision to make. If he felt morally compromised he sould have just referred her to another doctor or made his moral views clear before accepting her as a patient. Ultimately it was very unprofessional.

Ontopic. My personal opinion is that the doctor should be charged with malpractice and perhaps manslaughter.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by riley]

yes, it was unprofessional, but it was very human. would you lie to save a life? the mother was ignoring the child's right to life.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by riley

 

With all that said, my body my choice is a horrible lie. Your body your choice to have sex.

Wow another "moral" person who think the concept of free will shouldn't apply to a pregnant women.

Regardless people have already used that non argument already trying to find a moral loophole so they can justify deeming a pregnant woman's wishes as NA and treating her body as merely a uterus on life support. The whole idea of surgically raping a woman so she can't get pregnant again is very, very sick (it's why I bothered with this thread I tried ignoring it) and it is NO BETTER than the taliban cutting off the hands of hungry thieves or killing women for having babies out of wedlock.

..I notice there's no mention the fathers getting vacectomies for aborted pregancies. Why is that? because pregnancy is all the woman's fault? :shk:

If people are going to continue responding to me try my last post it is actually ON TOPIC. I'm getting sick of pro-lifers using it as a segway to post misoginist propoganda and I have NO interest reading justifications on surgical rape. IT IS SICK and I'm not going to change my mind on that no matter how many people say "but she chose to have sex..".

[edit on 1-5-2010 by riley]

it could actually end up being a good idea(though an infinitly better one is to outlaw abortion). people want to live without responsibility, but it is costing lives. what would you call a man who kills babies for pleasure? a sick psycho serial killer. why isn't the same said of a woman? (and i'm saying she does it "for pleasure" because sex is about pleasure, and if she is sleeping around like that, she obviously thinks the pleasure she gets is way better than the child she killed)

the fathers have no say over whether the child is killed or kept. feminists argue that it takes two for a pregancy(and it does), but then deny men a say in what happens to the child.

the only people that i've ever heard use the term "misogynist" are feminists. i think the sexes to be equal, i don't hate anyone based on what sex they are; i judge people by their actions.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by riley

 

He's talking about strapping a woman down and violating her reproductive organs with surgical instruments. Sounds like rape to me.

Kind of like punching a hole into a skull and sucking out the brains with a vaccum sounds like murder to me...but some people seem to not see it that way.


I 100% support the idea that women who choose to get an abortion should also get a procedure done so they can no longer have children. So things like this don't happen.

Thanks goes to DaMod for showing me this article of this disgusting woman.

15 Abortions in 17 Years

Can I follow you around and judge your decisions??.. I'm sure it wouldn't take too long before some opinionated stranger found you morally reprehensible and utterly disgusting...

I'm guessing she'd need 40 more years to equal the number of retro-actively aborted iraqis performed on one tour by the brain surgeons flying that apache gunship... (wiki video)... did you see some of those former babies suffering out-side the womb after that botched US govt funded 30mm retro-active abortion?? only to be summarily inhumanely erased.. while crawling.

Unlike most abortions, your tax dollars helped pay for that mass retro-active street abortion of iraqi babies that grew up.. and if you voted GOP or DNC, helped insure 100s of thousands more former iraqi babies will be retro-actively aborted with the care and concern of a firing squad.

Compared to the horrific suffering former iraqi babies endure from apache gunship retro-abortions.. the fetus gets a pretty good deal.

reply to post by riley

Wow another "moral" person who think the concept of free will shouldn't apply to a pregnant women.

No...murder isn't part of "free will"...it is murder. You have free will to choose to have sex...if you get pregnant...don't be a selfish vile creature and choose to kill a baby because it may not work with your life plan.

The whole idea of surgically raping a woman so she can't get pregnant again is very, very sick (it's why I bothered with this thread I tried ignoring it) and it is NO BETTER than the taliban cutting off the hands of hungry thieves or killing women for having babies out of wedlock.

It's actually WAY BETTER than women killing babies because they are irresponsible whores...yep...that is exactly how I think of them.

I notice there's no mention the fathers getting vacectomies for aborted pregancies. Why is that? because pregnancy is all the woman's fault?

Notice there is no mention of the fathers CHOICE when it comes to abortion? Why is that...is the pregnancy all the woman's fault?

I'm getting sick of pro-lifers using it as a segway to post misoginist propoganda and I have NO interest reading justifications on surgical rape.

I'm gettng sick of pro-choicers pretending that abortion isn't murdering babies.

You don't seem to have any interest in discussing anything logical at all...so why do you waste our time?

IT IS SICK and I'm not going to change my mind on that no matter how many people say "but she chose to have sex..".

But she did choose to have sex...and if the stupid whore can't take responsibility after that...then I don't think she has any right to ever have custody of a kid. She already killed one kid...why wouldn't she kill another? We don't let axe murderers have custody of children...I see no difference between the two. Actually...that is unfair to axe murderers...they probably didn't kill an innocent helpless child...and if they did...it probably wouldn't be as brutal as sucking their brains out with a vaccum or whatever other disgusting procedure they do.

Regardless people have already used that non argument already trying to find a moral loophole so they can justify deeming a pregnant woman's wishes as NA and treating her body as merely a uterus on life support.

Yeah...those darn moral "loopholes"...like us saying rape is wrong...pffttt...stupid morals.

Anyway...I like this comment "merely a uterus on life support"....like it or not THAT IS ALL WOMEN ARE. And all a man is, is a sperm factory and deliver system. THAT IS IT...that is your purpose in this stupid f'ing thing we call LIFE.

There is no greater meaning, your actions in life mean nothing, your accomplishments mean nothing, your feelings, your career, your material possesions mean nothing. When you die...they all die with you...they mean absolutly nothing. People need to wake up and realize that THEY ARE NOT SPECIAL...your life means nothing by itself...the only thing special in life is LOVE. Abortion has NO love in it at all...it is the opposite of love...I don't even think a pro-choice zombie could try to argue that an abortion is an act of love. That is why I truly believe anyone who has had an abortion must be dead in their heart...there can not be any love capable by that person.

You are a reproduction machine...everything is to support you to get to reproduce...and that is it...there is nothing else. If you fail to reproduce...you are a failure in nature. When you die...your gentic code dies with you...nothing continues...that is it.

So the argument of pregnancy will ruin your body, or it will inconvenience your life, or you are financially not secure enough....all BS. AGE will ruin your body, death is going to inconvenience your life, and unless you are a millionaire...you will never be financially secure.

Women are built to reproduce...and if they have one bit of copassion and decency in your body...they will be excited about that day...and they will be great mothers. If they are a selfish and evil creature (because I can't even call them women...because it is disrespectful to REAL women)...then they will figure an abortion is easier than taking the responsibility for what they are put here on earth to do.

I might have a shred of respect for women who have abortions (a tiny tiny amount of respect to their honest) if they just came out and said that they were just selfish, evil, whores that can't take responsibility for their own actions.

So like it or not...that is all women are...they ARE a walking uterus. And their purpose is to reproduce. If you don't like that...go argue with mother nature...because I didn't create the rules...I just understand them.

I hope all you pro-choice people sleep well tonight...just remember to think of that helpless child laying on a counter fighting to stay alive after the attempted abortion.






NOTE: Yes I know I'm ranting...this topic send me over the edge...it's like a bad nightmare because I can't actually believe it is part of our society.

O.. babies disabled? kill it... I see NO reason that anyone with a disability should live here on earth!! They absolutely offer us nothing...they're useless.... KILLIT!!!

O..babies got brown eyes and a gene that is a potential heart attack waiting to happen when baby reaches the age of 68... O..no no no... we can't have that.. KILLIT!!!

O..babies got a gene that tells us that baby will spread her legs and get pregnant and then decide she doesn't want her baby..OMG.. KILLIT!!


I really am disgusted with Women and Men that decide to kill an unborn life for any reason... however: I stand by what God gave us all ....which is a choice...You will live with the choices you make in life!

to the moron that said Murder is not free will... lol YES IT IS... it may be against the law.. but whatever we choose to do .. we have the FREE WILL TO DO IT..but along with free will is consequences... geezz do a little research and educate yourself before you take up a full page with your boring rant!!! rme



[edit on 2-5-2010 by tracehd1]

reply to post by anon72


Wow how awful, and freaking MESSED UP. Sickening. Truly.

But still thanks for posting so we don't live blind to what goes on.

reply to post by anon72


I am pro choice, and I personally hope some people go to jail here.


I am not expert enough to claim I can pinpoint the very moment "life begins." But I do agree with the laws in the US and also apparently in Italy, that say if the baby can survive outside the mother it is a person. And having survived the abortion, (which should probably not have taken place legally that far into the pregnancy) it was a human being with all the rights any other human should have and to abandon it to die was no less a crime than abandoning any other infant.

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by riley

 

Hello Riley. Well, I would hope sure hope so but every time the whole Late Term Abortion topic comes up, they make it sound like this is a high volume business-could be etc.

I believe I heard that they have discovered a synthetic form of Stem Cell so I would hope the L.T.A's would not be as frequent, if at all.

thankyou for trying to keep it civil and ontopic.

I do not think it happens alot as there are many deformities that can be fixed in-utero. I'm not sure about stem cell therapy.. calstorm mentioned umbilical cords so thats one sourse. I'm pretty sure that it was being harvested from younger fetuses between a certain time of gestation but now science is researching adult stem cells more as then you can treat someone using their own genetic template.

hope that makes sense.

Having a great weekend , you and all, I hope.

enjoy the rest of it.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
You don't seem to have any interest in discussing anything logical at all...so why do you waste our time?

If you read the OP you would see that my posts are very logical. I had asked you to try keep it ontopic and now I am asking you to again and to at least try keep it civil. I am not interested in reading about how you think women are "stupid whores". That is not the topic and neither is pregnant women making decisions you do not agree with. Not once have I said I agree with late term abortions either so stop accusing me of such.

Now go re-read the OP and look up the word "civil".

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]

Great job Riley. Thank you.

I finally got a chance to read eveyones post and I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at the responses. I knew I couldn't be the only one who thought it was a messed up story.

I truly apprecitate what I have read here on this thread and I can honestly say I am proud to be apart of this outfit. Althought the topic is a rough one it can be dealt with by us ATSers.

Have a great Sunday everyone. And, give your kids an extra hug today and be thankful you chose LIFE.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
yes, it was unprofessional, but it was very human. would you lie to save a life? the mother was ignoring the child's right to life.

He was ignoring his patients rights. If he does not like the responsibilities that come with being a doctor he should not be one. He lied about a problem with the pregnancy? Would he also lie about something that could risk the health or life of the mother because he thinks the risk is worth it? That kind of lie could costs lives.. not only that but would he step up and pay for a severely disabled child's care for the duration of it's lifetime? The medical costs, the special education, the care homes? Would he make sure that family doesn't go bunkrupt trying to look after it and their other children as well? Didn't think so.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
it could actually end up being a good idea(though an infinitly better one is to outlaw abortion). people want to live without responsibility, but it is costing lives. what would you call a man who kills babies for pleasure? a sick psycho serial killer. why isn't the same said of a woman? (and i'm saying she does it "for pleasure" because sex is about pleasure, and if she is sleeping around like that, she obviously thinks the pleasure she gets is way better than the child she killed)

So a sixteen year old should be "fixed" if she has an abortion? A rape victim should have to be surgically raped for choosing to terminate a rape pregnancy? Yep thats a moral "option". :shk:

the only people that i've ever heard use the term "misogynist" are feminists. i think the sexes to be equal, i don't hate anyone based on what sex they are; i judge people by their actions.

Saying women should be forced to undergo sterilisation is a form of violence and hate. I do not have to be a feminist to know that is morally repugnent.

btw. I already said I was not willing to discuss the "women who have abortion should be sterilised" bs. If you REALLY want to discuss that idea start a thread on it.

reply to post by riley


Let me fix that for you.

If she does not like the responsibilities that come with being a mother she should not have sex.

But let’s look at this another way. Since we are talking about disabled children now.


Even if the child was to be born with a disability does that make having an abortion even better?

Has no one with a disability never done something for the world to help? Sounds like some would have disabled people put to death.



Aside from that though everyone involved (aside from the man who found the child) should be charged with murder or at the very least manslaughter. Everyone involved acted callously toward a child that was born alive.


Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by riley

 

Let me fix that for you.

If she does not like the responsibilities that come with being a mother she should not have sex.Do not "fix" things I have said. You can make the same arguments without actually misquoting me.

DO NOT CHANGE MY QUOTES.

Even if the child was to be born with a disability does that make having an abortion even better?

Are you a full time carer for an adult severely disabled person? Do you have ANY idea what it is like for families who have to care for them? didn't think so. Do you offer support to them? I doubt it.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]

reply to post by riley


Firstly it was not linked as your quote, simply a quote (that I felt more appropriate) so calm down. If it were any longer your quote I would have had you name linked to it.


Secondly I work with a people who have children who have varying disabilities. I know what they go through and I know they don’t care how bad it gets because they love their child no matter what and would die for them, not cause the child to die because they might cause discomfort to the parent.

What gives us the right though to decide if a disabled person should live or die? Should we then unplug any on life support (no matter how short term it might be) because of the costs, the burden or whatever.


If any of those involved in this case had a heart or even a slight amount of care for anything other than themselves this whole ordeal would not have taken place. Those involved are all worthless sacks of flesh. They have all conspired in the murder of a living child. They each had their part in the murder and each of them should face charges.


Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by riley

 

Firstly it was not linked as your quote, simply a quote (that I felt more appropriate) so calm down. If it were any longer your quote I would have had you name linked to it.

You used quote tags purely to antagonize. You could make the same arguments without making personal digs.

I'm pretty sure misquoting someone like that is against the rules as well.. but really it's just rude and denogrates the discussion. I have said had SEVERAL TIMES that I would like to discuss things civilly yet you guys seem to WANT to have a flame war. I used to be alot more acidic with my postings but tried to take the edge of them trying to be more tolerent of opposing views.. perhaps I was wasting my time.

Secondly I work with a people who have children who have varying disabilities. I know what they go through and I know they don’t care how bad it gets because they love their child no matter what and would die for them, not cause the child to die because they might cause discomfort to the parent.

I also know what families go through as well but unless people want to step up and actually help pay for the care of the severly disabled they will get aborted simply because PARENTS CANNOT AFFORD THEM. They often have other children to consider and love alone is not enough to survive on. Should they have to be raised in poverty because a family can't afford to support a disabled child? Have you opened YOUR home to those children of your workmates to give the some respite for a wekend? Would you do so for the severely disabled? Change their colostomy bag or an adult diper? Instert a cathada? Stop them swallowing their tongue during a fit? Help them in a wheel chair? Take them for a day out? There are many more things carers need to deal with but I shoudn't have to tell people how hard it is.

I'm wondering.. which one would you guys choose to protest at.. an abortion clinic or a picket line fighting for the rights of the disabled? I suspect some of you would feel much more comfortable calling random women murderers.

It is the WORST form of hypocrisy. You want to point fingers yet have NO intention of actually helping those "saved" lives afterwards even know doing so would make "choosing life" easier for people. You get to walk away and do not have to watch entire families get destroyed.

btw. I do fight for the rights and freedoms of the disabled. If they had more rights, support and acceptence from society they wouldn't be aborted so often.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by riley]