BREAKING: Proof of survivors in Smolensk!

reply to post by djehuti333


Awesomely edited, thanks for posting! Wish i could edit it into the OP...

@ Ptenjakin I´d think twice before coming forward, if i was the cameraman...

Originally posted by AquaTim84
reply to post by Essan

 

It emerged a couple of minutes after the crash, as you can see there are still some fires burning. They have not been put out yet.

It was filmed minutes after the crash. How many hours before it was posted on the internet? 2 hours? 5 hours? Several days?

And why only on the internet when it would have been worth $100,000s to western media, especially if passed to them straight away (ie the same day). Contacting western media woud aso have meant the filmer was 'safe'. He would have have been internationally famous.

Sorry, but the story does not ring true.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by AquaTim84
reply to post by Essan

 

It emerged a couple of minutes after the crash, as you can see there are still some fires burning. They have not been put out yet.

It was filmed minutes after the crash. How many hours before it was posted on the internet? 2 hours? 5 hours? Several days?

And why only on the internet when it would have been worth $100,000s to western media, especially if passed to them straight away (ie the same day). Contacting western media woud aso have meant the filmer was 'safe'. He would have have been internationally famous.

Sorry, but the story does not ring true.

Not everyone out there is doing it for the money.

Selling it to any corporation gives them the jurisdiction on whether or not to put it out there. What if they don't show the video?

And how would it have made him any safer...according to unofficial reports people just KILLED him anyway.

Anyway, by your logic, if I don't do something for the money it must not be true. Maybe the guy does love money though...but just never thought of selling it to the media.

Either way, what story does not ring true to you? The story that he was killed? The story of the crash? The video?

I don't care if the guy was real or not. Fact of the matter is that the crash happened and this is some damn good firsthand footage.

This video shows NOTHING of the sort.

A few facts of the situation.

Quite a few people saw the plane crash. Many ran to the scene of the accident.

It happened on a military base (albeit disused or decommissioned). There are protocols that require the securing a diplomatic aircraft after an accident. This is just like if Air Force One were to crash, a special force would need to be sent in to secure the site and keep the surviving dignitaries, politicians, etc safe and to administer first aid. And yes, this also means forcefully removing any gawkers, rubber-neckers, would-be attackers that get too close to the crash site. Yes shots can be fired in warning. This was a DIPLOMATIC aircraft that crashed. Securing the head of state is important.

Also the "translations" of the video are ALL wrong. As soon as I find the correct one I will post it here.

Do not forget that since this was a diplomatic aircraft, there were security forces onboard. And what do security forces have with them? Ammo! What happens when ammo is set on fire? It cooks off. Thats what it sounds like.

This video is doing nothing more than fanning false pretenses and assumptions, in order to create a false version of events, upon which more hatred can be added into a very sad and tragic event.

Upon further review, it sounds and looks like the Russian forces are shooting warning shots at the trespassers and gawkers.

[edit on 4/29/2010 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


hold up, the "translations" are all wrong? you will find one? erm, where are you gonna find one, and how are you going to verify its right? do you speak russian? polish? if you do, please translate it for us, otherwise, you finding something won't help.

reply to post by GenRadek


Further more, it's most likely that you did not even read all of the posts, as you started the bullets in fire story all over again. Read everything, and debate everything, If you think you can justify your post by only pointing a few inconsistencies as you claim, then your post is as faulty as your claim of us making claims about the translation and such.

Originally posted by Ptenjakin

Selling it to any corporation gives them the jurisdiction on whether or not to put it out there. What if they don't show the video?

Why wouldn't they?

And how would it have made him any safer...according to unofficial reports people just KILLED him anyway.

Some bloke no-one has heard of gets killled

Some bloke who's video has just been broadcast on the BBC, ABC, Fox etc has suddenly died ....

Which would be more likely to be noticed and raise questions?

Either way, what story does not ring true to you? The story that he was killed? The story of the crash? The video?

The story that someone takes video of a major international news event but the video only appears on youtube. Several days later. With no verification.

The story that someone takes video of a major international news event but the video only appears on youtube. Several days later. With no verification.

I get your point, as I get many peoples points they make not only on this thread. But how do you feel about this?

Some questions I have for you

1. Mysterious man puts up UT vid without any verification, would he wanted to do that or did he had time to do it? because If this is all genuine you would want to put it up there ASAP.

2. Only on you tube why not the big media?, People are discovered on youtube when singing a song from an album of beyonce for example, would you question there vid because they did not send it to huge music corp like sony? I would not because maybe that was not there main intention.

If you can help your most welcome. Anything would be helpful, but not talking about these sort of things. I rather have you debunk everything than only fueling the negative spin these sort of remarks could create.

Kind regards,

Tim

[edit on 29-4-2010 by AquaTim84]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by AquaTim84]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by AquaTim84]

reply to post by GenRadek


You are sadly mistaken my friend, at least about ammunition "cook off". The sounds of ammunition expenditure due to fire exposure are far different from ammunition actually fired through a gun barrel. If you read my post on the second page of this thread, I explain it in more detail, along with a simple at-home test you can do to verify the science. Look at my post on the second page of the thread, towards the top.

Also, while this whole situation could be nothing more than an accident, there are many odd things that would need further investigation because due to the evidence so far, it looks highly suspicious.

--airspoon

The noise that sometimes comes in the vid. is it a foghorn or a train.?

Don't know if I'm looking wrong on google earth but I can not find any railroads tracks near the crash site.
Is it a standard, blow the foghorn when looking for survivals .?

reply to post by Quantom


It's an alarm on the base, not a train.

Originally posted by ponyboyats
u2us sent to russian translators, now all we gotta do is wait and see if they will show up and confirm that what you hear in the video is what is on the transcripts. then we'll be done w/ Rand or raud whatshisname's confrimation requests

I'll try to translate it all, here goes:
0:14 - Calm Down
0:19 - Something to do with eyes, can't hear it that well and judging by the subs it's Polish, which I don't understand almost at all, but some words in Polish and Russian are similar, so I can figure some of it.
0:21 - Can't translate
0:24 - Calm Down
0:27 - Someone arrives/shows up, again, I can't fully translate it.
0:30 - Where?
0:37 - Something to do with camera
0:40 - Something to do with moving/zooming camera.
0:45 - He's leaving
0:50 - Move over here, you bastard
0:52 - Kill over there (can't put a coherent sentence together, just translating this one word by word)
- Don't *harm us *Could be harm, a wild guess based on similarities with Russian language.
0:55 - *Alive * The same again.
- Shoot
0:57 - Something to do with armor/weaponry, could be reloading, but I'm just basing this on the translation in the first post.
0:59 - Gunshot
1:01 - Holy S***
1:03 - Something to do with a movement near pilot's cabin.
1:07 - Gunshot
1:11 - Don't know the translation.
1:12 - Everybody back and some polish insult.
1:15 - Gunshot
1:17 - Something to do with a gunshot/shooting
1:20 - Father, we are leaving.
1:21 - Let's go, Kola (Again, partially basing this on the first post, but it's along those lines)
1:22 - Holy S***
1:25 - Could be "Pay attention to the person showing up" Or something vaguely similar.
1:57 - First post is probably right, 2 persons seen before or something like that
3:25 - What do you think? Sorry about all the explicit phrases. Hello to the thinking/questioning people. (Something along that)

What is that at 2:19 that is being zoomed in on...a head?

Did this video remind anyone else of playing Counterstrike? Sorry, not being insensitive, but it did. o:

Pz.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by susp3kt]

I like the part where in the end the older man dressed in dark blue and seems to be wearing a hat is walking by, turning around and continues walking toward the crash. He is not alarmed by what video supposedly portrays. I have a good monitor, good graphics card and 20/20.... just can't make out what people are telling us "is" going on.
Not a single Putin criticizing source made a case out of this video.
I doubt there were survivors.
OP .... how many fingers am I holding in the air?
Correct ... you can't see.
That is zero.
This video is a bit above the zero?
If Russian Spetsnaz would be killing survivors, there would be NO survivors. Area would be locked up fast. That is including the lets' call him "telephone guy". And how about an old man in blue?
No one is asking a question what the "dead" guy's what nationality? Polish? (Help here someone). Why is he speaking Russian with no accent? Wouldn't he be casing in own language? And he does in Russian? Strange.

By the way it is confirmed there was no explosion on the aircraft. It hit the tree/s broke, people were killed... so go to another subject, thank you.

Video proves nothing.

reply to post by Arthx


And you .... do hear all that in the video???!!

"Holy s**t" is a soft translation...

It's a lot ruder what he said.

reply to post by djehuti333


This is my first EVER post here on ATS so please bear with me if I mess something up.

I have looked at this video as well, I don't speak Russian, Polish or any other language other than English.

What I take away from this video and what gives me chills is what I see:

At aprox 30 seconds into the video the man filming the crash looks to have noticed a "possible" survivor wearing something white and starts walking over to them. The train whistle then blows, you hear excited voices and the man backs away in a hurry.

At aprox 56 seconds into the video the train whistle stops and you can hear what seems to be the first gunshot. The man filming moves away even faster and says something like an explitive. You then see someone "possible" survivor running from what looks like a large piece of the plane crash (cocpit?). Away from the gunshot sound.

At aprox 1:09 minutes into the video the man filming stops for a moment and you see someone appear to fire a shot at the ground or in the general direction of where it looks like the "possible" survivor in white would have been.

I can't tell for certain that anybody survived the crash or was killed by the Russians or anybody else for that matter. All I know is that most police or military people that show up to secure a crash site don't fire their weapons for ANY reason.

It does not appear to me that the shots that were fired were in any way warning shots. If they were, they wouldn't have been so sporatic.

Was it a hit? IMHO it sure does look that way. Can I prove it? No. But... Useing the only bit of evidence that is out there I don't get the impression that this was just some random plane crash.

reply to post by Gammaversion


Ok great explanation. Now plx explain why someone orders "shoot" someone sais "don't hurt/kill us" and someone sais "he's runnin away". Oh also please explain da gunshots. And yes dude does cuss in russian but polish and russian ppl are very close and most poles speak/understand russian and vice versa he could live in poland and be from russia as are a lot of ppl in poland after ussr broke up

Originally posted by Gammaversion
reply to post by Arthx

 

And you .... do hear all that in the video???!!

"Holy s**t" is a soft translation...

It's a lot ruder what he said.

I didn't hear all the polish phrases fully.
Yeah, the phrase is, umm, stronger, but the meaning is pretty much the same.

The guy could have been wondering what to do with the video for days.

Without speaking Russian I could guess he got the shock of his life on this day. There are certain moments where you can see he realises he's in deep #. But what he saw that we didn't... who knows?

So, maybe he just didn't know what to do with the video? Maybe he was too afraid, or just in shock.

It's always easy to judge when you're not involved. I can't say what did or didn't happen, even though my feelings say there is something sinister about the situation(but I think most people that think this, felt this the moment the saw the news).

reply to post by Arthx


Ok my question would also be what do u hear as the transcriot could be wrong. Specifically what do u hear between 0.50 and 1.00 of the video. Is what u hearing corresponding with the transcript?