Welcome to possibly the next ice age!

With the resent eruption of volcanoes on a massive scale I think we should look back in history at two points with the major ice age that started about 20,000 years ago and lasted for 8000 to 10,000 years and mini ice ages. With these events we need to understand what naturally caused them since so far humans had no influence in either and they continue to happen.

The two major influences in creating an ice age scenario are volcanic eruptions and the sun spot cycles with the last one called Maunder minimum that help put us into a mini ice age from the mid 1600s to the late 1800s.

Volcanos are very disruptive that even one volcano can cause havoc for a few years on the earth as we see below,

Source

One proposed volcanic winter happened c. 70,000 years ago following the supereruption of Lake Toba on Sumatra island in Indonesia.[4] According to the Toba catastrophe theory to which some anthropologists and archeologists subscribe, it had global consequences,[5] killing most humans then alive and creating a population bottleneck that affected the genetic inheritance of all humans today.[6] The 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora created global climate anomalies that became known as the "Year Without a Summer" because of the effect on North American and European weather.[7] Agricultural crops failed and livestock died in much of the Northern Hemisphere, resulting in one of the worst famines of the 19th century.[8] The freezing winter of 1740-41, which led to widespread famine in northern Europe, may also owe its origins to a volcanic eruption.[9]

but add up a continue flow of volcanoes with a mix of a solar minimum and maybe tidal changes and you get a full blown ice age for a good 10,000 or more years. What takes place is a buildup of ice and with that build up the ice reflects the sun radiation back while both sun spot cycles and volcanoes will reduce the overall radiation we receive. After years of this the sun cycles through a more radiation period and the atmosphere cleans up, but massive amount of ice buildup creates an extremely slow progression back to a warmer period due to the continued reflection of the sun’s radiation


So now here we are in 2010 with the solar minimum stared in 2006 and a huge volcano right now in Iceland that will most likely dump into the atmosphere for the next month that seems to have everything in place needed to dump us into a very long ice age that can affect the whole world within a few short years.


[edit on 17-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

nice thread.....i just heard 16,000 flights all over the world =delayed due to the recent volcanic eruption

[edit on 17-4-2010 by Noobastronomer]

The key word is MINI Iceage.

A hell of a lot more ash has to be in the air for years before that would occur though. But hey, I go with the saying:

"All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again"

Originally posted by Xtrozero
With the resent eruption of volcanoes on a massive scale I think we should look back in history at two points with the major ice age that started about 20,000 years ago and lasted for 8000 to 10,000 years and mini ice ages. With these events we need to understand what naturally caused them since so far humans had no influence in either and they continue to happen.

The two major influences in creating an ice age scenario are volcanic eruptions and the sun spot cycles with the last one called Maunder minimum that help put us into a mini ice age from the mid 1600s to the late 1800s.

Volcanos are very disruptive that even one volcano can cause havoc for a few years on the earth as we see below,

Source

One proposed volcanic winter happened c. 70,000 years ago following the supereruption of Lake Toba on Sumatra island in Indonesia.[4] According to the Toba catastrophe theory to which some anthropologists and archeologists subscribe, it had global consequences,[5] killing most humans then alive and creating a population bottleneck that affected the genetic inheritance of all humans today.[6] The 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora created global climate anomalies that became known as the "Year Without a Summer" because of the effect on North American and European weather.[7] Agricultural crops failed and livestock died in much of the Northern Hemisphere, resulting in one of the worst famines of the 19th century.[8] The freezing winter of 1740-41, which led to widespread famine in northern Europe, may also owe its origins to a volcanic eruption.[9]

but add up a continue flow of volcanoes with a mix of a solar minimum and maybe tidal changes and you get a full blown ice age for a good 10,000 or more years. What takes place is a buildup of ice and with that build up the ice reflects the sun radiation back while both sun spot cycles and volcanoes will reduce the overall radiation we receive. After years of this the sun cycles through a more radiation period and the atmosphere cleans up, but massive amount of ice buildup creates an extremely slow progression back to a warmer period due to the continued reflection of the sun’s radiation


So now here we are in 2010 with the solar minimum stared in 2006 and a huge volcano right now in Iceland that will most likely dump into the atmosphere for the next month that seems to have everything in place needed to dump us into a very long ice age that can affect the whole world within a few short years.


[edit on 17-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

If Katla erupts which is 8 miles away from the other one, then it will be even worse. And history shows that when one erupts the other one will also. Also when people say mini Ice Age they think that its safe and okay and whatever, but they have to remember alot has changed in the world from the last mini or major ice age (6 billion and change in population, massive deforestation, heavy industry and pollution etc.) So you add all that up and with the volcano erupting for weeks or months on end we could turn a mini one into a major Ice age or something in between. Also what is being pumbed into the atmosphere isn't just gases it's pulverized rock/silica the size of flour or sugar granules. So what you have is pulverized land being spread over the atmosphere which acts to block the sun energy. It doesn't take alot to do this. Also having particulate in the atmosphere can ring out the moisture in the atmosphere, so places are getting more rain or less rain because the rain bands may not be able to get to the part of the world before they are precipitated out to early. Volcanoes are the biggest weather control mechanism on the planet (I haven't read up to much on the sunspots but I will).

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Pharyax


AGREED MINI ICE AGE JUST TO COOL DOWN WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY HEATED

Starred and Flagged!
Once again, Mother Nature shows that mankind cannot hold a candle to what she can do with climate change. I guess now Al Gore won't be able to fly his private jet to Europe for awhile.

And they wonder why the saying "History Repeats Itself" came to be....

15 Apr10 - "Temperatures are set to plummet in coming years and Britain could face a new Little Ice Age," says this article in the Daily Express.

That shocking statement came as a result of a report published today in Environmental Research Letters, which said: “Solar activity during the current sunspot minimum has fallen to levels unknown since the start of the 20th century."

Source: www.iceagenow.com...

New Little Ice Age by 2030!

Analysis of the sun's activity in the last two millennia indicates that, contrary to the IPCC's speculation about man-made global warming, that we could be headed into a Maunder minimum type of climate (a Little Ice Age).

The probability is high that the minima around 2030 and 2201 will go along with periods of cold climate comparable to the nadir of the Little Ice Age, and La Niñas will be more frequent and stronger than El Niños through 2018 (Landscheidt, 2000).

We need not wait until 2030 to see whether the forecast is correct, however. A declining trend in solar activity and global temperature should become manifest long before then. The current 11-year sunspot cycle 23 with its considerably weaker activity seems to be a first indication of the new trend, especially as it was predicted on the basis of solar motion cycles two decades ago. As to temperature, only El Niño periods should interrupt the downward trend, but even El Niños should become less
frequent and strong.

Source: www.iceagenow.com...

It's not the materials that are spewed out that cause an ice age. It's all about the gasses. Sulvor (well... it's gas form ) will merge with water vapour high up in the atmosphere. The merger ends up as sulfuric acid. This will act like a mirror and reflect sunlight. Any material will fall down.

The capacity of iceland's volcanoes says it could cause problems.
In 17...something one of it's volcanoes released massive amounts of sulfuric gas up in the air. Enough so it resulted in a summer less year where crops es failed and people were dying from hunger during the famine it caused. Remarkably it was only a small eruption.

For material to have effect on our weather system it has to be high up in the atmosphere. This is not the case with this eruption. For it to cause problems with air traffic it's not high up at all.
However with gasses and all, they could very well get in the upper atmosphere.

edit.
A small or minor ace age will stall last for an estimate of around a 1000 years or so.

Have fun, cuzz it could just as well last 10.000 years.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by Sinter Klaas]

Pretty much confirms what the anthropogenc global warming sceptics have been saying all along - that the carbon dioxide produced by volcanoes dwarfs the emissions from man's activities and that sunspots have more influence on the global climate than what was accounted for in the computer models of the global warming scientists.

Now - let us move on to the next phase - that is the one where Al Gore convinces us that pollution is causing the globe to cool and we need cap and trade on pollution to "fix the problem". Next commodity on Al's "chicago carbon exchange market.....emissions of sulphur and nitrous oxides.

Al will, of course, have to take just a little off the top of each transaction.

And there will be supporters who will argue until they are blue in the face that this action is necessary to "save the earth"

TIRED OF CONTROL FREAKS

I have a strong feeling that this is THE BEGINNING OF AN END FOR EUROPE. THIS VOLCANO AND PERHAPS MORE OTHERS SOON WILL MAKE EUROPE UNINHABITABLE.

If you're in Europe, I recommend you get out of there ASAP if you don't want to suffocate to death.
The ash will build up more and more, your water supply and livestock will be poisoned. famines, etc will follow. get out to Asia, Africa or North/South America. if you wait longer, they won't save you or accept you in their borders.

there are many prophesies of Europe being flooded and uninhabitable. Save yourself and your family before its too late and run away to another continent or Russia/Asia while you still can and while it's possible to cross the border.

Paradoxically a ice age can be triggered either by an eruption or by increasing global temperature. In both situations the water cycle and air circulation is affected to some degree in which they shut down. Although some people believe that a mini ice age is not that bad, they should consider that fact that it happens very quickly, many species of animals and plants would not adapt. It was always a fact that volcanoes produce much more Co2, the global warming man-made is just a propaganda.

reply to post by Pampamz


There is an article published the gulf stream is not slowing down at this moment . There was a thread made on here just last week or maybe two weeks ago.
Edit. link
Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

Ice core apparently shows evidence an ice age can occur like switching a button. With a time frame of only a decade.
However their are fossil records that tells us of mammoths froze over faster then it's last meal was able to be digested. It was found frozen still in the stomach of the animal. Even weirder does it get when they told that the plants and flowers in the stomach were only growing in a temporate climate.
Edit. link.
Frozen mamoth remains.

Co2 is also claimed to be a cause of warmer weather instead of the cause for warming the climate.
Edit. See sources.

There are far more potent greenhouse gasses around like ozone, which is a natural produced gas. Methane which is also a natural produced gas and is as we speak released in to the atmosphere in massive amounts do to the melting of Canadian and Russian permafrost.
The level of Co2 released by only 9 of the biggest cargo ships is on a yearly basis about the same as all the worlds personal automobile exhaust is. ( I only read about this on two separate occasions never once here it debunked. IMO this could be covered up and it's disappearing is evidence. ) Could be wrong tho. Any thoughts ?
Then the amount of Co2 which is released by the disappearing forests of the world is massive. ( Man made but cap and trade is no solution for this problem )
As last example.
Underneath the continental shelves of Northern Europe and North America ( and probably any other continent as well. ) Are very large amounts of gas stored in the bodem. This gas is in a frozen state preserved and called methane hydrate. Only a small temperatures change or some other occurrence can melt it. It will turn into gas and float towards the service.
Any boat on the spot where it reaches the service will sink. A boat can't float on gas. The amount of this hydrate gas around is unbelievable large.

@ betweentheworlds
I don't like your feeling one bit.

However ash is not that deadly as long as you don't breath it in. keep in mind the ash is not like dust but more like crystallised rock. Or glass.

I don't know where you are from but if you are American. You don't want to live anywhere near Yellowstone when it blows.


Sources.
Methane release (thread)

The results can be reconciled if atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations were not the principal driver of climate variability on geological timescales for at least one-third of the Phanerozoic eon, or if the reconstructed carbon dioxide concentrations are not reliable.

This is from an article in Nature. It suggests Co2 and global warming are not related.
You can read about it in a thread I've made or visit this link to read the article.

A paper refuting permanent effect of greenhouse gasses.

Carbon dioxide hydrate ( wiki link )

Methane hydrate (wiki link)

Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

This article says although volcanic Co2 released in the atmosphere is massive but humans do a better job. Well... as long as volcanic activity keeps the same.

Visit full article here.
Volcanic gasses and ther effects

Volcanic gasses (wiki link)

Green house gas emisions

Ozone Depleting Substances and Synthetic Greenhouse Gases

Global warming report. Show the difference if water vapour is added to the model.
This is a study buy.
Dr. S. Fred Singer, atmospheric physicist
Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences at the University of Virginia,
and former director of the US Weather Satellite Service;
in a Sept. 10, 2001 Letter to Editor, Wall Street Journal

Scientists are increasingly recognizing the importance of water vapor in the climate system. Some, like Wallace Broecker, a geochemist at Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, suggest that it is such an important factor that much of the global warming in the last 10,000 years may be due to the increasing water vapor concentrations in Earth's atmosphere.

His research indicates that air reaching glaciers during the last Ice Age had less than half the water vapor content of today. Such increases in atmospheric moisture during our current interglacial period would have played a far greater role in global warming than carbon dioxide or other minor gases.

I will end this buy adding this last site where ice core data is discussed between people who are educated enough to give a reliable source based answer and question.

About the chicken-and-egg question, there is little doubt that in the Vostok ice core, there is a lag of several hundreds of years of CO2 after the start of the temperature increase during a deglaciation and several thousands of years after the start of a glaciation. See: Fischer ea.. For more recent time periods, before the industrial revolution, I have only found lags of CO2 after temperature changes: for the 60-20 kyr BP period in the Taylor Dome ice core, for the Younger Dryas event (comment on stomata data, not on the Net anymore), for the past 1,000 years (Law Dome, a lag of app. 50 years after temperature changes – temperature data not available in the Law Dome database).

Edit. forgot the link.

www.realclimate.org... s/2005/11/650000-years-of-greenhouse-gas-concentrations/

There is also talk about mouna loa ( Hawaii ) and the missing water vapor from our the current model.

I'm sorry that much of this looks of topic. I posted this all because I think it's all related and adds to the thread. But that's only my opinion so.

I've tried to post only the sites that could or do add to issues I read in the thread. My conclusion is global warming is not man made but I do not deny we do have a minor impact.

The most honest answer is that the evidence looks in favour of a natural climate change but there is not enough evidence to say that it is 100% proven.
Along with the massive actions and conclusions from the MSM and their resulting enslavement of the people to reduce greenhouse gasses.

The cheat ,lie , and deceit. What more do you need ?

The volcanic contribution is rated far to low IMO.
As the effects from an eruption are far bigger then what we've caused.

Their are far to many inconsistencies in the current models. Proof that our current model is indeed false but not exactly that you can ignore it's results.

In the mean time. If Iceland's volcano does what it did in the 18th century we will be introduced with the best evidence yet. Experience.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by Pharyax
The key word is MINI Iceage.

A hell of a lot more ash has to be in the air for years before that would occur though. But hey, I go with the saying:

"All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again"

But even with a mini we can be talking 500 years, and a large enough volcano like the one 70,000 years ago causes mass extinction with us barely surviving it too. Now today we have a much better chance, but we could still see billion die around the world in a very short period of time.

Originally posted by hoghead cheese

Also having particulate in the atmosphere can ring out the moisture in the atmosphere, so places are getting more rain or less rain because the rain bands may not be able to get to the part of the world before they are precipitated out to early. Volcanoes are the biggest weather control mechanism on the planet (I haven't read up to much on the sunspots but I will).

en.wikipedia.org...

Those particulates can stay in the atmosphere for years too. Add in acid rain and we can once again see winters that do not end with acid rain wiping out what croips that do grow.

It can even be argued that with the last time this happened in the early 1800s we were more capable to handle it than we are today.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas

Ice core apparently shows evidence an ice age can occur like switching a button. With a time frame of only a decade.
However their are fossil records that tells us of mammoths froze over faster then it's last meal was able to be digested. It was found frozen still in the stomach of the animal. Even weirder does it get when they told that the plants and flowers in the stomach were only growing in a temporate climate.

I agree it can start like a light switch for we are talking only a -2 temp dev from normal to do this.

I don't know where you are from but if you are American. You don't want to live anywhere near Yellowstone when it blows.

The lucky ones live near it....hehe this one would have us seeing glaciers in Arizona. The Columbia was 700 feet (yes 700!) higher back during the last ice age. We are talking massive changes to the land all over the world too.


Actually I agree that humans are slowly adding to the green house effect and without any influences we will cause big problems. We would see Al Gore a little differently today if Mount Pinatubo didn’t blow its top back in the early 1990s. Though I do not agree with the extreme that old Al preaches that one volcano reset all our global warming efforts and pushed them past 2030 of what we should have seen starting in 1995.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Hi.

I can't say I agree. I can't disagree either because I only know what I read and experience.

But I think we do not cause that much of an impact.
1. The scientists themselves tell us they don't know because they don't understand the system completely. ( as a whole )
2. The scientists that do know say ( some of them ) the science is a done deal. Disturbing as it is their result turns us in mere cash cows if they succeed. I think that's a major issue. One that leads me to think somethings up.
3. As I understand the current model does not contain water vapour. Strangely enough because it's represents about 95% of the gasses in our atmosphere.
4. Ice core samples on several and different locations show a gap between the rise in temprature and the rise in Co2. The Co2 follows.
5. Our oceans are the Earths central heating system. I understand that they have even cooled down a bit the last decade. I name the oceans because any heat above land cools down fast. Like in a dessert it can freeze at night. On land the heat would be far better preserved if there still were forests around.
6. Their are more potent green house gasses released in the atmosphere as we speak.

Know the most important reason that makes me doubt our current climate model is correct, and that we are mislead to believe it's highly accurate.

7. The biggest producers of Co2 are the western civilised world. The new markets that are currently growing like they are hunted by a T-Rex, produce a lot. With China and India on top.

So. What is wrong with this picture. They are not showing signs to cut emissions. The emissions rise. The responsible think of a plan what will enslave the common man yet the polluters are not bothered with any consequences what so ever. I may seem so. But the only thing they work on are the things that will bring profit.

But these leaders of state and corporate industries have children and family to ?
They are intelligent people. Do you really think they will keep polluting if they knew it will screw up their children's future. Their legacies ?
They must know more.
We don't have that much of an impact. Or somethings bad is coming and it doesn't matter. .

Not even mentioning that we are focused on green power and climate but where it really is going wrong is ignored.
Empty seas, Killer whales are the most toxic animals in the sea.
They didn't evolve a venom gland all of a sudden.

Plastic islands the size of Texas in the pacific and the Atlantic.

I'll stop now because I'm ranting and I'm getting mad.
I just don't understand why people don't care or don't even see what's on the other side of the fence.

Sorry that I flowed away from topic.

I think Ice ages are interesting and I believe I have found a study that explains them as a cause by Universal radiation.
Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?

The Milky Way Galaxy's Spiral Arms and Ice-Age Epochs and the Cosmic Ray Connection

Strong evidence of solar/ cosmic influencing our climate.
CERN research. ( Climate again sorry._)


PS.
I'm do not deny that we do leave an impact. ( Had to say it )

Am I the only one who thinks this volcanic ash/gasses may impact crops to a greater extent in the near future? It's already predicted to be a bumpy ride for the next couple of years. Perhaps Gaia is performing a few feedback mechanisms in an attempt to stabilize her self, and wipe some of us out in the process.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


We're at the end of an Interglacial. Regardless of how many volcanoes erupt, the next ice age - 100,000 years - will be triggered by a pole shift which will be triggered by the brown dwarf in the next 30 months. It happens on a cyclic basis. Don't argue with me, check it out. For starters, try www.iceagenow.com

mclinking

reply to post by mclinking


Yes, don't debate your absurdities. Take you word as absolute fact.

deny what?

edit for: spelling? not a single error, fool !!

[edit on 19-4-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions


I'm not here to debate. I said check it out. I'd also check your spelling.

mclinking