POLISH PLANE CRASH - Survivors Murdered! NEW Evidence!

reply to post by sremmos


I see them!
I wish I knew how to stablize the video
anybody want to try
I see what you are talking about
there are three figures walking toward the wreckage
good eye

reply to post by warequalsmurder


Yes...you got me there, good Sir.

My name is Rock Strongo and I work of the CIAMI5FSB, a subdivision of the Illuminati NWO cartello-bordello.
I thought I was going to keep it a secret forever, but with sharp, piercing minds such as yours, I guess there are fewer and fewer shadows to hide in these days.

On a serious note, however;

Gun shots:
Govenment officials have body guards.
Body guards have guns.
Guns have ammo.
Ammo in fire tends to explode.

Me, working myslef up over issues like these:
I like ATS.
I hate BS.
I don't like it when people name their threads with "evidence" and other claims of having facts that doesn't exist.
I really enjoy a good conspiracy when people put some effort into it.
I really hate when people do half-assed jobs and thereby provide ATS with nothing of value.
I get angry and afraid when I see how easily people swallow vague claims with hook line and sinker because it reminds me of how governments around the world do the same thing (like the "war on terror").
I hate it when there are resons so blatantly given to those who ridicule the conspiracy/truth seeker communities. It's threads like this that makes us look like idiots.

Those are my answers to your questions.

reply to post by Raud


Thank you for the info ... will read

reply to post by Raud


A star for the laugh you gave me.

I as well believe the gun shots might be the securities ammo going off due to the fire. I think most of the sounds are from chambers rounds in fact. This would give the sound of an exact gun fire due to the expulsion of the round through the barrel because of the round firing due to the fire. Other “shots” might just be extra ammo. But truth is we have no idea how heavily or lightly armed those on the plane were.

I would wager though that they were armed with at least one hand gun each with there being at least 4-6 guards. Personally though I think they were traveling with two or three weapons per guard.

Besides if everything is as the conspiracy goes it makes no sense for the original video to get out when the guy could have been killed and the video never seen to begin with. At the very most there might be foul play but that being used get fingers pointing at Russia when they are innocent.


Raist

I'm pretty much open to any theory.
Is it possible that this is just a simple plane crash?
Absolutely.
Is it a likely scenario?
Based on the information that is available out there I would say most definitely not. There was a lot of beneficial reasons for the Polish elite to be taken out by the "powers that be"...the motive is quite clearly explained at the end of the video.
Just my thoughts....

Ok, I finally had another chance to review some other stablilized versions of the video on YouTube and I can clearly see two survivors from the crash. They are there, waving thier hand in the air trying to signal someone for help. Now, I cannot for sure say this was an inside job or conspiracy here, but what I do know is that there were people alive still after the crash.

So where are the survivors now? It has been said that all died on impact yet you clearly see two and probably more if you had better video editing software.

Deep down I think that this is one of those rare videos that was never supposed to have existed or seen the light of day.

So it comes down to this, it is clearly seen that people survived!


[edit on 25-4-2010 by Jdawg9909]

reply to post by Jdawg9909


I saw two stabilised version (one made by me) and in none of those I saw any people, I only saw the results of a very bad video after being stabilised; we get stability but we don't get any compensation for the data that was lost or for the distortion created by the fast shaking camera.

Also, as human beings see much better than cameras, that would mean that the guy that made the video ignored the hypothetical survivors, something which I doubt.

Originally posted by discl0sur3
Is it possible that this is just a simple plane crash?
Absolutely.
Is it a likely scenario?
Based on the information that is available out there I would say most definitely not. There was a lot of beneficial reasons for the Polish elite to be taken out by the "powers that be"...the motive is quite clearly explained at the end of the video.

The fact that there was a lot of beneficial reasons doesn't mean this was not an accident, whenever something like that happens there are always some people that could gain something from that, but it doesn't mean that they did something for it to happen.

So, what information "available out there" shows that this was not an accident?

ARMAP

See the above post I made lastly. There is now the video there.

You cannot deny that you see two people there waving for assistance, if you cannot see them, then it would only be unpurpose that you are not.

Like I said earlier this may have just been a simple accident or perhaps not, but if there were survivors and they were not aided, then of course this stinks to high heaven.



[edit on 25-4-2010 by Jdawg9909]

This sounds awful, and I haven't plucked up the courage to watch this video yet.

No murders around the world at all. Anyone got any ideas how this can be enforced? (Obviously one hopes it's already running like this now) and I'm sure that the rest of the world should follow UK's example already. Then it's a much better place to live in (the planet Earth)!

reply to post by Raud



Your actions do speak volumes for your motives. I don't believe that you've been discovered as you sarcastically claim, but that you have only exposed yourself here.

As I said, you do seem to be putting way too much energy into this thread with your opposing viewpoint to the OP. It is one thing to say your piece and move on. But to attempt to repudiate everything that is posted here is quite another story. And many of your repudiations have been weak at best.


This Jane Burgermeister lady who you attempt to marginalize was instrumental in bringing attention to potential troubles with the Flu vaccines in her country of residence (Austria) as well as abroad. People listen to what she has to say regardless of your opinion that she's nothing more than a successful blogger as a result. But what makes a big difference here is most either accept what she has to say or we reject it just like we do other whistle blowers here. To try all of these Ad Hominem attacks against her such as "I think that she sucked at her job" (which is an admission on your part that she was a reporter after all and not just a successful blogger) and "She seems a little crazy" only leads more credence to what would appear to be ulterior motives on your behalf.

Then to accuse others of only being here to promote her blog only throws more logs upon the fire.

Whether you like it or not many of us ATS members have chosen to pay much more attention to alternative news sources regardless of your displayed disdain for them. Official news sources have been lying to us for many years and have been caught doing just that. When a member here suggests that they do pay attention to her or others in the alternative media and have you reply with "Wait... Are you for real?" accompanied by two emoticons only shows your smug disrespect for many members here and it leads more credence to my belief that you are biased in the extreme to the point of suspicious bias.

Also, to try and shoot down members sources here because you are of the belief that Muslim fundamentalists frequent those sights is another piece of evidence to your focused bias. Shall we even say racism? You talk as if Muslim Fundamentalists is a word that you can use to trump a source (because they've been known to post their in your opinion) just as people who scream AntiSemite use in order to try and crush criticism of Israel policies.

With your past actions in this thread alone I think many of my suspicions about your motives are confirmed. It is just a shame that the OP has had his/her attempt to bring some food for thought on this topic sabotaged my members like yourself who are putting extremely suspicious amounts of insulting rebuttals that only expose you once again.

I and other members believe that foul play is a potentiality in this case. Contrary to your aims to debunk this topic, the manner in which you've chosen to go about it has put more suspicion upon why you are really on this thread rather than dousing the flames of suspicions as you have attempted to do.

Oh, and against your best wishes I'm sure, the video of the gun shots at the crash site is picking up lots of momentum across the internet now. You might just be needed on a lot of other forums to shout your "Nothing wrong here please move on" mantra on them as well.

Originally posted by Jdawg9909
See the above post I made lastly. There is now the video there.

You cannot deny that you see two people there waving for assistance, if you cannot see them, then it would only be unpurpose that you are not.

I already saw that video, and I can say that I don't see any people waving. What I see is two brighter areas with some branches in front of them, and I suppose the movement of the camera makes some people think that what they see is something on those brighter areas moving, when in fact what we see is the apparent movement of the branches caused by the movement of the camera.

Like I said earlier this may have just been a simple accident or perhaps not, but if there were survivors and they were not aided, then of course this stinks to high heaven.

Sure, but why would the guy with the camera move away without doing a thing to help someone waving his/her arms in the site of an accident? Did he go there just to film this to post on YouTube and he wasn't interested in the victims of the accident? Or was he part of the conspiracy and that's why he didn't help?

reply to post by Raist


And a star for you who just gave me a good laugh too!

I only saw two small pieces of wreckage on fire. Most of the plane debris was doing nothing but just sitting there.

You mean to tell us that his bodyguards were resting on those two small pieces of wreckage? Talk about your cosmic lattice of coincidence.

And their unspent pistol ammunition just happened to go off at those particular seconds of time! Ha! another amazing lattice of coincidence!

The mental calisthenics required to believe the official line defy imagination once again.

reply to post by warequalsmurder


Not once have I seen an answer to the question of why the guy taking the video was allowed to leave, and get the video online of all things.

The conspiracy here with Russia is the one that people are making themselves. That is not to say that someone could not be making it look bad for the Russians for another political reason. But I saw plenty of smoke in the video. Smoke, last time I checked, indicated smoldering or burning debris. You do realize this was a plane wreck no? Planes hold fuel right? You cannot tell me that plane did not have plenty of fuel left. That is a lot of stuff to burn, not to mention that fuel tends to splash around seeing as it is liquid and all. Fuel burns, if it lands on a weapon it will still burn.

When the bodies get examined we will see. If there is fire damage greater than what could take place in a plane crash it will show. As is a plane crash cannot burn a body bad enough to hide evidence of a gunshot wound.

Another question though why shoot them when they could let the injured just lay there and die? I would wager that most of their wounds would be pretty critical after all it takes some speed to keep a plane in the air even if it is landing. That bad of a crash is going to do some serious damage to a person.

The whole Russia killed everyone is pushing it. I mean really step back, take the tin foil hat off and look at things critically for a moment. Do you not see all of the “evidence” pointing at them? Really they would have to either be very brave or outright stupid to do all of this and let the world see it. Even the people behind real conspiracies don’t just through the bone to the world like is being played out here.

It is funny though how you keep after the other poster about being someone trying to cover up just because they have an opposing view. I have never seen so much crying (not just you but others as well) on ATS about people actually debating things as I have in the past year here. This is a large board you will find those with view opposite of yours you debate them, ignore them, or see their point. What would be the use of a place like ATS if everyone agreed with you all of the time?

This whole “Russia did this” thing surprises me with the amount of people jumping on board with it without asking the serious questions that they used to ask. Either ATS is losing a good number of posters who think logically and critically or people are becoming more gullible. If Russia did this there are so many ways to do it from start to finish that would have been a lot easier and would have drawn a lot less attention. Those that are in charge are a bit smarter than that seeing as how they have warped the minds of many for years now. Honestly I think this is nothing but a ploy in a way to pull us from something they are working on that is far more important.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
When the bodies get examined we will see. If there is fire damage greater than what could take place in a plane crash it will show. As is a plane crash cannot burn a body bad enough to hide evidence of a gunshot wound.

All bodies have been returned to Poland, according to this page.

Another question though why shoot them when they could let the injured just lay there and die?

If they had people on the ground to kill any possible survivor then I think that:
1 - They should arrive sooner than other people, seeing they were the only people that knew where the aeroplane should crash.
2 - They could kill the survivors just by breaking their necks or some other way that would look natural in a crash victim.

Shooting them doesn't make sense to me, if they wanted to kill them.

reply to post by ArMaP


Exactly my point. Why go through unnecessary measures for no reason. The whole Russia was shooting them makes no sense. There are so many points of critical thinking being missed that it makes ones head spin. Look at how easy it could have been compared to the crappy drawn out way they conspiracy has it going.


Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by warequalsmurder

 

I mean really step back, take the tin foil hat off and look at things critically for a moment.

I was all set to refute your shallow theories about smoke and scattered fuel and how you were once again reaching a little too far for a mundane answer to this damning evidence until you wrote the above line.

That line speaks volumes for your disrespect to those who would open their eyes to alternative scenarios. Which tells me a lot about why you are starring those who support the official version of events so ardently despite the evidence that is emerging to the contrary.

At this point there is no arguing with you. You come to this forum with a nasty contempt that is full of negative presumptions that do you or me no service to further entertain.

Good day to you.





[edit on 25-4-2010 by warequalsmurder]

Despite the lies surrounding this event and the people who recorded the immediate aftermath I think it is still safe to say it was NOT an accident. Of course everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, it is just too bad that its a given that over half of our planet can be taken for fools. This is all history repeating itself in a slightly different way.

reply to post by warequalsmurder


You might want to check up on my posting history before you start assuming (you know what happens when you do that).

I see nothing I said matching the "offical" story.

But the Russians did it theory is so full of holes it would be stupid to jump on the bandwagon they did it.

I did not see anybody waving in those two videos of the Polish
reporter Wisniewski and the Ukrainian Mendierej.

Had they seen a wounded person, they would have continued
to focus on him while going closer and eventually tried to help,
laying the camera aside for a while. They would have voiced
in the video that they are seeing a victim.

We did not see any seats and cabin interior around those few
pieces of debris ( a wing, a tail ? etc.).

Those two reporters were stopped/arrested to go any further
by the security forces waiting for the plane to land.

The fuselage was a few hundred meters further in the woods,
where dozens of ambulance helpers and fire-fighters were
doing their jobs. Those people were seen on Wisniewski`s
video, however, not the fuselage.

Although Wisniewski claimed that he saw the plane land and
crash from his hotel window at the airport and immediately
ran the 400m (?) into the woods, yet a fire-fighter could be
seen hosing the debris on his 3 minutes footage. So, another
one lying (drunk and oversleeping the accident ?) or the
fire-fighters just faster ?

To me the whole thing looks like a normal accident.