The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

reply to post by Everwatcher33


Funny thing but my husband's fingerprints came back within minutes! Crazy I know. Now they tell people it typically doesn't take longer than 24 hours granted that your name isn't common. IF you are a John Smith it can take a month to weed thru all the names to make sure you arent' that person.

I do know the process is shorter now and more streamlined but still it is a nightmare for those in it. Not as long a nightmare as it was back 7 plus years ago granted.

I just hope it keeps getting better and better and that we overhaul much of the garbage.

reply to post by Bicent76


Sorry. You don't get much whiter than me. Pale skin and blue eyes. My family has been in this country since before it was a country and I am very much against this new law. I think it is too broad and bound to be abused. Never has there ever been a law in this country that was not exploited and loopholed, etc....

reply to post by mishigas


The big deal is "be a citizen" you aren't required to show any ID. I might choose to drive a car, or use a credit card. But that is a choice. My being a citizen and having rights however is a given not a choice.

I will not whip out ID just because someone with a badge happens to ask. Unless of course I am choosing to do something that requires ID.

reply to post by rcwj1975


I believe you have no bias. In fact I believe most Law Enforcement in Arizona has no bias however, all it takes is one to ruin this law. And let's face it, there is always one... And therein lies the problem for me.

reply to post by ouivalerie


Most of the time Illegals are given the option to voluntarily leave the country within 24 hours. This way they are less likely to incur a ban and no trial or investigation is started.

Many choose to do this if they have no other family in the US.

reply to post by phatkhat


Most Mexicans have no interest in being American or moving to the USA. I have several Mexican friends who can't fathom why anyone would leave Mexico or think America is better. They have also told me that they don't mind those who do leave Mexico because the perception is most of those who illegally cross the boarder to the USA are criminals and uneducated poor. They feel their country is better off without them. And if you think about it isn't that essentially what the Mexican gov says everytime the US complains about illegals?

reply to post by QuantumDeath


Fortunately for the USA having a child that is a American Citizen is not any excuse for being able to stay here. They deport people every day from this country who have an American Citizen child.

In some ways having a child when you are illegal is often looked at as being neglectful to the child and doesn't look good on paper in a court.

The thing about the police officers experience is it has nothing to do with the new Arizona law. He made a legitimate traffic stop. In Arizona if a person looks Mexican you have to stop them and ask for papers. This is called racial profiling, ask black people how much they enjoy that. As for the Latina and her lazy argument about illegals raising our taxes and burdening the welfare system its not true check out the stats there is no basis in reality for that argument she should also go to Arizona and see how fun it is to be pulled over for no other reason than being Latina. The GA police officer should also know in Arizona if the citizens dont think you're doing a good enough job they can sue you. This is a voter suppression law plain and simple as the republicans are losing much of their old white people base. I have yet to see anyone post about the Stalinist tatics this mirrors and the decline of the freedoms of Americans that are slowly coming into effect fight now or we all will have to carry papers

reply to post by Locutis


Number one they dont get free health care they do have a bill to pay second why would not paying social security bother you? THEY DON"T HAVE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS SO HOW WOULD THEY COLLECT IN THE FIRST PLACE?
What they do do is spend everything they make most of it back into the US Economy keeping jobs for Americans. You see?capitalism works

reply to post by Identified

reply to post by mishigas


The big deal is "be a citizen" you aren't required to show any ID. I might choose to drive a car, or use a credit card. But that is a choice. My being a citizen and having rights however is a given not a choice.

I will not whip out ID just because someone with a badge happens to ask. Unless of course I am choosing to do something that requires ID.

Where did you get that (incorrect) idea that "be a citizen" you aren't required to show any ID? That's bullcrap. I'm a citizen and I have to show ID.

Someone with a badge will not just "happen to ask". Not unless you are part of a probable cause investigation.

Don't spread disinfo like that. Do some reading and learn the facts.

reply to post by dpeat

In Arizona if a person looks Mexican you have to stop them and ask for papers. This is called racial profiling, ask black people how much they enjoy that.

And yet another line of bullcrap. Pure BS.

Please stop spreading disinfo.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
As many on ATS know I am a Law Enforcement Officer in Georgia and have been keeping an eye on the many threads posted about the new Arizona ILLEGAL Immigration Bill. Reading so many posts you see such a broad spectrum of beliefs, ideas, emotions, etc...but I haven't noticed many commenting on the following.

As a LEO I need Probable Cause or atleast Articutable Reasonable Suspicion to make a traffic stop or stop someone on the street. The Arizona Bill fear is that cops will profile and stop "hispanics" for just simply looking hispanic and forget about PC or ARS. Is that a valid fear, sure. There are people of ALL professions who simply suck at their jobs and tend to break rules to do things THEIR way, BUT what about those of us who do the job right and do come across ILLEGAL aliens?

Case in point. I mentioned on another thread that the other day I stopped a 2009 Ford Mustang doing 89 in a 55 and the driver happened to be "hispanic". Now the driver could not produce a valid drivers license, BUT handed me these awesome FAKE International Drivers Licenses they get for $50 here in Atlanta. Now after a few checks it was confirmed he was not licensed to drive the vehicle so he was arrested. Now, this driver is 24 years old working at Tyson Chicken driving a $30,000 car...ok fine, but then while searching his person I find a Social Security Card in his wallet and the card ended up being stolen and this scumbag was using and DESTROYING the credit of an elderly woman in the area, while he was thriving. Anyway, the car was impounded and I charged him, taking him to the jail. So I ask you folks...as a LEO KNOWING (100%) that this guy is not only a criminal...he IS an ILLEGAL alien from Mexico...should I and my State have the power to make sure he is deported back? Or should I do what we have been doing for years....call ICE and tell them what we have, only to be told they are not interested? Sounds like AZ was sick of hearing this answer for everyone they wanted to get out of their cities.

Someone, PLEASE give me a legitimate answer as to why local police and other agencies should NOT be allowed to deal with these guys/gals directly and get them out of here. What reasoning could you possibly come up with when the stop was legit, the arrest was legit, the lack of citizenship CONFIRMED, and he/she IS caught doing criminal deeds? You don't need to be a "fed" to check the status of citizenship....that is called an excuse by the Government to make the rest of the populace actually believe locals can't enforce this BS!

EDIT TO ADD: He had NO passport, NO visa, NO nothing....and yes he did admit he paid a coyote $200 to come across somewhere in TX....

[edit on 4/28/2010 by rcwj1975]

LOL got two sentences into this and started laughing. All Cops pull the same crap when they wish to pull someone over and it's ""the light on your license plate is out" which it NEVER is

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Someone, PLEASE give me a legitimate answer as to why local police and other agencies should NOT be allowed to deal with these guys/gals directly and get them out of here. What reasoning could you possibly come up with when the stop was legit, the arrest was legit, the lack of citizenship CONFIRMED, and he/she IS caught doing criminal deeds?

Pretty basic really…

The Democrats want them here because they are voting (illegally, but they still get away with it) for the democratic ticket.

The Republicans want them here because the companies, who foot the bill for their ride into office, want the cheap sweatshop labor that these folks perform.

Follow the money and power…

I remember working a case way back. Old man was picked up for being one of those "illegals" some of you people are afraid of. I asked him the standard sworn statement questions. I also went out of the box. I asked him if he evedr served in the US military. he said "Yes, Sir". Those of us processing him kinda raised our eyebrows. Then I asked him when? He replied "1943 to 1945, in the pacific". Then I asked him if he had proof. He told us (by then my boss was there), he had his discharge paper framed on a wall, in the house. Long story short, we drove to his son's (a LAPR) home and asked the son about his father. Now the old man had been a prior deport many times. The son was aware that his old man would get sent back to Mexico every once in awhile, but was ok with that. They had family on both sides. We asked the son if the father's story about a framed discharge paper in the home in Mexico. He was aware of the paper and knew his father served in the US military. We asked him if he would mind being driven to the border town where the father had a home, to bring this back to show us. He didn't mind. The son also asked if he should being back a few medals&ribbons he also had next to it. We said of course. All in all, this old mexican, an american job stealing, taxpayer money stealing "Illegal" had a discharge from the US Army, with proof of his being awarded the Purple Heart, Bronze Star & Silver Star for action in the Pacific. According to Immigration Law, he was granted US Citizenship automatically for service during wartime and during specified years. The old guy had NEVER filed a VA claim nor received any Veterans benefits from 1945 to 1986, because nobody ever told him he was a USC after WW II he kept coming and going from his home in Mexico to places in Texas. With him being a USC, his family also derived citizenship. Yea, guys like that are a menace. I can see why people are afraid of "Illegals". I wonder how many USC's that rant and rave about the "immigration crisis" actually serve their country? How many actually put their necks on the chopping block?

Originally posted by Identified
reply to post by phatkhat

 

Most Mexicans have no interest in being American or moving to the USA. I have several Mexican friends who can't fathom why anyone would leave Mexico or think America is better. They have also told me that they don't mind those who do leave Mexico because the perception is most of those who illegally cross the boarder to the USA are criminals and uneducated poor. They feel their country is better off without them. And if you think about it isn't that essentially what the Mexican gov says everytime the US complains about illegals?

I'm sure there are many that feel that way, but also many don't. Many come for different reasons but not just one. But let's be frank anything we do is going to cost alot of money just to send a few people back and also at the cost of our own liberty.

The 'north american union' solution doesn't have to be to the same extent as the EU. No NAU currency necessary, plastic is good enough. Just open borders to a certain degree, but not to the extent of the EU's. Help fund Mexican public schools to teach english.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by phatkhat]

reply to post by NMRaptor



Good story, but you ruined it by implying that "Yea, guys like that are a menace. I can see why people are afraid of "Illegals". As if the audience would not recognize and want to reward this individual with citizenship. Your cynicism was poorly placed.

Do you thing that the illegal that murdered that AZ rancher recently by shooting him in the back was a US Vet? I doubt it. Those are the ones people are afraid of and want to keep out of our country.

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by NMRaptor

 

Good story, but you ruined it by implying that "Yea, guys like that are a menace. I can see why people are afraid of "Illegals". As if the audience would not recognize and want to reward this individual with citizenship. Your cynicism was poorly placed.

Do you thing that the illegal that murdered that AZ rancher recently by shooting him in the back was a US Vet? I doubt it. Those are the ones people are afraid of and want to keep out of our country.

And your solution is..?

Originally posted by phatkhat

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by NMRaptor

 

Good story, but you ruined it by implying that "Yea, guys like that are a menace. I can see why people are afraid of "Illegals". As if the audience would not recognize and want to reward this individual with citizenship. Your cynicism was poorly placed.

Do you thing that the illegal that murdered that AZ rancher recently by shooting him in the back was a US Vet? I doubt it. Those are the ones people are afraid of and want to keep out of our country.

And your solution is..?

Solution?

A good start would be to get the facts straight, and to stop spreading bullcrap and disinfo, as I have already pointed out twice on this page.

There are no easy answers to our immigration problem. I live in Vidiala onion country, we employ alot of immigrants here, so I live amongst the problem. The vast majority of these people are good hardworking people who are looking for a better life. They mind their business,pay their bills, do their jobs, and work very very hard for themselves.

Out of the thousands who come here to work there are always a few bad apples,drunk uninsured drivers is usually the biggest offence we see around here. You have that amongst any group of people of any race,the laws are created because of the actions of the few irresponsibles in society,race ethnicisity aside.

The biggest issue I see is they are treated like modern day slaves which imo they are. Even the slaves were fed and housed,these people work for a pittance and only through excessive amounts of labor,do they make anything approaching a livable income.

Their employers are some of the richest people in our communities,they have the finest homes usually another one on the coast for the weekends. Their kids go to private schools,one broker I know (they market and sell the onions) recently paid $1.5 million cash for several hundred acres he could use as his little private hunting club! These employers can afford to pay more and they can afford to pay workers comp,minimum wage,provide insurance and all the other benifits we Americans enjoy but because the immigrants have no rights they dont have to and therefore they dont. This leaves the rest of us taxpayers on the hook for the immigrants social drains such as unpaid hospital bills etc.

In essence I'm for some type of reform and I feel it starts with those who benifit from these people, not by punishing the people who are here to better their lives and escape their poverty at home.

Originally posted by mishigas

Originally posted by phatkhat

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by NMRaptor

 

Good story, but you ruined it by implying that "Yea, guys like that are a menace. I can see why people are afraid of "Illegals". As if the audience would not recognize and want to reward this individual with citizenship. Your cynicism was poorly placed.

Do you thing that the illegal that murdered that AZ rancher recently by shooting him in the back was a US Vet? I doubt it. Those are the ones people are afraid of and want to keep out of our country.

And your solution is..?

Solution?

A good start would be to get the facts straight, and to stop spreading bullcrap and disinfo, as I have already pointed out twice on this page.

Ok...>PC