Teapartiers: What an outrage!

Originally posted by nickoli
An illegal alien does not have any rights under the constitution,the tea party people are against illegal immigration with an emphasis on the illegal part.

No, but hispanic CITIZENS do and now they will be forced to prove who they are on any cop's whim. I hate the nazi germany comparisons that come with any and every argument about government but making it legal to stop AMERICANS and make them show you "their papers" just because someone else somewhere else might be doing something illegal is hardly something that comes to mind when I think of liberty.

reply to post by skunknuts

I thought tea-party patriots were highly mobilized and engaged citizens that care about liberty and the constitution above all else.

I am sorry my good friend, I am not buying your protestations of disbelief and it appears as if you are merely using Arizona's Bill to do your own political grandstanding, and that grandstanding is not in support of natural rights for all, but instead a screed designed, (poorly designed), to make the Tea Party look bad.

If you are genuinely outraged by the Arizona Bill then speak to it, and fight as hard as you can for the natural rights of all people. The Tea Party movement had nothing to do with this Bill, and I have read enough of your intelligent posts to feel confident that you know better.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by skunknuts

 

I thought tea-party patriots were highly mobilized and engaged citizens that care about liberty and the constitution above all else.

I am sorry my good friend, I am not buying your protestations of disbelief and it appears as if you are merely using Arizona's Bill to do your own political grandstanding, and that grandstanding is not in support of natural rights for all, but instead a screed designed, (poorly designed), to make the Tea Party look bad.

If you are genuinely outraged by the Arizona Bill then speak to it, and fight as hard as you can for the natural rights of all people. The Tea Party movement had nothing to do with this Bill, and I have read enough of your intelligent posts to feel confident that you know better.

Thank you for your compliments.

I'm not saying tea-party patriots are RESPONSIBLE for this bill. I'm saying that they need to be informed of this bill so they can direct their influence and grassroots energy towards stopping it. I only assume they would care deeply about this issue, as they purport to value liberty and the constitution above all else (especially party politics)....

Best,
Skunknuts

[edit on 4/20/2010 by skunknuts]

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I never really understood the issue with showing ID when asked. I guess after my 28 years in the military and showing my ID card a million times I do not see it as a big deal.

Not all of us are or were in the military. Some of us are just people that were born here and feel we should have the right to walk to the store without having to carry a SS card, BC, and photo ID. Why should I have to for one and why wouldn't the anit-big government tea party defend my right to do so? I am an American. I should have the right to not have to carry proof of citizenship on me at all times.

So how do I know you are American?

How do I know you are an American with any basis on which to question me? See how that kind of cancels itself out?

How do I know that your children should be in our schools,

Why would you not check out the school you send your children to and make sure it is a safe place conducive to education instead of worrying how the other kids got there? If it is a good school, your child will learn and be safe.

or how do I hire you and know you are legally able to work in this country?

You can actually check to see if anyone you hire is legally allowed to WORK in the United States. You do not have to be a citizen to WORK in the United States, either. You just need to be legal and anyone that works in the US has to prove that. If you do not take the time to check out whether or not the person you hire to do something is legally allowed to do the job, then you are lazy. Asking cops to stop everyone with a tan and ask them for proof so that you do not have to check anything out for yourself is a waste of my tax dollars and police time.

It seems everything is in place to protect the identity of illegals or make it very easy for them to live and work without getting caught.

The only thing I have seen protecting illegals working here has been the BIG business that recruit them, hire them, house them, and lobby for your government to look the other way.

A cop stopping some spanish looking person to ask for ID only to maybe find some and maybe not instead of actually fighting the huge amounts of money shelled out by huge companies to keep illegals here makes sense to you?

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm appalled that they might actually demand to see an Americans 'papers' as it were to prove they're truly American and I don't see this going any other direction.

geez, u act like this is the gestapo or something.

Showing one's Driver's License or Social Security Card
or an approved State ID card would work to prove citizenship.
Plus, u have to do this very same thing in a traffic
stop anyway.

It doesn't have to be a birth certificate or a passport.
I think ur over-reacting a tad. A birth certificate or passport
would only be needed if they cannot provide any of the
other documents.

Driver's Licenses and Social Security cards can be forged and bought easily enough, especially in "border" states and large cities. Pay enough and even an expert would have a hard time telling the fake for the genuine.


Besides, not everyone drives, and you don't need a license to walk. Furthermore, with ID theft as rampant as it is (see the note above about fake documents) you'd be a total fool to carry your social security card with you all the time. Easily lost, easily stolen.


Now if I were to spend a few days in the sun, I think that, with the right clothes, I might just be able to pass as "possibly illegal". I know better than to violate my Miranda rights when stopped by the authorities ( though, for some reason that doesn't happen all too often, hhhmmm!) and so I do not speak when questioned; my attorney is on speed-dial.

In the America I grew up in "Your papers please!" was a jab a those backward, "commie" states; no true American would ever tolerate such a demand by any authority, unless he had actually, or thought that he might have, committed a crime.


My family has been in this country for more than 300 years, and I would take very hot offense if, merely because I appeared to be an "illegal" immigrant, any LEO asked to see MY PAPERS!



I'd just as likely SHOW HIM MY HAIRY WHITE A$$ !!!

I think they should get nets and train thousands of dogs and maybe they should put a micro chip in peoples skin so they can tell if they are real Americans or not . They can make a new squad of agents who ask for ID everywhere these people go,emergency rooms, sewers, by the salvation army collectors (while they are getting ready to steel the coin pot), the large garbage dumpsters by 7/11s, home depots. This could create innovation in the market place... Maybe even a tone chart so that the squad can easily identify them.

This has nothing to do with liberties or government oppressions because I am white as a lily, so I will be fine.

Originally posted by Bhadhidar

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm appalled that they might actually demand to see an Americans 'papers' as it were to prove they're truly American and I don't see this going any other direction.

geez, u act like this is the gestapo or something.

Showing one's Driver's License or Social Security Card
or an approved State ID card would work to prove citizenship.
Plus, u have to do this very same thing in a traffic
stop anyway.

It doesn't have to be a birth certificate or a passport.
I think ur over-reacting a tad. A birth certificate or passport
would only be needed if they cannot provide any of the
other documents.

Driver's Licenses and Social Security cards can be forged and bought easily enough, especially in "border" states and large cities. Pay enough and even an expert would have a hard time telling the fake for the genuine.


Besides, not everyone drives, and you don't need a license to walk. Furthermore, with ID theft as rampant as it is (see the note above about fake documents) you'd be a total fool to carry your social security card with you all the time. Easily lost, easily stolen.


Now if I were to spend a few days in the sun, I think that, with the right clothes, I might just be able to pass as "possibly illegal". I know better than to violate my Miranda rights when stopped by the authorities ( though, for some reason that doesn't happen all too often, hhhmmm!) and so I do not speak when questioned; my attorney is on speed-dial.

In the America I grew up in "Your papers please!" was a jab a those backward, "commie" states; no true American would ever tolerate such a demand by any authority, unless he had actually, or thought that he might have, committed a crime.


My family has been in this country for more than 300 years, and I would take very hot offense if, merely because I appeared to be an "illegal" immigrant, any LEO asked to see MY PAPERS!



I'd just as likely SHOW HIM MY HAIRY WHITE A$$ !!!

What a great post!

This issue should transcend party lines. It gets to the heart of what is SUPPOSED to define America.

Best,
Skunknuts

Originally posted by Janky Red
This has nothing to do with liberties or government oppressions because I am white as a lily, so I will be fine.

I keep forgetting that only United States citizens are white. Thank goodness there are no other countries on this planet with white or white looking people. That sure saves a lot of trouble.

Originally posted by Janky Red
I think they should get nets and train thousands of dogs and maybe they should put a micro chip in peoples skin so they can tell if they are real Americans or not . They can make a new squad of agents who ask for ID everywhere these people go,emergency rooms, sewers, by the salvation army collectors (while they are getting ready to steel the coin pot), the large garbage dumpsters by 7/11s, home depots. This could create innovation in the market place... Maybe even a tone chart so that the squad can easily identify them.

This has nothing to do with liberties or government oppressions because I am white as a lily, so I will be fine.

LOL! Like the other guy said, 'BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY!'

This is to what we can look forward if the authoritarian Palin tea-baggers have their way. The Ron Paul libertarian tea-partiers need to stop them in their tracks (by all means necessary ).

Best,
Skunknuts

[edit on 4/20/2010 by skunknuts]

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
My family has been in this country for more than 300 years, and I would take very hot offense if, merely because I appeared to be an "illegal" immigrant, any LEO asked to see MY PAPERS!



I'd just as likely SHOW HIM MY HAIRY WHITE A$$ !!!

Pulled this from another thread, seemed to apply here.

It brings to mind our treasured family story about my Hillbilly mother and her sisters being snatched by INS and detained briefly at the border while on a bus tour of San Diego. Apparently, Melungeons appear illegal.

Guess Mom and family better keep out of Arizona.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm appalled that they might actually demand to see an Americans 'papers' as it were to prove they're truly American and I don't see this going any other direction.

geez, u act like this is the gestapo or something.

Showing one's Driver's License or Social Security Card
or an approved State ID card would work to prove citizenship.
Plus, u have to do this very same thing in a traffic
stop anyway.

It doesn't have to be a birth certificate or a passport.
I think ur over-reacting a tad. A birth certificate or passport
would only be needed if they cannot provide any of the
other documents.

Maybe I am having trouble finding it or NY state does not care. Where on your driver's liscence does it confirm your citizenship?

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by Janky Red
This has nothing to do with liberties or government oppressions because I am white as a lily, so I will be fine.

I keep forgetting that only United States citizens are white. Thank goodness there are no other countries on this planet with white or white looking people. That sure saves a lot of trouble.

No, what about Black people? They will be fine, unless they are too light.

Asians don't usually stand around the home depot

Arabicians like to wear those cloth helmuts

Indians have dots

and the other Indians have feathers, wear leathers and are accompanied by birds of prey on the shoulder or circling about in the heavens.

Originally posted by Janky Red
No, what about Black people? They will be fine, unless they are too light.

Asians don't usually stand around the home depot

Arabicians like to wear those cloth helmuts

Indians have dots

and the other Indians have feathers, wear leathers and are accompanied by birds of prey on the shoulder or circling about in the heavens.

I am sorry but that post is so full of ignorance that I can only hope that you are being sarcastic and you know how bad and wrong it all is.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by Janky Red
This has nothing to do with liberties or government oppressions because I am white as a lily, so I will be fine.

I keep forgetting that only United States citizens are white. Thank goodness there are no other countries on this planet with white or white looking people. That sure saves a lot of trouble.

No, what about Black people? They will be fine, unless they are too light.

Asians don't usually stand around the home depot

Arabicians like to wear those cloth helmuts

Indians have dots

and the other Indians have feathers, wear leathers and are accompanied by birds of prey on the shoulder or circling about in the heavens.

Hey, I have an idea: I bet we could use yellow armbands to help differentiate the who-is from the who-is-maybe from the who-is-not-probably from the who-is-not-likely. Pure genius.

Best,
Skunknuts

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by Janky Red
No, what about Black people? They will be fine, unless they are too light.

Asians don't usually stand around the home depot

Arabicians like to wear those cloth helmuts

Indians have dots

and the other Indians have feathers, wear leathers and are accompanied by birds of prey on the shoulder or circling about in the heavens.

I am sorry but that post is so full of ignorance that I can only hope that you are being sarcastic and you know how bad and wrong it all is.

Yeah, he's totally being sarcastic.....

Best,
Skunknuts

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm appalled that they might actually demand to see an Americans 'papers' as it were to prove they're truly American and I don't see this going any other direction.

geez, u act like this is the gestapo or something.

Showing one's Driver's License or Social Security Card
or an approved State ID card would work to prove citizenship.
Plus, u have to do this very same thing in a traffic
stop anyway.

It doesn't have to be a birth certificate or a passport.
I think ur over-reacting a tad. A birth certificate or passport
would only be needed if they cannot provide any of the
other documents.

Maybe I am having trouble finding it or NY state does not care. Where on your driver's liscence does it confirm your citizenship?

Thats what micro chips and tattoos can be for

Now when I say tattoo it can be more like a small barcode in a visible place -

IF that is too hard to do just yet, make a walking license

Otherwise there may be a rise of skin lightening procedures, like the Michael Jackson clinic. I actually think they should go with skin darkening myself, but what evs.

reply to post by Afterall


It is not unconstitutional for a law enforcement official to ask someone for their id in the course of an investigation. This law says that if the basic id requirements are not met said person may be detained untill proper id can be provided.This is a non issue to me, I always carry my id and I do not find offence in being asked to provide it should the situation warrent it.

I know alot about illegal immigrants and the problems they create and I applaud this law, in fact I may contact my representative and recommend that we follow Arizonas lead on this matter.

How else is an officer of the law to know who they are dealing with without asking for id? There will always be law and law enforcers in society get used to it or move out in the jungle somewhere.

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by Janky Red
No, what about Black people? They will be fine, unless they are too light.

Asians don't usually stand around the home depot

Arabicians like to wear those cloth helmuts

Indians have dots

and the other Indians have feathers, wear leathers and are accompanied by birds of prey on the shoulder or circling about in the heavens.

I am sorry but that post is so full of ignorance that I can only hope that you are being sarcastic and you know how bad and wrong it all is.

Seriously, this cat is all over the board saying the most outlandish things all the time trying to get people to ?fight with him? or something, I dont know. Every time I see him, racially charged backwards posts follow. He's a waste of a good member. Never contributes, just tries to make everyone mad.

reply to post by Jenna


oh nevermind

2nd line

please delete


[edit on 20-4-2010 by boondock-saint]

Originally posted by Jenna

There's a difference between showing an ID to get a job or enroll your kids in school, and being forced to prove citizenship because you look like you might be here illegally. There are plenty of people who were born here and are of hispanic decent that will end up being forced to prove they were all because of their facial features and what skin tone they have. That's just not right no matter how you look at it. The illegal immigrant situation does need to be handled, no doubt about it. But this isn't the way to do it.

But as it stands right now across America you do not need to show proof of citizenship to put your kids in school, employers cannot ask you if you are legal and SS cards are cardboard print, if you go to a hospital they can’t question you about these things either. So you can live, use our programs, work and never get caught.

You are also talking about two different events. I don’t think this approves racial profiling as part of it. Though I do agree that human nature will kick in and profiling will happen (like it does in everything else) especially in this case where over 90 percent of the illegals there are of one ethnic group.