fast ufos in the sky over Niagra falls Canada April 13th, 2010

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
Jclmavg.....

Hello from one of "the cynics".

Heh, I don't consider you a cynic my friend.

What do you think it is.....aliens?

My preliminary conclusion is contained in the last sentence of my previous post. My conclusion is that no conclusion is possible at this point.

Originally posted by The Cusp
The notion that the objects in that video are bats, birds, mosquitoes or kites is ridiculous. I defy anyone to recreate that video using any of the aforementioned scapegoats.

Joshua P Warren mentioned on his latest Coast appearance that his LEMUR Labs was offering free professional image analysis this month. Would be interesting to hear what his professionals make of it instead of the bat brains around here.

And why is it ridiculous? Please explain.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by cripmeister]

Originally posted by Drexon
First off, this was shot in the middle of winter -15 (I think it was) celcius, so it can't be a bat.

I think he said that he has seen this in the middle of winter, but this specific video was shot on April 13.

But I could be wrong.

The size isn't detectable, of course. The point is the speed and acceleration.

That's my point, if the size isn't detectable, how can we know the speed, if we don't know the distance?

We can only know the angular speed, but that's not enough.

Originally posted by DJW001
The video maker intentionally did not supply crucial information.

All the more reason so ask him this information. I see no particular evidence that he intentionally left out such information, did I miss something?

[edit on 18-4-2010 by jclmavg]

here's a question, would you be able to follow a bat with your camera at a close enough distance that the bat would move like that? Also, can a bat stop in midair nearly instantly?

Also, why are the "bats" dots when the "birds" are clearly visible? How high to bats fly while "hunting"?

I mean it wouldn't seem like they'd go very high, definitely not higher than the birds he was filming in high quality

[edit on 18-4-2010 by sremmos]

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Drexon
First off, this was shot in the middle of winter -15 (I think it was) celcius, so it can't be a bat.

I think he said that he has seen this in the middle of winter, but this specific video was shot on April 13.

But I could be wrong.

The size isn't detectable, of course. The point is the speed and acceleration.

That's my point, if the size isn't detectable, how can we know the speed, if we don't know the distance?

We can only know the angular speed, but that's not enough.

I seem to recall him arguing against bats stating the "it's winter" argument in at least one of his videos.

As for the size it Is detectable to some extent. At one point a bird (dove, most likely) flies by the shot, revealing itself to be very large in comparison to the dot. The dot appears to be bigger than a bug, seeing how a bug just beside the bird would be the size of a mosquito.. and have you tried catching one of those on video at a large altitude? The acceleration is important too. I still claim that no bug or animal can do the maneuvers this thing does. It's very fast, and pulls some very serious G's in very controlled maneuvers.

So yet again, it's either CGI or an alien craft of some sort.

reply to post by jclmavg


Does the claimant provide alternative explanations of what it might be?

Well?

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by jclmavg

 

Does the claimant provide alternative explanations of what it might be?

Well?

As far as I can tell "the claimant" merely suggests it is a "UFO". At this point this conclusion seems justified.

If the UFO skeptic suggests it is a kite, or bat, the burden of proof for this explanation rests solely on the skeptic. A skeptic's refusal to support his prosaic explanation with evidence and arguments would make the "skeptic" a pseudoskeptic. You know this by now.

Originally posted by jclmavg

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
Jclmavg.....
Hello from one of "the cynics".

Heh, I don't consider you a cynic my friend.

What do you think it is.....aliens?

My preliminary conclusion is contained in the last sentence of my previous post. My conclusion is that no conclusion is possible at this point.

Jclmavg.....

I apologise if I sounded rude.....I was not happy after the previous "bat brain" comment.

I see enough there to decide that on balance the objects are "bats".

But then again, I'm a "bat brain"

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by jclmavg


I agree. We have not been provided enough information to identify what we're looking at, so technically, yes, they are UFOs. My suspicion is that the maker of this video has deliberately withheld information that would allow us to make that identification. Bats seem the most reasonable explanation, but since we can't be sure even when this video was taken, we can't falsify this hypothesis by comparing it to bats' seasonal behavior.

Originally posted by ArMaP
We can only know the angular speed, but that's not enough.

While it is true you will never be able to tell the real size of the object you can establish ranges based on known examples of birds, bats, etc. Eg. one can presume it is a bat, use that as a reference size and go from there and see if the calculated results match an acceptable range. If the results do not, then it is not a bat.

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

What do you think it is.....aliens?

Yes they may be aliens, whether your or about it.

The possibilities in this universe are immense.

Originally posted by DrexonI seem to recall him arguing against bats stating the "it's winter" argument in at least one of his videos.

I haven't seen the other videos, I usually limit myself to one at a time.

As for the size it Is detectable to some extent.

Then why did you said it was not?

At one point a bird (dove, most likely) flies by the shot, revealing itself to be very large in comparison to the dot.

At what time does that happen? I didn't saw any bird when the camera is showing the unidentified object.

and have you tried catching one of those on video at a large altitude?

I don't understand what you are referring to, but I tried to catch some swallows on camera, flying at some 50 metres above me and it was hard, their movement was very fast.

The acceleration is important too.

But that's the problem, how can we calculate acceleration if we don't know the speed, and we don't know the speed because we don't know the distance?

Originally posted by sremmos
here's a question, would you be able to follow a bat with your camera at a close enough distance that the bat would move like that?

Judging by the way the stars in the background move, yes, it doesn't look too fast.

Also, can a bat stop in midair nearly instantly?

As far as I know, no, but they can change direction just like that, and if they change direction towards or away from the camera (don't forget that we are looking at a 3D scene) it would look like it's stopped.

Also, why are the "bats" dots when the "birds" are clearly visible? How high to bats fly while "hunting"?

We don't know if the camera was zoomed to the same level in both shots, but if the birds were flying low and the bats high then it would explain why the bats look like dots. Also, we don't know what type of bird are we seeing, some are bigger than others.

And yes, bats can fly at least as high as the insects they feed on, and those can fly relatively high.

I mean it wouldn't seem like they'd go very high, definitely not higher than the birds he was filming in high quality

Why?

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
So what do you think it is..... aliens?

There's hardly enough there to go on to even begin to draw conclusions in any form. Even if it were a craft of some sort, who's to say it wasn't terrestrial in origin.

But when I see balls of light in the sky like that, I'm inclined to think they may be balls of plasma discharged from crystals being crushed deep within the earth. Especially in light of the seeming increase in geo-seismic activity of late. The objects in that video were much more inline with the movement of free floating plasma balls than with the movement of bats.

It took offense at the bat explanations because of how little effort was used to support those claims. To throw out a seemingly possible explanation then dismiss the whole thing doesn't bring us any closer to understanding what's really happening in that video. It seems like people are more intent on disproving UFOs than getting to what is really happening.

UFOs or not, it's the mystery that fascinates people.

Sorry for the double post, meant to edit my last one.

Originally posted by cripmeister
And why is it ridiculous? Please explain.

I would think the movement displayed by those objects would be obvious that the couldn't be bats, especially looking at the parts where they accelerate. But my experience with bats is limited to knocking them out of the air with tennis rackets, which is probably a lot more than any of you dingbats have. (don't mean to be insulting, I just can't resist the bat themed insult/jokes)



[edit on 18-4-2010 by The Cusp]

I suggest that these are IFOs, piloted by humans employed by the government. They are in anti-gravity vessels that have been backwards engineered by NASA / US Military.

and good luck getting anything out of the maker of the video, he deleted my post and banned me when I made a comment about the music he used.

talk about sensitvie lol

Originally posted by ArMaP

I mean it wouldn't seem like they'd go very high, definitely not higher than the birds he was filming in high quality

Why?

Because it would depend on the type of bat and location? It seems only the free-tailed bats feed on insects at high altitutes. Other species feed on insects close to the ground. Is the free-tailed bat common for Niagra Falls?

[edit on 18-4-2010 by jclmavg]

Originally posted by The Cusp
But my experience with bats is limited to knocking them out of the air with tennis rackets, which is probably a lot more than any of you dingbats have.

I have watched them from the ground, flying above me, many times, usually around some 10 or 15 minutes for each "session".

I have also watched them from my balcony on the fourth floor.

Originally posted by jclmavg

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by jclmavg

 

Does the claimant provide alternative explanations of what it might be?

Well?

As far as I can tell "the claimant" merely suggests it is a "UFO". At this point this conclusion seems justified.

If the UFO skeptic suggests it is a kite, or bat, the burden of proof for this explanation rests solely on the skeptic. A skeptic's refusal to support his prosaic explanation with evidence and arguments would make the "skeptic" a pseudoskeptic. You know this by now.

He shows us some low flying birds and makes the assumption that the objects can't be birds. Apparently there are only one species of birds at Niagra falls and they only fly at a certain altitude. What about swallows? What about bats? He has not made an effort, why should we take him seriously?