fast ufos in the sky over Niagra falls Canada April 13th, 2010

Untill SOMEONE here posts a home video tracing a bats movement I am not convinced of it being of terrestrial origin.

I don't ask much, just a little bit of evidence...

Please, I want to be shown the 'bats' in a replicar video

If this was shot april of this year I have a hard time believing it's bats. I live about 15 miles from the border where this video was shot and in my opinion it's too cold here for bats yet. We had a couple of days in the high 60's but nighttime lows in the 30's still. I have yet to see a bat out this year. But I'm no expert on bats so I could be wrong.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Much love to all...

I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling the love here, bro. What exactly is your point? The consensus among the debunkers is that the person who made this video hasn't provided enough information to make a definitive identification. Naturally, birds and bats are leading hypotheses, but I've personally bumped "ghostly Indian braves" up in my personal handicapping. I take it you have a theory so solid you feel emboldened to do a mocking victory dance?

Originally posted by skeptic_al
reply to post by blaws572

 

Did you actually watch this ?

It's Birds !!!, without question

Unless Aliens are building UFO's with movable flapping wings, there
birds.

And you did challenge debunkers to debunk this bunk, so there
you have it.

um...exactly how much of the clip did you watch? Just asking

This are winged animals -- birds or bats -- hunting insects in the casino lights. My guess is starlings, which fly like this and do a lot of eating at night. You can see the wings pumping especially during the sustained climbs.

This happens same time nightly lately? Well, it is spring and the birds or bats hunt the same time every night.

Same place? Uhmmm, because the bugs go to the illumination from the casino lights, which are sky painting from a fixed location.

They appear illuminated? Its the residual light from the casino lights and/or the ambient lights of the area.

They change direction suddenly and seemingly randomly? They are birds catching bugs. Even if they were aliens, what would be the logical purpose of random and chaotic direction changes? That would not represent any sort of intelligent flight path were it a craft.

This sort of thing should never make it to the home page of ATS.

reply to post by pajoly


Yes, your logic is great, PLEASE show me accurate footage tracing a bird or bat.

I want this to be debunked but I have never seen any footage like it.

PLEASE film a bat or small bird and SHOW ME the similarity.

If your logic is correct then it shouldn't be very dificult?

Ok, I've posted twice in this thread now and both times I've been derided for my opinion.

A quick disclaimer: I support the extra-terrestrial hypothesis

Having watched the video for the 5th time now, I am prepared to back off from my original "bat" hypothesis somewhat. But only far enough to include other possibilities such as night fowl, insects, and floating debris of some kind.

I remain adamant that this is NOT any kind of "craft", whether alien, human, UAV, remote control RC toy UFO, or anything at all like that. I'd maybe believe a kite, but I'm leaning towards an ANIMAL explanation.

This thing moves around like it is being buffeted in the wind. At 1:10, when it stops and starts dancing around, the guy who annotated the video seems to think this is good evidence of something unusual. He even shows it twice, just to make sure you saw it.

But NOTHING about these "sudden maneuvers" strike me in the least bit as intelligent or indicative of a large space-faring vehicle. Why all the stops and starts, and half starts, and little turns, and loop-dee-loos? WHY would an alien pilot make these kinds of maneuvers?

It is moving around as though attempting to maintain a stationary position but unable to do so because of the wind. Is the alien space ship made of paper maché?

Or maybe it really is 10 kilometers up and the size of a navy battleship. So in that case it must be take your alien kids to work day, because whoever is flying that thing is a friggin maniac.

I hope the grays have gravol on their saucers, because after a ride like that they're certainly going to need it.


Again: Neat video, but it's NOT a flying saucer. And I don't think it's "unidentifiable" either. Bird or bat or insect or floating whatever in the breeze. It's low to the ground, and moving in the wind - not "way up in the atmosphere". Please...

Originally posted by pajoly
This are winged animals -- birds or bats -- hunting insects in the casino lights. My guess is starlings, which fly like this and do a lot of eating at night. You can see the wings pumping especially during the sustained climbs.

This happens same time nightly lately? Well, it is spring and the birds or bats hunt the same time every night.

Same place? Uhmmm, because the bugs go to the illumination from the casino lights, which are sky painting from a fixed location.

They appear illuminated? Its the residual light from the casino lights and/or the ambient lights of the area.

They change direction suddenly and seemingly randomly? They are birds catching bugs. Even if they were aliens, what would be the logical purpose of random and chaotic direction changes? That would not represent any sort of intelligent flight path were it a craft.

This sort of thing should never make it to the home page of ATS.

Agreed. Star for you.

This patently is not bats. Bats never stop and hover and then move a few bits one way then go the other way and then accelerate fast and stop and hover a bit... I have watched bats a lot and they never stop moving at all because they cannot stop with out landing.
What ever is on this video footage is most likely not any animal or bird either since the camera focus if it was focused on birds would not see stars as clear.
It seems to be moving so randomly that what it reminds me of is what a human would do if given the chance to fly a saucer and was "testing it out"

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


It would involve acquiring the exact same equipment, procuring a selection of birds and bats and releasing them in the same location under the same circumstances. For what it's worth, I've conceded that these remain "officially unidentified," albeit likely natural, ie; terrestrial in origin. Before you jump to the conclusion they are extraterrestrials, you must definitively disprove the "ghostly Indian brave" hypothesis.

Originally posted by pajoly
Even if they were aliens, what would be the logical purpose of random and chaotic direction changes? That would not represent any sort of intelligent flight path were it a craft.

While I do not exclude the possibility of winged animals as an explanation for these UFOs, do keep in mind that "random chaotic direction changes" are not at all uncommon to UFO sightings. Many radar-visual cases involve abrupt changes in direction and speeds for instance.

Originally posted by DJW001
Before you jump to the conclusion they are extraterrestrials, you must definitively disprove the "ghostly Indian brave" hypothesis.

I think parsimony makes mincemeat out of the "ghostly indian brave hypothesis" if those were the only two remaining contenders.

That youtube user has plenty other videos of sightings in that area. Some really good stuff some shouldn't miss. Before people claim they are just birds, check his other videos. This one in particular is very interesting:

www.youtube.com...


[edit on 18/4/2010 by nightrun]

I am still waiting for the footage of a bird/bat/insect to debunk this...

tick tock...

Untill then the debunking here is moot.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


Parsimony? What does parsimony have to do with it? I can post hundreds of links to stories about "ghostly Indian braves." If you need footage of insectovores feeding at night, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to provide verified footage of ET craft that cannot also be explained by the "ghostly Indian braves" hypothesis.

In my opinion the "UFO" appears to be high up in the atmosphere and is
a living entity. Something that far away is too large to be a bird, bat, etc..
Since we're still discovering new life forms every year beneath the ocean,
why couldn't there be still undiscovered life entities that fly high up in
the atmosphere like what this video seems to depict? After all, several
of these have been filmed by past space shuttle crews in outer space
itself. Who's to say that in this vast universe, life forms must have air
in order to be alive? -cwm

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


In case you haven't noticed, this is a twenty first century "moot court." The prosecution surrenders the floor.

Originally posted by pajoly
This are winged animals -- birds or bats -- hunting insects in the casino lights. My guess is starlings, which fly like this and do a lot of eating at night. You can see the wings pumping especially during the sustained climbs.

This happens same time nightly lately? Well, it is spring and the birds or bats hunt the same time every night.

Same place? Uhmmm, because the bugs go to the illumination from the casino lights, which are sky painting from a fixed location.

They appear illuminated? Its the residual light from the casino lights and/or the ambient lights of the area.

They change direction suddenly and seemingly randomly? They are birds catching bugs. Even if they were aliens, what would be the logical purpose of random and chaotic direction changes? That would not represent any sort of intelligent flight path were it a craft.

This sort of thing should never make it to the home page of ATS.

Some here claim there is no reference point to determine speed of the objects. This is not necessarily true. They use distractive reasoning and red herrings to debunk such as lens angles, youtube compressions, pixels..yada yada. But, I don't need to be a scientist, mathematical whiz nor a photographer to see there is a reference point for speed. The stars.

All that other mumble jumble is to detract away from the fact that these objects are being followed by the camera with very very very small camera movements. I'm sure there would be a mathematical formula used to come out with an educated guess as to the height and speed based on the movement speed of the camera.

This is how I know the agenda driven UFO skeptics blow their cover. Instead of showing us their ability to calculate distance, speed, satellite routes, or any other method they choose while debunking LEGIT debunk-able material, here they say bats. BATS people.

The same people who tirelessly scour the web on chemistry, astronomy, mathematics, NASA transcripts etc, to debunk successfully.


The irony is rich!

BTW, bats is not Occam's Razor

i just dont get how if they move so fast and turn so fast, how did the camera keep up so well? sometimes it almost seemed the camera turned before the object in question...

have fun

It's very cute that the skeptics here are now experts on the flight patterns of bats!

Talk about batty!