Internet Users Have Been Defamed by the Anti-Defamation League

reply to post by Crimson_King

I do not want to expand further in this line of discussion as I may be then targeted. I have been lurking around this website from last 3 - 3 and a half years and only joined recently but I have witnessed enough people silenced and I certainly do not want to be in that list.

I myself have been a member a little longer, but was not even aware of this site until the day I joined. It saddens me to think that you are not welcome to speak your mind freely in this site, and by freely I mean with in T&C, as I have not really seen any sort of silencing going on in this site. I have seen members warned, I myself have had a couple of posts removed for being off topic and one I did not even agree with at all and it really pissed me off, but this is not my site, nor my castle, and even so, I have been made to feel most welcome in this site, and the two posts I've had removed for being off topic is a small price to pay for the welcome I have received in this community.

That said, I wish to welcome you to ATS Crimson King, and I would encourage you to speak your mind whenever you feel the need to do so, and if indeed you feel you are being silenced or on a list of one soon to be silenced, I implore you U2U me and let me know, and I assure you, I will enter whatever thread you are having this problem in and passionately defend your right to speak as well and as openly as you have in this thread. It took courage to enter a thread where clearly few will agree with you and post your thoughts any way. This is most worthy of admiration, and I hope to see much more of you.

Just wanted to say congrats to Doc Velocity, Boondock-Saint and Sickle_And_Hammer! Keep up the ( ) "extremism."

Oh, and *#%@ the ADL and the totalitarian horse they rode in on.


TheAssoc.

[edit on 26-4-2010 by TheAssociate]

the pen is mightier than the sword

respect

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Given it is prose is it so hard to imagine his use of the phrase "throw a brick thru a window" is metaphorical outrage? Are metaphor's and similes no longer allowed in this day and age of "anti defamation" and punishment for hate speech?

There is a very real and quantifiable character that has been described in that post, and if you need it explained to you now, that the character in that post is disabled, and likely so, due to injury from war fought in the name of country, who is lamenting his disability and attempting to reconcile it with his actions as a poster, then of course, if I were your teacher, there would be much work to be done on my part, to somehow teach you how effective subtlety and nuance can be when speaking to the human condition.

I have read many posts by Boondock, but that post in particular I had never read until you quoted it, (and thank for doing so), and it is, quite frankly, a very poignant and wistful piece of prose worthy of admiration. To reduce it down to a threat to throw bricks in D.C.'s windows, is to miss the entire point of that post, and my experience with you is that you are much, much, much, more intelligent than that, my friend.

Thank You Jean Paul
I couldn't have stated it any better
There was a metaphor there
and you just don't see that much
of that writing style anymore in recent
literature. Therefore, the average person
never takes the time to fully understand it
through critical thinking skills.
Thank you for using yours

reply to post by Crimson_King

Originally posted by Crimson_King

'In my opinion' other than not citing and providing links to the concerned posts and forum ADL has not done anything wrong. They are not bound to provide a history of every subject or in what context the posts were made. The words written in the posts were same as was posted on discussion forum boards.

The operative phrase there is "other than". 'Other than' bilking several people out of billions of dollars, Bernie Madoff 'did nothing wrong'. An action is either legitimate or it is not. There is no 'other than'. See how that works?

That is your opinion which you are right to put in words but it doesn't necessarily means it is true. The rain which a person would find pleasing may be cause of flood in a different area.

Nor does it necessarily mean that it's NOT true. That's why we have courts in place, to decide those issues. We aren't talking about an unthinking rainfall here, we're talking about deliberate and decietful actions resulting in harm to others, to wit the besmirchment of their character. Rain does not decide how or where it falls. The ADL does decide such things for itself.

The report submitted was about a specific subject not of the history of any case and cited various "written" snippets from different forum boards. They certainly don't look fabricated or edited - they are word to word copy.

No, they are not 'fabricated', they are truncated and misrepresented. The ADL deliberately cherry picked and misrepresented comments to achieve political ends. When such action harms the original authors through misrepresentation, it is actionable.

ADL was running a report on a particular subject and they are not bound to provide history or context of each posts or that of online culture.

That is incorrect. The are bound by fairly specific legal notices associated with each post to provide proper attribution and links to the material in full. See the little button in the lower right corner of each post that says "copyright and usage"? It tells you what you need to know.

For EACH post.

Are the snippets written by the original intended users or not? If they are word to word written by the authors they cannot say it is out of context or fabricated in any way.

You are aware of the meaning of "context", right? In case you aren't I'll line it out: "context" refers to the material surrounding each word or sentence that provides a fuller insight into the specific meaning of said utterance. "Context" is one of the reasons for the copyright and usage notice, and is something the ADL blatantly and willfully ignored in cherry picking and misrepresenting the quotes in question. Yes, the quotes were "out of context".

Furthermore, the ADL, throught the agency of those who wrote, formulated, and posted their misleading report, willfully hindered the readers of the report in any possible pursuit of the context by failing to provide links to the full quote, as required.

Indeed they are written by the users and they bear the full responsibility of it.

Incorrect. The original authors are responsible for the content of their ORIGINAL material, not the truncated version presented by the ADL used to misrepresent their intent. The ADL bears full responsibility for that willful and deliberate misrepresentation.

The people who read the report should decide themselves whether they are or not related to the subject of the report.

As I mentioned above, the readers of the report were willfully hindered in any such quest by the deliberate failure of the ADL to comply with the legal notice supplied with EACH post, and failing to provide links to the material in full in their report. That is, in fact, the heart of this issue.

Since the posts were neither modified or deleted means they were acceptable to The Above Network terms and conditions What is and not acceptable to The Above Network conditions may/ will differ to the public opinion.

It apparently also differs from a willful action to mislead and misdirect that same public opinion. None of the posts were in fact threatening, or in violation of ATS T+C.

Nor were they intended as misrepresented in the ADL report.

On the contrary people are more willing to act on what they speak and form association with a particular mindset through online discussions. It displays their mindset and willingness to do things and under heat of the moment anyone can do anything. There is no proof people will not act on what they say on internet. How many times we have witnessed teenagers posting angrily on boards which often resulted in school massacre? Or even the recent plane crash in Austin Texas the alleged person left a angry note on the internet. It is increasingly becoming a phenomenon that many people post angry messages or indirectly call for violence and often act on it.

I submit that the ADL may have been better served by using such quotes as you mention in full. If they could find them.

This I agree with, links to the several message boards posts should have been provided...keeping in mind the type of report was prepared perhaps they have their own rules and conditions not to link anything which is threatening/ offensive in nature.

In that event, the ADL should not have used the quotes if they could not comply with the legal requirements and remain true to their own rules. The ADL may set their own rules, they may NOT set the rules for ATS.

I did not see any mention of banning or restricting free speech in the report. People have right to talk but when it starts bordering and crossing threats they should be monitored and acceptable action should be taken as per the law.

You must have missed the very first page of the report calling for mass roundups of dissidents by law enforcement based on the faulty and misleading presentation of the ADL then. I would call that a definite attempt to restrict free speech.

"Bordering", NO. "Crossing the line", YES. "Crossing the line" is an illegal act (Communicating Threats) and is dealt with in the law. By your logic of "borderline", anyone can make claim that anything is threatening, on the "borderline", and justify action, thus squelching free expression. Hell of a world that would be!

Internet users, you have been defamed by the Anti-Defamation League.

I wouldn't say so and certainly don't agree with this statement. Talking about illegal things directly or indirectly is wrong.

Incorrect. Talking about illegal things, directly or indirectly, is in no way 'wrong'. If it were, we would all be ignorant of illegal acts, since none could tell us about their occurence. Legally, there has to be more to it. This ADL porpaganda piece is an attempt to insinuate that there WAS more to these statements, and is therefore misleading and libelous.

That, sir, IS wrong. And illegal too!

This response has been truncated in the interest of brevity and to highlight the salient points, while also providing a link to your original post for full attribution.

See how easy that was?

Edit: for pesky spelling errors, as usual, and I doubt I got them all!



[edit on 2010/4/26 by nenothtu]

It is rather ironic that the ADL, which supposedly condemns Nazi Germany for their atrocities during the 1930's and 1940's, have decided to use the exact same tactics that the Nazis used- namely to vilify ALL opposition, and produce propaganda that make false claims against those opposed to them. The "oppressed" have become the oppressors. Joe Goebbels would be proud of their efforts.
They are the enemy of freedom, our Constitution and the American way of life, disguised as a group that allegedly protects rights.
As far as I am concerned, they are a CANCER on this land. Their true aims need to be disclosed, but of course, the MSM is complicit with them in their deception. Allow them and their ilk to continue to spread these lies and selective presentation of the facts, and our freedoms will disappear, under the guise of anti-defamation, and politically "correct" speech.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Yep, but at least the Nazi's were in your face about it, and didn't dance around the subject. They got to the point, and if you didn't agree, into the Stockades you went!!

And to Outkast Searcher - sure, they may not have edited anything that the lads said, but the simple fact is, by NOT putting all their comments in the report, well, it's a little thing called "MISREPRESENTATION".

Trust me dude, give me some time, and I could make anyone on here look like an anti-social, belligerent, full-blooded terrorist by picking and chosing certain quotes out of their posts.

But I am not a bitter and twisted entity like the ADL is. And I am not trying to influence any individuals in power like the ADL is. I'm just your average bloke that is trying to get by day to day.

Originally posted by dimicgs
Their enemy is the internet! It's impossible to control it worldwide

Unless they form the one world government or one world currency. Then yes they can be able to control it world wide. I myself have decided to make this forum my new home. This place has everything I like.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Crimson_King

 

So you did not read the thread, just the OP.

Others have posted the entire comments and they were not word for word in every instance.

Like Doc Velocity's comment, they cherry picked components of the comment.

I could cherry pick parts of your comment and make it look like you wanted to overthrow the world.

I would just have to rearrange them in whatever way I wanted, just as they did.

well from what I read of it, it seems that as if one of the ADL member is a member of this board and got owned badly in a debate several times. It is kind of like a child's temper tantrum when they don't get it their way and they use other means necessary to get things done.

After reading the reports and looking at what was written all I can say is that I really feel sorry for the people at the ADL. For all of that intelligence and wisdom, the ancestors and means to where they were suppose to stand up and support people to go by the wayside is just sad, and ultimately what they fail to see is the underlying cause behind those posts.
The people are upset at the government and when they have a means to vent and speak out, they are doing such. Yes it may seem a bit extreme and somewhat threatening, but what I am reading is that these people are feeling their backs up against the wall by a government who can no longer ill aford to keep ignoring the general population as it has been.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Didn't Rockerfeller say that the internet is a danger to the planet or something??
Seeing these lowball tactics comes as no surprize after what he said.

It is against the T&C to incite illegal activities and for me that should say it all.
Are we not allowed to question our governments actions without some kind of spin being put on us??

For me it is just another slimeball tactic to make internet users and anyone who questions what our governments are doing look bad.

You are exactly right...this is against what your forefathers had in mind and they would be rolling in thier graves if they were here today.

Yes he did.



Here is the link I got it from and there's also some more interesting reading on there about the internet.


[edit on 26-4-2010 by Phenomium]

what gets me the most is they are so worried about what we say and what the internet has they took most of tose statements out of context and what really gets me is how sloopy that was put together what do they monkeys and donkeys working for them? im mean really who cares what we discuss here i beleive this falls under freedom of speech. all i can say to all my friends here on ATS is that i feel at home here and welcome here i have only been a member for a short time and this site has done nothing more than help me open my mind more than it already was so to all of you on ATS THANK YOU

Nice to see someone moderate the moderators - shame they use a similar bias as to what is deemed acceptable and what is not.

For every decent well thought out and reasonable post I've seen wiped from public existence here I've seen 20 show up with nothing of merit whatsoever that are allowed to clamber on about their 'beliefs'.

Maybe have your team calm down on allowing the absurd and have them back up the intelligent and you wouldn't have peeved off whatever undergraduate on a policy writing placement the ADL have at the moment who is a member here

-m0r

There seems to be a PR push to make people who are critical of the government seem dangerous. Look at the recent comments on CNN. They seem to want to make the average person scared or distrustful of sites like ATS. They know sites like these can not be banned but the next best thing is to destroy credibility.

There is a difference between being anti-government and being
anti-corrupt government. Though there might be a few posters who fall into the anti-government category, most seem just to want a good government.

Also, predicting violence or expressing anger does not necessarily make someone dangerous. You really do have to look at vague statements in the entire context before you call them dangerous.

Expect more of these "reports" - the internet was becoming a little too powerful.

Slavery, treatment of Native Americans, lack of voting rights for women......Speaking out against these ideas was once anti-government too.

Sometimes the Government IS wrong and sometimes it's right to be angry.

By reading all of our good old american free speech opinions, 'the man' has figured out their once reliable MSM lackeys parroting "official" talking point news has lost just about all credibility, or gets flat out laughed at by growing numbers of pissed of citizen plebes. Dear party leaders 'flock rallying' dog whistles have worn out too as more people rally for a party that isn't the same old stale failures: GOP & DNC.

I think it was a roman politician who once suggested all of the empires tax-slaves should be ID'd by an arm-band.. but a wiser statesmen said it was a bad idea because the tax-slaves would be emboldened (or as the US govt says "radicalized") by their overwhelming numbers... imo the internet is our 'arm-band', the man knows it and he's firing at us both both barrels of the propaganda shotgun... and power grabbing proto-fascist laws.

The mans propaganda buck-shot is missing this time, he's not used to that.. despite his efforts more average people are being "radicalized" "anti-govt"..
One of the stupidest things ever: it's becoming blatantly obvious to millions... how interesting it is that the MSM, SPLC, ADL...all those pukes, they have all the time & money to investigate, scrutinize and crap on angry US citizens... while the low budget fictional "official" 9/11 story and other nefarious banker gangster concoctions of death, meh.. cases closed or only exist in conspiracy land.

I guess the ADL/SPLC clowns still expect people to actually believe the US govts epic fail honesty... as if our elected representatives are not elitist a-hole mafioso owned and operated by banker-gangster inc... oh no, our elected officials live and breathe peaceful average american virtue & respect for the rule of law (in front of cameras).. besides a rabid MSM "free press" watch-dog in on duty to "keep em honest" dontcha know.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi ..

Looks like the "ridicule" stage to me: tea partiers, militias, internet opinion posters, bloggers.. bah!, racist tinfoil hat wearing terrorist scum.. next up, the fight.

“It is only the dead who have seen the end of war”. -Plato

World War III, is an information war, it’s all about getting us to adopt a new view on the State as a Supreme Authority, and Political Correctness as the New Religion, and accepting that the State has total right over us in all ways.

And it is working with a lot of people, and we do see more and more people who view anything in the form of criticism or questioning of the State as being wrong, and dangerous.

Sites like ATS where alternative ideas flow freely and passionately are the current bulwark against that Hegelian effort to make the State the Total Supreme Authority, in what is best accurately termed as a Guerilla Counter Information War.

The State and its Media and Affiliated Institutions try to suppress the truth and foster these dangerous new totally submissive attitudes towards the State, and we work diligently to get the truth out there, and remind people that without freedom of speech there is no freedom at all.

Ultimately the only thing that is going to save us from their increased efforts and initiatives is our tireless diligent efforts against it.

As long as sites like ATS provide that networking and broadcasting platform to provide a forum and venue for free speech and the free exchange of ideas and news, then sites like ATS are going to be increasingly singled out.

It’s contingent upon us, to fight the good fight, and try to exercise enough forethought in our words, so that they are always ammunition against the Suppressive Hegelian State Principles and never for them.

We can win the Information War, but only if we can always hold on to the civilized higher ground in our rhetoric.

If we can do that, ultimately it will be the proponents of the Hegelian State that are viewed as the real danger to us all.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
And it is working with a lot of people, and we do see more and more people who view anything in the form of criticism or questioning of the State as being wrong, and dangerous.

I'm getting a bit sick of people pretending they're trying to cut down on criticism or intelligent opposition, because no one has criticized US actions more than me, yet i don't feel threatened by this at all.

If you go and look at the quotes they selected, and the underlying point behind the entire thing, it's strictly violence against the government they're concerned with. If you want to talk about how people are perfectly justified in taking violent action against their government, then that's something else entirely, but let not act like this is a witchhunt of any and all criticism and questioning.

Like i said before, as soon as you start repeating the threats of violence, vague or not, which Glenn Beck and others feed into your heads, you can no longer claim you were just passively criticising the governmet.

Only when you start talking about violence can they call you a potential terrorist. Learn the game they're playing.

reply to post by Risen


My friend there is nothing in my post that condones or promotes violence.

It simply explains the nature of the attack on free speech, to promote a stifling culture of political correctness.

Additionally I think you might have missed Skeptic Overlord's clear displeasure at the fact that the statements attributed to ATS members were out of context and not cited.

Let me show you how easy this is.

"I was shocked to read that so, and so, said kill them all"

ADL says ProtoplasmicTraveler said "Kill them all"

Now I get you don't like some Network News Personalities, notice how I did not say journalists.

Now personally I don't watch the news, but guess what else I don't do?

I am not a corporate media titan that signs their paychecks either!

Corporations that run the government that want to take away our right to free speech.

So perhaps you might want to ask yourself, are such personallities being hired and promoted by the Network Media, to manipulate you, into thinking free speech is dangerous.

What isn't dangerous is reading, and I don't think you have read the Original Post, and you sure didn't read mine.

You might want to consider if you are in fact an example of what I described as "many people are falling for this and becoming increasingly intollerant of any criticism against the Government or questioning of it".

How your least favorite media personalities got into that?

Well only you know!

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by belial259

 

We are "shocked and appalled" as well. Make no mistake, this will not stand as long as there is ANYTHING we can do about it. So far the ADL has ignored our attempts at dealing with this the easy way.

I've called them and left a voice mail, if we don't hear back today we will take it to the next level.

Springer...

Well Springer, EVERYONE has an agenda unfortunately.

I reckon there is no need to take it to the next level, sometimes the best way to give the finger is not to give the satisfaction. Proof is in the pudding anyways, people are free to check it out, see if we are in fact a rabid bunch of inbreds hell bent on inciting the third coming.

My ultimate point is; ATS is what it is, these fools cannot not change that and there really is no point laboring over something that is self evident. The people at
Antiquated Dookie Launchpad are a sorry lot if this is what they spend time pursuing,
in this case inaction is the perfect action IMO.

Anyhow, whatever you guys decide I will back you up, thank you for everything.