Democratic Socialism Works & People Are Happy About It!

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's not because Americans are more prone to violence, there are just more village idiots, cause well, there are more villages..

OK, getting out the pad and pencil and writing that one down. I like it!!

I was over in Sweden a few years ago.

It's one very expensive place to visit, mostly because of the high tax rate.

I liked the people however, the cities are not so friendly as they used to be.

I think that the liberal government has imported too many people that are now living on government handouts and not integrating into the Swedish society.

Sweden is having some issues.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Australia was one of the places included in my statements. And hey, that's another thing: We don't work so hard to please our corporate masters. I don't see how this could be a bad thing. To maintain a healthy, happy populace several things are required: Press freedoms (en.wikipedia.org...), Low corruption (en.wikipedia.org...) A place where people feel their vote counts (en.wikipedia.org...) The ability to own private property (en.wikipedia.org...) a low homicide rate (en.wikipedia.org...) Jobs (en.wikipedia.org...) A good life expectancy (en.wikipedia.org...) Low poverty (en.wikipedia.org...) Access to healthcare (www.nationmaster.com...) (This one surprised me. I was expecting the US to have cheaper healthcare due to the 'free market' etc. What happened there guys?)

Even us in the UK, which is far from perfect (hell, we have most of the same problems as you, far less cultured than the rest of Europe) managed to come out ahead of you almost every time. Please, just look at the statistics and perhaps wonder why that is.

Also, if you took just a small portion of your (insanely overbloated) military budget, you could have things like universal healthcare! It's ridiculous. No country is perfect-it never will be, as Humans are by definition flawed. However, a social democracy or social elements (such as the above) improves the quality of life of individuals and the health of society as well. Total self sufficiency is far overrated. We got over that attitude in the '50s (actually, many of our arguments back then against the NHS were almost identical to the ones you were all having recently against Obama's health care reform. Which was terrible, by the way.)



[edit on 15-4-2010 by GTasker]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by ganjoa
reply to post by Misoir

 

Please don't assume that a statistical variation in the murder rate is any sort of meaningful indicator as to how safe a society is. Certain folks use the same statistics to demonize guns, like watching the water meter to see how fast your car is going. Sure we have more fatality because of the use of weapons, but I've seen proportionately more street level violence in several European countries first hand. I would definitely by that voilence is more deadly in America, but not necessarily more prevalent. Just my 2c.

gj

I would agree, except having a large population, there's going to be more crime statistically. The us would have more crime than any other European country because there are more people.

It's not because Americans are more prone to violence, there are just more village idiots, cause well, there are more villages..

~Keeper

Proportionality: It doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by infolurker

 

Ok, well I wasn't attempting to say that America should turn into a Social Democracy, I think you all could do just fine in at what your doing so long as you remove your government and replace it with people who actually care.

As for freedom of speech, I have that in Canada. Self defense? I have that in Canada.

There is nobody in this country attempting to change the laws for another poeple. The UK has that problem with it's Muslim community, put that is the UK's fault for not putting their foot down.

My country, because of it's Social Democracy has kept it's nose clean of most conflicts around the world and has not had to "bully" it's way into economic freedom and progress.

~Keeper

you dont have free speech in canada...its not FREE if its regulated.

its not FREE if i cant say what i want no matter who it 'offends'.

THAT IS NOT FREE SPEECH.

your so brainwashed its pathetic....you are brainwashed to believe what you in canada have is 'freedom'. no what you have is LIMMITED freedom.

self-defense....gun control is bad in canada.

god this is why i hate socialist european/canadians.

This is all about 'happiness' correct?

and 'quality' of life?

maybe the reason europe scores higher then the USA is because europeans rarely(just like americans)ever leave the european continent....you europeans just dont know any better.

you were brought up in a nanny state...its all you have ever known. im sure if you take a average european person and drop them in america with citizenship.....they wont make it.

why? because america values self-reliance(most of us do).we have welfare and other social programs...but not as socialistic and prevelant as europe.

you europeans have everything handed to you on a silver platter...you suck at the GOV teat CONSTANTLY.

free handouts are popular over there....i just want to know how people define 'quality of life'? that would solve many problems.

reply to post by DEMONcrats


Can you go up to a black man and call him a ''n-word''

Can you go up to a policeman and call him a '#'?

Without being penalised? At all? Really?

Also, 'The right to self defence' does not equal 'the right to unrestricted self defence'. America doesn't have the latter either.

reply to post by DEMONcrats


Wrong. We suck at each other's teats. Wealth distribution, we share the wealth around to help those less fortunate in our society. More for the people, less for corrupt corporate CEOs and the like. We have everything 'handed to us on a silver platter'? Well, it appears to work. What's the problem? I can't see one.

quick question....did america become the richest nation on earth because it is socialist....no it got that way because it was CAPATALIST.

the problem with socialism is that it drives down incentive.....why invent something to get myself out of this hole when i can stick my hand out? Why start a buisness when i can stick my hand out?

there is another downfall to this 'social democracy'....government keeps getting bigger and bigger. soon the government is part of your everyday life. you cant shrink it now though YOUR RELIANT on it.

you seen have a NANNY state(europe is a nanny state)...tthe government has to hold your hand through everything.

inevitably the government become too big and collapses or it become tyrannical sometimes both.

corruption also becomes a big problem.

if your happy with big government interventon in your life and buisness=social democracy.

if you want self-reliance and smaller government=free-market republic

Originally posted by GTasker
reply to post by DEMONcrats

 

Can you go up to a black man and call him a ''n-word''

Can you go up to a policeman and call him a '#'?

Without being penalised? At all? Really?

Also, 'The right to self defence' does not equal 'the right to unrestricted self defence'. America doesn't have the latter either.

if i wanted to say that i could....does that surprise you...i bet it would in europe/canada.

in fact i could go up to you in america and call you a EUROF#G and you could not press charges for 'hate speech' or such other bullcrap non-sense.

we have semi-automatic rifles...i say thats better then the rest of the world(besides switzerland).

Originally posted by GTasker
reply to post by DEMONcrats

 

Wrong. We suck at each other's teats. Wealth distribution, we share the wealth around to help those less fortunate in our society. More for the people, less for corrupt corporate CEOs and the like. We have everything 'handed to us on a silver platter'? Well, it appears to work. What's the problem? I can't see one.

to help? your doing nothing but making sure they will never better themselves...why better yourself when like you said 'we help those unfortunent'BAH.

thats assuming CEO are corrupt...you just reek of the poor manvs rich man disease...poor you.

maybe you should quit sicking each others teats(your words not mine)in jolly old england and better yourselves.

and you cant see that your doing worse financially then the US??

that the UK has one of the worst poverty and crime rates in the world......you have a really bad crime rate...in fact the worse in europe...so much for that jolly old gun control..right 'mate'.

reply to post by DEMONcrats

You seem confused. Let me help you.

-Yes, Capitalism helps most nations get rich. The British Empire was rich due to Capitalism. There comes a time in every rich nation's life when it decides to tone down some of its Capitalist elements, add a nice, healthy welfare state onto everything and retire from the world scene, happy to maintain a happy, long-lived and reasonably productive populace insetad of going after money for the sake of it.

-Social Democracy is not Socialism. That's your first point. Socialism is collective ownership of the emans of production by the means of production by the workers. Some of these Social Democracies have a freer market than you! (Canada, The Republic of Ireland, Australia) whilst others still are on roughly equal terms (The UK, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands...) en.wikipedia.org...:Index_of_Economic_Freedom_2009.png

-The Government already is a part of your daily life, whether you like it or not. At least in many of these Social Democracies the people can choose their government freely. en.wikipedia.org...

-Europe is not a nanny state. 'Europe' isn't a state. It's a continent, with quite a few states on it Please, get an education. However, many of the nations within Europe are 'Nanny states', yes. If you can help someone, why shouldn't you? Makes things easier and less stressful, leading to happier people.

-Corruption? en.wikipedia.org... Nope, seems you're wrong.

-Big government? Intrusion into personal lives? France is a 'free-market Republic'. Why's the 'Republic' bit important?

You're just spouting rhetoric...



You guys don't know how easy we have it.

Originally posted by DEMONcrats

Originally posted by GTasker
reply to post by DEMONcrats

 

Can you go up to a black man and call him a ''n-word''

Can you go up to a policeman and call him a '#'?

Without being penalised? At all? Really?

Also, 'The right to self defence' does not equal 'the right to unrestricted self defence'. America doesn't have the latter either.

if i wanted to say that i could....does that surprise you...i bet it would in europe/canada.

in fact i could go up to you in america and call you a EUROF#G and you could not press charges for 'hate speech' or such other bullcrap non-sense.

we have semi-automatic rifles...i say thats better then the rest of the world(besides switzerland).

Ha. You expect Mr. Ghetto Gangbanger to sit back and let you insult him? The law is just an enforcement of certain standards which, when left to their own devices, people would enforce anyway.

On the guns point, no. It's not better than the rest of the world. You make me laugh. Finland, for example (one of your hated 'Social Democracies' has some of the most liberal gun laws in the world. Other nations, like Somalia (or indeed, many places in Africa) have no limitations.

Originally posted by DEMONcrats

to help? your doing nothing but making sure they will never better themselves...why better yourself when like you said 'we help those unfortunent'BAH.

thats assuming CEO are corrupt...you just reek of the poor manvs rich man disease...poor you.

maybe you should quit sicking each others teats(your words not mine)in jolly old england and better yourselves.

and you cant see that your doing worse financially then the US??

that the UK has one of the worst poverty and crime rates in the world......you have a really bad crime rate...in fact the worse in europe...so much for that jolly old gun control..right 'mate'.

-Nobody's stopping them from bettering themselves. We're just keeping them propped up when they fall on hard times.

-CEOs get a lot of the money for little of the work.

-Well, yes, of course we are. In a country several times smaller than the USA, with few natural resources and little industry any more (that capitalist Maggie Thatcher, you know, the one that helped Ronal Reagan win the Cold War? She sold it all off.) Of course we're financially lesser... And yet we're doing well. Then again, I'm not arguing in favour of Britain's system. Our system is still much too right-winged and authoritarian. I'm arguing in favour of a Scandinavian-style system, which is consistently shown to work en.wikipedia.org...

-Worst poverty and crime rates in the world? en.wikipedia.org... What planet are you on? Did the entire third world just cease to exist? We're doing better than the USA according to that list...

I'd like to see your sources, not just the propaganda that you've been fed. Thanks

Nations by GDP per capita: en.wikipedia.org...(nominal)_per_capita

Nations by GDP (PPP) per capita: en.wikipedia.org...(PPP)_per_capita

The United States is not doing as well as it likes to shout, it seems.

Originally posted by GTasker

Originally posted by DEMONcrats

Originally posted by GTasker
reply to post by DEMONcrats

 

Can you go up to a black man and call him a ''n-word''

Can you go up to a policeman and call him a '#'?

Without being penalised? At all? Really?

Also, 'The right to self defence' does not equal 'the right to unrestricted self defence'. America doesn't have the latter either.

if i wanted to say that i could....does that surprise you...i bet it would in europe/canada.

in fact i could go up to you in america and call you a EUROF#G and you could not press charges for 'hate speech' or such other bullcrap non-sense.

we have semi-automatic rifles...i say thats better then the rest of the world(besides switzerland).

Ha. You expect Mr. Ghetto Gangbanger to sit back and let you insult him?

The law is just an enforcement of certain standards which, when left to their own devices, people would enforce anyway.

On the guns point, no. It's not better than the rest of the world. You make me laugh. Finland, for example (one of your hated 'Social Democracies' has some of the most liberal gun laws in the world. Other nations, like Somalia (or indeed, many places in Africa) have no limitations.

did i say anything about a 'ghetto' gangbanger? no you implied that i cant say what i want because it would be against the law.

which is wrong...i can say what ever i like whenever i like in america.

its that simple.

anyway i hate things like these....the marxists and commies come out of the shadows of ATS to parade around there politicle system saying "see how great it is"

im not saying your that person...though there was one guy who said "read up on marxism if you want a true alternate to capatalism".


i have one question though...before we all debate this can you tell me how this test was done?

what questions were asked.

what do people define as quality of life.

americans define quality of life different then most europeans.

Originally posted by DEMONcrats
did i say anything about a 'ghetto' gangbanger? no you implied that i cant say what i want because it would be against the law.

Wrong. I just said there are limits on what you can say, legal or not. Therefore, it's not free. I'd also like to point out that economics =/= Social freedoms. A Social Democratic nation does not necessarily have to enact such laws, however it's deemed in the interests of the nation to do so by the elected representatives. Do you not like democracy?

which is wrong...i can say what ever i like whenever i like in america.

Not without consequences for yourself.

its that simple.

Nope.

anyway i hate things like these....the marxists and commies come out of the shadows of ATS to parade around there politicle system saying "see how great it is"

im not saying your that person...though there was one guy who said "read up on marxism if you want a true alternate to capatalism".

I agree, Marxism is a silly ideology, at least at the present. What's your point? We're talking about things consistently shown to work in practice: Social Democracy. It has nothing to do with Marxism or Communism, and only very limited resemblance even to Socialism.

i have one question though...before we all debate this can you tell me how this test was done?

what questions were asked.

what do people define as quality of life.

americans define quality of life different then most europeans.

Which test, specifically, would you like information on?

[edit on 15-4-2010 by GTasker]

reply to post by Misoir


Good morning all,

To help answer your question first it’s titled Intentional Homicide, second it is based on population of 100,000. so if you don’t have the total population numbers you can not make a true comparison. Example if your population is only 100,000 and your Intentional Homicide is equal to 1 or less that is great, but lets say you have only a 50,000 population and your rate is 1 per 100,000 that begins to look bad. Intentional is exactly that, it does not include starvation, suicide or natural death due to diseases or other. Example Chairman Moe starvation of killing 70 million this we would class as Intentional but because it was a starvation it is not included. You can also break it down by state or even county to get the true numbers of population and local laws to get a complete picture of an area and its crime rate. Also in the US you have to take in the consideration of the population of the unregistered eligals in this country. That adds another 2 million to the population take total of all and divide that by the 5.40 given we are the safest county in the world. I hope that helps you sorry I could not give you the exact mathematical formula but its to early in the morning for me and I haven’t had my coffee yet.

Democratic socialism? Happiness? Your list neglects to mention:

1. Denmark: No fluoridation

2. Finland: No fluoridation

3. Netherlands: No fluoridation

4. Sweden: No fluoridation

5. Ireland: Still fluoridating

6. Canada: Still fluoridating

7. Switzerland: Still fluoridated

8. New Zealand: No fluoridation

9. Norway: No fluoridation

10. Belgium: No fluoridation

SEVEN OUT OF TEN. I think we found the statistically significant reason why the people surveyed don't feel bad. They're not being poisoned as much.

I also don't want to neglect to mention that fluoridated salt is a major problem as well and the stuff is in Mexico, in the US, Europe and elsewhere. There is virtually no policing of this poisonous salt.

Fluoridated Salt Briefing

How democratically socialistic is it to fluoridate the water and salt under false scientific pretenses?

How capitalistic is it to fluoridate the water under false scientific pretenses?

How "People's Democratic Dictatorship" is it to fluoridate the water under false scientific pretenses? Aha!

But China doesn't have to fluoridate their water; they have mercury in their medicine, because people in China are not worried about medicine ingredients when some of their most popular medicines are "ancient chinese secrets" held by government officials.

11-13% Mercury in One Ancient Chinese Secret

As an example, the proverbial "red pill" Yunnan Baiyao, a notoginseng based hemostatic herb combination, used by forces in Viet Nam as well in China and elsewhere, still has secret ingredients.

Off-Label Inclusion of Nanomaterials in Yunnan Baiyao, 100 year old TCM Patent Medicine

Democratic socialism has zilch to do with happiness. Good health has a relationship with happiness.

Here's another one of those moronic correlation implies causation suggestive articles.

Study: Happiness Good for the Heart

reply to post by GTasker


Just to answer your questions, right or wrong you have the right to call a black person the N word. You might start a fight and get your butt kicked but you do have the right to do so. Hell if you know blacks and hang with them like I do you will hear them calling each other that all the time, so really it comes down to not the word but in how the word itself is used. Example if I walk up to my friends and say hey what’s up N word, they might respond with some thing like not much honky. But you yell out to some one aggressively calling them a stupid N word, expect a fight. But ether way it is not against the law. For by definition the N word simple means one of ignorance and can apply to any one. The word Negro, is a direct reference to one of color.

The same with the LEO (law enforcement officers) you can call them pig pock what ever they will simple ignore you because it is not a crime to do so, as long as you are not inciting a riot.

FYI, most of my family are LEO, and so was I. Trust me we are trained to ignore ignorance as long as you do not spit on or swing at, you are free to say anything you like, and I will defend with my life your right to do so.