North Korea: The Drumbeats of War Why this time you should pay attention.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Could be, and I'm sure it was "oh crap" I was just thinking that the Chinese were in the right area at the right time, and I am now looking into what could possibly be gained by their alleged intervention. Also, I was thinking, this could be the reason why the North so vehemently denies the incident, perhaps the North is telling the truth, though highly unlikely, if it was a third party involved, then they would be correct. Although, if there were any sign's it may have been Chinese involvement, I'm sure the US would be on it like crazy, by now. After all, we can't have the Chinese just dropping ship's when they want, regardless of the Nation's involved.

Maybe this time the North Koreans will think of mining Inchon... last time they didn't and they had their ass kicked because of it... they did not listen to Mao... Because great leader Kim Il Sung was a mediocre military planner... when Mao was a genius because of all his experience in the long march...but of course Kim Il Sung was so full of himself he thought he knew it all.

And Japan going in the fight? Last time I checked, Koreans and Chinese still hated the Japaneses for the brutal occupation of China and Korea... Japan going in the fight might turn the SK against the US and make them join NK...

The North Korean people is brainwashed enough to go to war...

Anyway there's several difference between now and back then...

- Kim-Il Sung wanted war for 3 years...and he believed his own BS, believed that as soon as he would go south, the SK people would rise up and join him in the communist revolution (Kim may believe this too)
- The american puppet in South Korea wanted war, that's why the americans did not give him powerful weapons because he would have invaded the north (this time the SK president does not want war)
- The SK army was poorly trained, poorly equiped, and poorly motivated (this time they are trained and equiped, but not enough motivated) (or maybe they are crazy enough to think that the nukes will counterbalance everything ``the evil americans have``)
- The North Korean army is all the contrary of the last time...poorly equipped, poorly trained but still motivated.
- Last time Kim Il Sung and the soviets went to war because they believed the US wouldn't enter the war...now they are side by side with SK by a military treaty...
- Last time the chinese were ready to give them troops and military help...this time I don't think so..

reply to post by freetree64


At the moment I can't imagine any benefit to the Chinese for sinking the ship. If it was them then they chose their target wisely. Sinking of a US ship would have been an even bigger disaster. No matter whether it was North Korea or the Chinese, if war breaks out you know they'll call the sinking a "False Flag" operation.

IMO the only way the Chinese could be involved is if it was planned by TPTB and a cooperative move by both the Chinese and US to do away with little Kim and his band of merrymen.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And Japan going in the fight? Last time I checked, Koreans and Chinese still hated the Japaneses for the brutal occupation of China and Korea... Japan going in the fight might turn the SK against the US and make them join NK...

The North Korean people is brainwashed enough to go to war...

Actually things have changed. South Korea, Japan and China economically and to a lesser extent politically are tide closely together.

Remember GREED and POWER?

Those a very strong motivators to cooperate IMHO

From yesterday's "New York Times".....


www.nytimes.com...

I hope in my life time those millions of North Koreans will be able to see the South... All there flat screen TV's, cell phones, new age computers.. A Ferrari!!

Sure, they are material things compared to "freedom", but damn wouldn't that be cool for them

reply to post by Wolftotem


I agree w/ some of the points that you bring up. Also thanks for posting up that article.

I believe that you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that
the reaction time for any S.Korean or U.S. ally to respond would NOT be
for days, especially if there's nukes involved...

Alot of people forget that it will take time to retrain our troops and
then deploy them to the korean peninsula. By that time Noko would have
taken over Seoul. Noko has buried themselves in deeper underground & in mountains, than an alabama tick.

The North Koreans were like ghosts. They passed over the countryside and left no mark on it in many ways. But when you use rock crusher techniques of an American army you hurt your friends. And that was truein Vietnam as well as in Korea.

-Maj.Gen.Edwin Simmons USMC (Ret.) former director of History and Museums, HQMC
PBS Special Korea - the Unknown War

As far as Noko NOT having friends, that is not true. I can name 2. Iran & China(thats right, I said it.) I can't see China stepping in and saying bad boy, especially after Taiwan/Dhali Llama.

April 22, 2010. A 2010-2012 plan for cultural and scientific exchanges between the governments of the DPRK (North Korea) and Iran is signed in Pyongyang.

Source

And as for China, Noko is China's pitbull on a leash to even out the
international playing field. Why is it that Noko can get away w/ all
of these acts of war but if Iran did such, there would be WAR... Why
is that?

I'm not even getting into Noko's partnerships w/ other countries, who
at the right moment can cause problems in other areas of the world that
would cause the U.S. and our allies to divide up/split from the ME region.
I hope people can see what type of game we're all in? Dealing w/ Noko will
not be as easy as people are saying it will be...

Lets say worst case scenario: Noko attacks Soko. The attack would be
swift,quick and bloody, especially w/ nuke tipped missiles. Because
Noko knows without a doubt that it can't deal w/ a long drawn out war.

Touching base back w/ China and their bubble economy. What makes people think that China wouldn't try and pull the plug on us technologically wise during this mess?

There has been rumors floating around that there's that type of "false
flag" around the corner(It is the 21st century afterall). Just imagine, Noko takes over Seoul, we can't react fast enough to prevent it, China pulls the plug on us over here, causing panic/confusion, wall street would take a dive, U.S & our ally countries would take a hit from that as well(putting China in better position).

U.S. & allies would have to split up in the ME region and re-train
troops for korea.

Add Iran/syria & company start acting up...

Check mate against U.S. & Allies. The hardest part would be to pull the plug on us from China.

Oh, can't forget Hugo & our domestic issues down south of the border.

But thats just my opinion. I've seen worst things posted, lol.

I guess I was wrong.... according to this article by AP.....

www.google.com...

reply to post by freetree64


From your source.
I found this interesting.

“Despite their public rhetoric about the closeness of their ties, officials in both China and North Korea each tell even American officials how much they dislike the other,” said Mr. Straub, the North Korea specialist at Stanford. “North Korean officials have on numerous occasions suggested to American officials that it would be in the interests of our two countries to have a strategic relationship — to counter China.”

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes, that part is very interesting, good looking out Slayer....

Alot of people forget that it will take time to retrain our troops and
then deploy them to the korean peninsula.

It DID NOT matter in the last war. People who were just enlisted were sent DIRECTLY to combat positions WITHOUT ANY TRAINING AT ALL. Their guns were not even zero's in...

It's like you're taking a vacation trip to Korea except when you get there, they give you a gun and say : good luck fighting those North Koreans boy!

As far as Noko NOT having friends, that is not true. I can name 2. Iran & China(thats right, I said it.) I can't see China stepping in and saying bad boy, especially after Taiwan/Dhali Llama.

China entered the last war, even without russian air support because Mao wanted to show that the new China wasn't the old and powerless China, nothing else...that and US military bases on their border.

China have contingency plans to go overthrow Pyongyang if they go crazy or the regime falls. It's been reported in chinese news around 2006.

IMO if China is to help North Korea and/or take Taiwan, it won't be before the US economy fully collapses.

But yeah China could pull the plug on the US, making the US bankrupt overnight, and people are so sick and tired of war, they would say MEH if SK was taken over...Now if our leaders would be real nationalists, which they are not, they would take this as an act of war...

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by DaRAGE
read the article.


But if the north attacks the south heres how it will play out. Exactly like Iraq war in the 90's. The rest of the world will cry out in rage at north korea.

The UN will help, America will help, Britain will help, Australia will help, Switzerland will remain neutral., Germany, France, wil help, some other European nations will help. Hell Even China will help coming from the north of north korea. I bet even Japan will help

[edit on 29-4-2010 by DaRAGE]

There is one difference though, North Korea actually has nukes.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
But yeah China could pull the plug on the US, making the US bankrupt overnight, and people are so sick and tired of war, they would say MEH if SK was taken over...Now if our leaders would be real nationalists, which they are not, they would take this as an act of war...

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

Yeah....no they couldn't; the debt it a huge problem, but the #1 holder of U.S. debt by far is.....the U.S. public themselves. China not buying out debt would just drive up interest rates and thus savings rates in the U.S. and banks would be buying U.S. treasuries instead of lending because of the higher yield. The worst that would happen is a recession/depression...the U.S. would not collapse. Our debt is a huge problem because of its economic implications, not really because we would "collapse."

[edit on 29-4-2010 by yellowcard]

Another great!!! article on China's objective's in relation to North Korea, and the world....




shadow.foreignpolicy.com...

Article on funeral for South Korean Sailors..... another good one




english.donga.com...

There is one difference though, North Korea actually has nukes.

North Korea has nukes, but can they use them? I mean if SK and the US are doing their job, they know where their nukes are...and if they are about to be deployed, they gonna be bombed into existence.

Yeah....no they couldn't; the debt it a huge problem, but the #1 holder of U.S. debt by far is.....the U.S. public themselves.

So what? If the stock you're holding is dropping by 30% Wouldn't you sell? If China starts dumping the US dollar (which they are) but at a faster rate, other people will dump the US dollar.

China not buying out debt would just drive up interest rates and thus savings rates in the U.S.

China not buying your debt would mean you need to print more. The FED can't raise interest rates, it would put millions of people on the street overnight and they would have to raise taxes to pay the interest on the debt.

and banks would be buying U.S. treasuries instead of lending because of the higher yield.

Yeah and Greece yield on 10 years treasuries is 30%... why are people ain't buying those eh?

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

I see no reason that China would want to be involved with North Koreas actions, it serves them no purpose.

China has enough issues of their own, without having to worry about the troubles of the DMZ.

But if NK does go out with a bang, I bet we have subs all over that area to strike quickly is need be....not that I wish or want that to happen.

Originally posted by yellowcard
There is one difference though, North Korea actually has nukes.
[edit on 29-4-2010 by yellowcard]

So does Britain, The US, France, China. It will start a precedent. "Nuclear weapons are bad. North Korea a rogue state used nuclear weapons in its war with the south, And Iran wants Nuclear Weapons. We cannot allow Iran with Nuclear weapons..."

Check out this article by Nicholas Eberstadt from the "WSJ" on North Korea... Excellent Article!!!








online.wsj.com...

Originally posted by freetree64

Check out this article by Nicholas Eberstadt from the "WSJ" on North Korea... Excellent Article!!!

online.wsj.com...

BY NICHOLAS EBERSTADT

As the U.S. and its allies frame plans for dealing with North Korea in the aftermath of the recent sinking of a South Korean warship, political leaders must recognize that security will depend not just upon deterring Kim Jong Il today. Northeast Asia's future security—and America's—will be profoundly affected by the government presiding over the northern half of Korea in the long run. For this reason, Korean unification—under a democratic, market-oriented Republic of Korea that remains allied with the U.S.—must be the ultimate objective. Today that looks like a daunting and risky prospect. But to paraphrase Churchill: Unification would be ...

Great find! Wow!

If anyone has a subscription to this site, please post the entire article - I would love to read it all.

Thanks!

reply to post by Wolftotem


Thanks, and I'll see what I can do on getting more on that....