Internet Users Have Been Defamed by the Anti-Defamation League

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Risen

 

My friend there is nothing in my post that condones or promotes violence.

It simply explains the nature of the attack on free speech, to promote a stifling culture of political correctness.

Additionally I think you might have missed Skeptic Overlord's clear displeasure at the fact that the statements attributed to ATS members were out of context and not cited.

Let me show you how easy this is.

"I was shocked to read that so, and so, said kill them all"

ADL says ProtoplasmicTraveler said "Kill them all"

I think you misunderstood me. Saying anything about killing another human being can be used to make you appear as a murderer and a threat to society. Very easily. The context doesn't matter, because you mentioned violence, and that's all you need to do for them to paint you as a violent person. Be aware of this.

Now I get you don't like some Network News Personalities, notice how I did not say journalists.

Now personally I don't watch the news, but guess what else I don't do?

I am not a corporate media titan that signs their paychecks either!

Corporations that run the government that want to take away our right to free speech.

So perhaps you might want to ask yourself, are such personallities being hired and promoted by the Network Media, to manipulate you, into thinking free speech is dangerous.

Trying to twist my words. Nice. I'm a big advocate for free speech, which you already know, but you're going to ignore that in order to paint me in a certain way, and are guilty of using the same methods you're supposedly so outraged about them using on you. You don't care about what i really believe, only what version of me you can invent that would best further your goal in this discussion.

Do not try to confuse the issue here by claiming that threatening and suggesting violence is the same as my right to publicly criticize government in a calm and rational manner. Uttering threats towards your neighbor or some random guy walking down the street will also get you in trouble, and that's not considered a free speech violation.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Risen]

Maybe if our government hadn't been liars for oh the past 100 years or more and if we could really trust anyone in those seats of power we would be ok... But TOO BAD!
We are awake and aware and guess what even though your #e all education system tried to dumb us down, WE ARE EDUCATED, most of us had to do it ourselves for ourselves.

We are not terrorists we are HUMANS with rights and feelings and understanding.

HELL NO I do not trust my government and HELL YEAH I am critical, reason being THEY SUCK AT THEIR JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how any of these people get to where they are nor do I really know who supports most of them (that are not in the "special interest" group.

Oh and now that corporate beings have more rights then I do, guess what, EVEN MORE SCUM WILL BE IN OFFICE>

Nuff said.

One of the quotes on page four of the PDF gave me chills, because the original poster seems to be predicting what the quote is being used for, at least as a first step.

“There’s gonna be another rounding up of the ‘Jews,’ but this time it’s gonna be Americans who don’t believe in the gov. and there [sic] gonna call us names. Prepare for it. Get your mind set for it because I know that I’m gonna be doing my part.” Post by “Big Philly” to the Survivalist Boards, March 26, 2010.

Does this read like a bad joke to anyone else?

And because we all know that several government agencies are watching, let me be clear that I watch the news everyday and believe everything I see on television. I think that Anderson Cooper is hot, and I love Hilary Clinton's haircut. I'm perfectly content to do what I'm told, and I try not to think hard about anything other than carbs. That one time that I voted for Ralph Nader, I was only being ironic.

If you missed the first two hours of History Channel's "America: the Story of US", it's being repeated this Friday from 8PM-10PM Eastern Daylight Savings Time.
You'll see what happened when early Americans had their dignity trampled by an oppressive Crown, and how a group of rag-tag patriots managed to defeat an enemy of overwhelming military might. That is a lesson that Americans should not forget. It unfortunately IS a lesson that our crooked POLITICIANS HAVE NOT LEARNED........YET.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Are any of you surprised?

The Domestic Terrorist is the new fear in America. They've been playing on it all year and it will certainly continue and most likely conclude with some militia attack or something similar to 9/11, to be blamed on American Patriots.

Kind of ironic this is coming from the ADL.

No sources either. Is anybody calling them out on this? I haven't seen any MSM coverage of the report, although I don't watch much of it anyway.

~Keeper

I totally agree! Hard to believe so many didn't see this coming! Of course, maybe they glimpsed it, and refuted it. Yet here it is, another step in making anyone who dares imagine the other side of things someone to fear! It's because we pass out information that is IMPORTANT (MOST OF THE TIME) and/or something CLOSE TO TRUTH... That in itself is enough to make our government sh*t their britches so to speak. I enjoy being on the end of the spectrum that actually sees and knows the truth, rather than to graze in the pasture of lies, along with other sheep in the dead, far beyond rescue, subliminally raped, south pawed side of town.
And as for the MSM, them sorry suck-ups work for DC, so anything that dribbles out from their sorry mouths is propaganda for the most part, if not an outright LIE. I'd like to say we're screwed, but since I'm one of the ones who will FIGHT BACK when the NWO comes a callin'. I wonder how many on this site will say the same thing?!
All of this is just one more tool in stripping away a few more rights, and enough probable cause with "we the people" to come in on us all, and get rid of the "Pain in the asses" who actually deliver something to chew on, instead of being STUCK ON some dumbass reality show, or GLUED TO a damn video game. CAN I GET AN AMEN?!
No, I am not advocating an sort of "violence", nor calling for "extreme measures." I'm just here to say that when the 1st idiot comes along my path to say, "gimmie your guns" or "you're under arrest" for saying the president and his advisors/collegues are dipsh*ts, via a blog-post on the internet... God help that person. If we let them get this far, we deserve to be imprisoned.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by InDeep#Now]

I'm so happy to see this being "faught" in the good way!

When I first read it, I thought it was a joke. A poor internet PDF file with nothing more than a poor job of collecting users answers to topics they do not even put in the report.

It was such a joke to me, because I didn't know who ADL was/is for the matter since I live in Denmark and as far as I can understand, they are situated in America.

Anyways, I'm happy to see a site owner stand up for his members. This is why the ATS staff is so great, all of them, and of course, for the member who posted a thread about it in the first place!

The Internet - A place that cannot be "controlled".

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
In a recent report authored by the Anti-Defamation League, Internet users everywhere who express opinions that are highly critical of "government" have been viciously defamed as "extremists," "terrorists," and worse.

"highly critical of government"?...By "highly critical" you must mean calling for the assination and murder of elected officials.

Criticize and investigate the government and it's office holders without restraint...do it loudly..it is the essence of Democracy, but I have to tell you I have seen people here post some truly ugly calls to violence and murder which any rational observer would view as "Extremist".

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Context: Misrepresentation of Online Commentary

The report includes brief, out-of-context, snippets from three members of ATS. A casual look at the actual postings and opinions of those members provides a significantly different opinion than the expressions characterized by the report.

The report was about "Extremism" and thus they were not looking for nor citing the postings that offered balance.

Does that negate the posts they did cite?

The report completely ignores the evolution of the online culture, that of a new-found bravado associated with posting opinions anonymously. Huge segments of the population are participating in online discussions in a manner in which they may not behave during live person to person exchanges. Several academic studies from credentialed universities and sources have concluded that the higher-degree of intensity of online commentary is nothing more than braggadocio for the purpose of personal entertainment.

Real life (not virtual) examples exist of what men are capable of when afforded anonymity.

Also...one person's anonymous "virtual" bravado is capable of inspiring anothers real world actions.

Vacuum: No Citation or Bibliography

The omission of source citations in any report that attempts to analyze published opinion is not just rare, it's unprecedented. This exclusion of any means whereby the reader may confirm the findings of the report is not only suspect, it renders it little more than a work of sensationalist fiction.

Yes the lack of citation does erode the credibility of the work, but was the work intended to serve some purpose where credibility was neccessary? It could have been written by an intern trying to fill web-space for all I know.

Of course, given current events, we can conclude that the negligence is not the accidental act of an inexperienced researcher, it's the decisive act of someone with an agenda. That agenda is broad-based libel focused on people who take to the Internet to express their disaffection with the government.

I don't smell agenda...I smell a rushed, sloppy report by a likely unpaid intern.

Certainly, as intelligent and passionate people finding fault with our government, we must take care not to use words that may inspire violence.

This should have been the begining of your post.

I'll be frank....be glad the report was written in a ham-fisted fashion.

Myself, having been on ATS for couple of years now, could have easily directed them to some of the most ignorant, god-awful, racist, bigoted, anti-semitic calls to violence they could have ever imagined.

It doesn't make ATS a bad place, there are usually a weighty amount of rational and opposing views to the ugly ones, but to claim that this report somehow defames ALL INTERNET USERS....That is a bit much Bill.

This report was about Extremism and it's dangers in the context of the internet and like it or not...that means it is in part about ATS.

As always...just my 2 cents.

Edit to add snarky comment:

The "report" should be viewed by all those who express their opinions on the Internet as an overt effort to create unease among your ranks, with the ultimate aim of demonizing your free expression.

If I want to be told how I should "view" something I will watch Fox News.

As it is I view this report as something a high-school student would write the night before he has to turn it in. Nothing more, nothing less. That said, I agree with the general sentiment that there is much more rhetoric concerning violence on this and other forums lately.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by maybereal11

Myself, having been on ATS for couple of years now, could have easily directed them to some of the most ignorant, god-awful, racist, bigoted, anti-semitic calls to violence they could have ever imagined.

Then why didn't you?
My guess is you probably tried, but the "noise" has been overwhelming the "signal".
The point is, people in this country can say what they wan't about their dissatisfaction with the way things are. You may say bigotry and anti-semitism, while we say foreign agents are operating within our govenrnment, under the cover of the same type accusations you make about anti-semitism. It's a fine line when you start hurling that kind of trash, that it doesn't backfire on the foreign ops, and we all know who they are.

Go back and read this ATS post to see how insidious this BS campaign by the ADL is, by training law enforcment agencies all around us, and claiming that they are experts.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by maybereal11

As it is I view this report as something a high-school student would write the night before he has to turn it in. Nothing more, nothing less. That said, I agree with the general sentiment that there is much more rhetoric concerning violence on this and other forums lately.

And yet, all this immature report accomplished was adding to that rhetoric. The report offered no reasonable analysis, no valuable insight and merely reiterated the very same rhetoric it seems to be alarmed with. Sort of like having a weak stomach when around someone else that is puking. Now both of them are puking.

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Myself, having been on ATS for couple of years now, could have easily directed them to some of the most ignorant, god-awful, racist, bigoted, anti-semitic calls to violence they could have ever imagined.

Then why didn't you?

Why would I? ...Serious question...to what end?

You may say bigotry and anti-semitism, while we say foreign agents are operating within our govenrnment, under the cover of the same type accusations you make about anti-semitism. [edit on 27-4-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

Are you capable of anything beyond binary thought?

I am sure there are "foreign agents" within our government (with what I assume you are implying israels interests in mind). Governments do that to one another.

That does not validate anti-semitism or bigotry....or vindicate hate groups.

Those that are opposed to anti-semitic rhetoric are foreign agents?

Seriously confused on how your thinking works.

This goes hand-in-hand with this... Watch carefully.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by maybereal11

 

As it is I view this report as something a high-school student would write the night before he has to turn it in. Nothing more, nothing less. That said, I agree with the general sentiment that there is much more rhetoric concerning violence on this and other forums lately.

And yet, all this immature report accomplished was adding to that rhetoric. The report offered no reasonable analysis, no valuable insight and merely reiterated the very same rhetoric it seems to be alarmed with.

I have to agree with you there. The report kind of borders on the comedic at times.."guntoter" at the forum "Militia corner" has some anti-government things to say LOL

No Sh*& sherlock.

I am equally unimpressed with the report as I am with SO anaylsis and interpretation of it as some type of giant campaign against internet users et al.

Ask me if I think there are bigoted, ignorant, racist posts on ATS and if there is an uptick in a call for violence...YES...very much so. But it is not just ATS it is other internet forums as well.

The report was useless in most every way...but YES there is an uptick in violent rhetoric...on the web...at the rallys...in our general poltical debate in this country, even among politicians.

It's dumb, ugly, dangerous and most of all contrary to what our democracy stands for. We elect leaders or vote them out...otherwise we are Cuba, North Korea and every other regime that seized power through violence and fear in "the name of the people".

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I caught the tail end of the radio broadcast on Sat night and had to go searching for an ADL thread to fill in the blanks. I was shocked to see what they qualified as a "report". I agree with all of your points. Well stated.

reply to post by Springer


At the very least they appear to be intent on redefining research methodology and reporting. Frankly it should be an embarrassment to them.

reply to post by maybereal11


You know, I spent over a decade tending bar when I was younger. I worked many different bars, saloons, and clubs and even an piano bar, and in each instance there were several common denominators.

One was that practically everyday I would be expected to listen to some racial joke and expected to laugh at it once the punch line came. I have always been uncomfortable with these sort of jokes, but relied heavily upon tips to make a living, and I was faced with either offending the joke teller, or surely offending someone else by laughing. My solution became to listen, and once the punch line came to respond with a confused look and explain I didn't understand the joke.

I would make the joke teller explain the joke at least twice before pointing out that explaining jokes destroys the humor. This would usually get a laugh from all listening, and I became so famous for that tactic, that it got to the point where I didn't have to explain the problem with explaining jokes. Usually another customer would take that line for me, which only further removed me from any offense that might construed for not laughing at the joke.

I had customers that were anti-semitic, anti-immigration, anti-whatever you can think of, but all of these people, whether rich man, poor man, beggarman, thief, doctor, lawyer, merchant, chief...all were drunks. Even so, regardless of the vitriolic rhetoric that could often be heard coming from these drunks, there were always moments where the camaraderie and brotherhood of drunks broke down these barriers and I would witness people known for their anti-Semitic attitude stand tall and defend the Jew drinking with him or next to him, I have seen drunks utter the N word every other sentence, and yet, when confronted with watching someone else make nasty remarks to a customer who was black, would jump in and defend that mans right to just have a beer and be left alone.

I have seen remarkable deeds done by quite ordinary people who are far from virtuous, but far more complex than labels will allow. I have seen people who would easily be labeled as hate mongers show such capacity for love and compassion it would make my jaw drop. I have seen humanity, and for all its problems, what I see is capacity for greatness, and often times I am privileged to see such greatness reach its potential. I have seen it amongst drunks and I have seen it here. We can choose to focus on all that is bad with people, or we can look for all that is great in them, and hold them to our expectations with love and compassion. The former is the easy choice, the latter, in my humble opinion, is the preferable choice.

The quote below is from Page 3 of the ADL report:

"While many initiatives launched by the Obama administration have prompted extremist reactions, some of the most explicit threats related to the health care legislation However, it is noteworthy that the overheated and alarmist rhetoric is not really about health care per se."

Do you notice a common puntuation mark missing after the word 'legislation'?

You know, instead of bashing the internet, maybe the JDL may want to consider embracing and benefiting from it. Using one of the numerous free classified sites to find themselves a competent proofreader comes to mind.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Read your post three times thinking about a "rebuttal" and then just took a deep breath and gave you a damn star.

Peace out

reply to post by nenothtu


And that, nenothtu, is exactly what my post was all about.

Defamation : Also Called Calumny, Vilification, and Slander

The Anti-Defamation League did nothing but point to the most barbaric commentary.

If it wanted to create a fair and balanced report it might have shown the other side of the table from those they claim as "extremists", meaning they intentionally were inflammatory, not only creative divisive and hypocritical rhetoric, but inciting agitation against online forums, just as a political tool.

Nothing more.

In other words, they used gasoline to fan flames, when they could have curbed a political fire through demostrating this alleged "blaze" was only spotty at best.

I will give a few examples using my own threads.

Below is my strongest opposition to Bush.

Political Collusion of a President and Congress in Collapsing America, The Fall of the New Rome

...and...

This one is one of my strongest oppositions to Obama.

Obamaland : Cotton Candy, Gumdrops, and Rainbow Dreams, This is the Land of Collusion

Now, not once did I call for violence, nor did I threaten directly or indirectly either President.

But, if the A.D.L. had parsed it down they would have found little commentary.

And pointed it out as threatening towards President Bush and President Obama.

Which is the farthest from the truth as possible, considering I was speaking to the political partisanship of both parties, through examples of actual politics.

And as well, pointing out policy misuses, abuses, and or rhetoric.

In other words, actually speaking intelligently, about politics.

One other example, one in how to literally "overthrow" Government.

How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive

Now, see I used the example of non-violence, and legal means.

And the thread did die here on ATS because I did not include M-16's or C-4.

So, while I have proved the A.D.L. as selectively slithering around what they prosed, I have as well shown they have some basis, in fact, just that it was selective.

I choose my words wisely and speak not to violence but of creative means to effect change.

I challenge not just you, but other members, to point out some non-violent threads.

Basically, I believe A.D.L. did nothing but dump gasoline on a fire.

And hope to cause someone else to smother it through legislation.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by maybereal11

Are you capable of anything beyond binary thought?

Yes I am you 0111001101101000001000010111010001101000011001010110000101100100.

I am sure there are "foreign agents" within our government (with what I assume you are implying israels interests in mind). Governments do that to one another.

I never mentioned Israel, but in the context I'm not surprised that you did. You octadecimal thinker. Just Kidding LOL.

Those that are opposed to anti-semitic rhetoric are foreign agents?

When their publications, which are the topic of this thread, have nothing to do with anti-semitism, but only against those vocalizing about their dissatisfaction with various unpopular policies in the US govt, I say it is likely. Or are they having mission-creep???

Originally posted by awake
The ADL are so transparent it's sad. They work for the controlling powers, and will dance to any tune the CPs play. It's in the name as well - in the usual Orwellian 'newspeak' - using opposites to play a trick on the mind - the Anti-Defamation League are in the business of defamation - that's what they were set up to do, and they do their job!

It becomes real obvious when all the news channels, like magic, decide that what-ever the ADL or SPLC has to say is uber newsworthy. Who but the media really cares what these people have to say?.. what elevates their opinions or gives them credibility? I've seen CNN "fact check" an SNL skit that clowned obama, but the ADL, SPLC?.. beyond reproach apparently. Who the hell anointed mark potok king of virtue?, he who wields of the sword of justice and truth?

What motivates the media to arrange for a little creep with unfortunate hair like mark potok to sit around a studio all day while cable-news channels wait in que for the satellite link.. how the heck does an uninteresting clown get on every news channel, quoted in every paper.. there is a real honest media conspiracy right there...a group of power brokers somewhere are trying real hard to make potok interesting and relevant... and failing.