Covert "Container Missile" Changes Warfare

originally posted by: Now_Then

originally posted by: sg1642
If it's that easy to do I'm sure AQ etc would have done it already and launched an attack.

Well that's missing the point somewhat, you are not trying to smuggle your missiles into anywhere, just have some missiles in some surprising places hiding in plain sight.

yeah that's a fair point actually. I mean what's the range on one of these? 200-300km? No need to cross a border with it. I think the main point in this system is to avoid the prying eyes of satellites etc.

A couple of questions here..out of curiosity concerning a weapons system like this...container or not???

What is the maintenance schedule of the average nuclear warhead...or put another way..what is it's shelf life.

This includes the detonating system/fusing system if you like...or I think sometimes it is also called the trigger??

As I understand it ..one of the most complex systems needing to be most reliable is the trigger..not the nuclear material per se..but the trigger.


How about the maintenance of the container itself?? Any of you ever opened one of these containers when it has been sitting around unopened for about six months??? Think about it???



How about the maintenance schedule of the cruise missile itself?? How often do these missiles have to be run up or self checked to check for problems. What is the shelf life of solid fuel???

The Guidance Systems?? How often do they need to be spun up to maintain accuracy...particularly if they are hybrid systems with terrain avoidance, terrain following...and inertial navigation systems?? Does a precision navigation system like this need to be temperature/enviornmentally controlled..to keep moisture/humidity out???

How many nations do you know of who have more money than they have brains?? Ability to maintain such an system???


Just something to think about...instead of fear mongering...and the ever continuing blame game so popular today and attempting to pass for intelligence and thinking.

Jerry!!!!! Jerry!!!!! Jerry!!!


Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

I think it's effectiveness has been blown way out of proportion simply because it's in a container and it's easier to hide. Has it actually been test fired against a moving target? Malaysia have bought some and like the above poster has said, is it easy to maintain or have they bought a weapon they won't have any use for?

I know this might seem like a stupid question given the fact it's a metal container but would the internal components alter its thermal signature in any way?

originally posted by: orangetom1999
A couple of questions here..out of curiosity concerning a weapons system like this...container or not???

What is the maintenance schedule of the average nuclear warhead...or put another way..what is it's shelf life.

Depends how much it relies on tritium boosting. Tritium has a half life of 13 years and decays in to helium. Too much decay from original nominal design conditions and the warhead efficiency & yield goes down substantially.

A light-weight high-performance design probably uses lots of tritium.

Something lower-tech? Could last for a long time. The high explosives can be degraded by radiation too.

Look at the lifecycle of submarine nuclear missile systems. They aren't opening them up for an overhaul every two weeks. I bet you know more about this one, but I'd generally guess the timescale is the 2-3 years era?

This includes the detonating system/fusing system if you like...or I think sometimes it is also called the trigger??

As I understand it ..one of the most complex systems needing to be most reliable is the trigger..not the nuclear material per se..but the trigger.

Well, I'd sure hope the "do NOT blow up until really ready system is pretty damn important".

How about the maintenance of the container itself?? Any of you ever opened one of these containers when it has been sitting around unopened for about six months??? Think about it???

Well, surely it would be sterilized, have a dessicant and a nitrogen-argon fill.

How about the maintenance schedule of the cruise missile itself?? How often do these missiles have to be run up or self checked to check for problems. What is the shelf life of solid fuel???

The Guidance Systems?? How often do they need to be spun up to maintain accuracy...particularly if they are hybrid systems with terrain avoidance, terrain following...and inertial navigation systems?? Does a precision navigation system like this need to be temperature/enviornmentally controlled..to keep moisture/humidity out???

How many nations do you know of who have more money than they have brains?? Ability to maintain such an system???

Iran has sufficient indigenous technology to satisfy all the above requirements. Not to the same quality & intensity of the West but they make their own guided missiles from scratch and that's not nothing. Saddam was on the verge of a bomb in 1990, but never made a guided missile (which is higher technology than Trinity).

originally posted by: sg1642
I know this might seem like a stupid question given the fact it's a metal container but would the internal components alter its thermal signature in any way?

It would have some degree of thermal and electromagnetic (possibly nuclear and chemical) signature, you can shield to a large extent or the whole thing maybe can stay in a permanent state of 'shut down' I have no idea, but the minute you boot this thing up it will have signatures all over the spectrum, the guidance systems alone would probably light up your location visible from satellites and any air superiority tech in the area floating flying or otherwise.

mbkennel,

Look at the lifecycle of submarine nuclear missile systems. They aren't opening them up for an overhaul every two weeks. I bet you know more about this one, but I'd generally guess the timescale is the 2-3 years era?

Unless a submarine missile ICBM type in a launch tube is opened for inspection or maintenance it is often in a nitrogen purge..to prevent moisture from forming in the tube. This helps to improve reliability and shelf life. I am sure that there are self checks or run ups on the guidance systems ...run by computer programming or computer testing.

When sailors have to go into the tubes..the nitrogen is purged out and replaced by breathable air....then sealed back up when the maintenance is done..and nitrogen put back in the tube.

Well, surely it would be sterilized, have a dessicant and a nitrogen-argon fill.

I was not referring to this internal container itself..but the doors on the container.


If you have ever tried to open a sealand container which has been closed up for six months or so...under salt water/weather conditions..it can be quite a chore or task. Very very stiff and bound up. Certain greases and lubricants can help weather these conditions but do most nations know or have the capabilities for this? Not ordinary axle grease but certain greases which can stand cold and or hot temperatures both.
You can have a power actuated system...such as air/pneumatics or Hydraulics...even remotely actuated.

And if one modified such a container to operate as a cruise missile launch device would the modifications be visible to the trained eye??? For one thing...you would want to have such an container on a ship placed on the top of the pile...not under all the other containers.

On a tractor trailer would be a different thing. Would the container need it's own self contained power supply/generator to power up such an device?? And would such an power supply leave visible evidence in or on a container ..as a tell tale trace of what it is?? How about external antennas??

Iran has sufficient indigenous technology to satisfy all the above requirements. Not to the same quality & intensity of the West but they make their own guided missiles from scratch and that's not nothing. Saddam was on the verge of a bomb in 1990, but never made a guided missile (which is higher technology than Trinity).

The essence of such an missile is the guidance/navigation system..not the missile itself. If you do not have an sufficient guidance system all you have is basically a Fourth of July Rocket.

This should be obvious by what Hamas is doing in launching thousands of missiles/rockets into Israel. They need a serious guidance system. A wet thumb will not suffice here.

This was also part of the problem with the Soviets attempting a soft landing on the Moon...the navigation system...precision accelerators to judge rocket thrust for a soft landing...as well as navigation/positioning. No telling now many satellites they slammed into the surface of the moon trying.

If the Russians have such an system today...I know from whence they got it. For I know they got their ICBM navigation systems from us...under State Department authority. MIRV navigation technology. Our own State Department authorized the Russians this technology in the 1960s.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Well it looks like James Bond has a theme for his next movie.
I bet the CIA has these, get a container into a country bury it with a food of dirt, nobody even knows it's there.
Israel better hope one of these things never makes it behind there lines.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Well it looks like James Bond has a theme for his next movie.
I bet the CIA has these, get a container into a country bury it with a food of dirt, nobody even knows it's there.
Israel better hope one of these things never makes it behind there lines.

You need to find out what Israel's Sampson Option is.


Orangetom