UPDATE YOUR FILES: No Barbara Olson Phone Call - It was a LIE!

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Oh, and this is no surprise:

Whoa horsey. Slow down there. There is only a fraction of debris shown in images.

Those "images", firstly, did NOT document the entire scene, nor are EVERY photo ever taken out there for "conpiracy" people to point at and claim "It's not enough!"

At least, that is my opinion. Remember some of the gruesome pics of bodies, human remains and such? Really, out of deference to family, those should NEVER be reproduced for Internet posting. It is ghoulish, and inconsiderate.


In any event, there is LITTLE remaining debris left, of the airframe and its contents, BECAUSE of the forces involved. AND the fires.

What pictures there are, they are mostly the few pieces that were likely swept up by the force of the fuel blast explosion, and scattered upward, outward and so forth.

Majority of the mass continued INSIDE. Some pieces came to rest, out of fire range...plenty of photos of those, especially of engine pieces identifiable as from a R/R RB-211-535 engine. Main landing gear wheel, landing gear strut, etc. AND, of course, both Recorders. (CVR was damaged too badly by fire, and impact damage. Of course, SSFDR was intact enough to yield data).


This information is readily available online. Thing is, it seems, because of how Google is set up, most people fail to find the info in casual searches, since they neglect to search deep enough.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Anyway, concerning this thread right here, it is interesting to review certain other threads about "Barbara Olson" by utilizing the handy-dandy ATS 'search' feature. (ALSO, her name is sometimes spelled "Olsen" in some ATS thread titles...)

Here, is but one of them:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

Oh, and this is no surprise:

Whoa horsey. Slow down there. There is only a fraction of debris shown in images.

Those "images", firstly, did NOT document the entire scene, nor are EVERY photo ever taken out there for "conpiracy" people to point at and claim "It's not enough!

Gee, Captain Weedwhacker, those exterior photos of the Pentagon seem pretty conclusive to everyone but you. Is it too much to ask to see a section of fuselage, wings or tail? (besides that obviously planted small piece of unscorched fuselage on the lawn.) Do you actually think the wings folded up and flew through a small second story hole in the Pentagon without even damaging the wall or breaking a window? Really?

What's missing from these photos? (hint: it weighs 130,000 pounds)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f87598eb5ac9.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4f15af520b4e.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d5b906bc1583.jpeg[/atsimg]

Is there ANYTHING -- no matter how ridiculous -- that you can't justify?


[edit on 4/6/2010 by GoldenFleece]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
In any event, there is LITTLE remaining debris left, of the airframe and its contents, BECAUSE of the forces involved. AND the fires.

This statement makes you lose some credibility with me. The aluminum airframe will not disintegrate, vanish, or any other such nonsense. It will not burn up because of the fires. A plane weighing 130,000 pounds will still have nearly 130,000 pounds of wreckage.

Sorry, not falling for the "well there was little wreckage because stuff disintegrated or vanished into thin air because of the forces involved".

Are you serious! This looks like a Saturday night live skit. The original crew with John and Gilda not the later crew, they suck. Who da hell is the broad in this second video? Is she doing this for some high school theatrical group? The main guy looks like something from Monte Python. He even looks a little like John Cleese. Grow up and start looking at some serious videos will ya. You’re wasting everyone’s time with this crap.
Damn Communists!

reply to post by _BoneZ_


No. Aluminum, the majority of the airframe, melts.

Do you remember (or were in a thread where) I mentioned our airplane that a guy crashed, back in 1975?

Family owned it, operated an FBO rental/flight school, had a few dozen airplnes on lease/back, owned by others...

Anyway, guy crashed on takeoff (he got out OK) but airplane caught fire, in middle of runway, and MELTED, mostly...burned up not much left.

Oh, fringes around the extremities, where fire didn't reach...wingtips, sections of tail...

But, AAL 77, impacting at close to 500 MPH? SHREDDED, disintegrated.

Yes.......if one were to devote the necessary time and effort, then a LOT of the material could be collected, put into a container, and weighed....still, will be missing some mass, since remember, the TOTAL empty weight includes many other items besides the metals that comprise the airframe, and various other components.

So much of the interior? Plastics and fabrics.

Liquids. Foods. ALL have weight, and in the intense fires, not much left.

I mean, doesn't wood burn to ash? Is the ash left from a campfire as heavy as the original logs used to begin with?

And before someone jumps on that analogy....come on and think it through. Many materials will "go up in smoke" in an intense fire.

But, point is, there WAS no point in collecting every little last bit of recognizable AAL 77. Would not have helped in the forensics investigation of WHAT CAUSED the crash, because cause was already known!

And, the SSFDR was really the prize, anyway.....CVR would have been helpful, alas. (Maybe if only to shut down conversations such as this o ne?)

reply to post by GoldenFleece


For GF, and BoneZ:

I guess this needs to be trotted out again.....




Since there are not many videos that show airplanes hitting solid objects at about 500 MPH, this will have to suffice.

Really, same principles involved, due to velocities.

AND, GF...wings did NOT "fold back"....they impacted the outer facade, and some entered, some disentegrated. AND, yes, there were broken windows (NOT sure where you got the idea there weren't?)

Honestly, this has been hashed and re-hased to death here on ATS. So has the F-4 video. No point in repeating much of the stuff that's right here on other threads, via a search, for everyone to go see for themselves....

reply to post by weedwhacker

Since you claim AA 77 disintegrated and/or melted on impact, maybe you could explain what flew through SIX (6) 3-foot thick walls constructed of reinforced concrete, brick and limestone?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b25778e0c44c.jpg[/atsimg]

I guess they just don't make 757 nose cones like they used to:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/865a654e30c4.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 4/6/2010 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by GoldenFleece


GF....we are moving this way too far off the topic of Barbara Olson.

The answer to you question, above, is available elsewhere, on other ATS threads specifically designed to address that issue.

Sorry, this is not a dodge, but I am trying to remember (because I have failed so often in the past) to keep on topic.

So far, because it's about Ms. Olson, and she was aboard, and died on, AAL 77, the topic was tangential, if only slightly.

However, further chatting about the specific details OF the impact damage don't comply with the OP's title.

I think the statement, that I posted, made BY David Ray Griffin, admitting to the fact he was mistaken regarding the AirFones being installed on the AAL 77 should be the tip-off to his lack of credibility, because even AFTR saying that, he still doesn't back down, and continues to spout garbage, on many levels.

It is obfuscation, for whatever purpose, and is obvious to those who care to dig a little deeper than the OP, apparently.

reply to post by weedwhacker

I agree we've gotten off-topic, but after writing all that, you couldn't explain how a 757 could simultaneously disintegrate/melt and punch through six walls of limestone, brick and reinforced concrete?

Sounds like a dodge to me.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Apologies to Mods, and everyone else.....(I was going to make the joke that it was Ms. Olson's big ego, but consider that to be in poor taste --- and not particularly funny, anyway...)

But, to assist those who desperately wish to know the answer to the burning question of the crash dynamics, as best calculated using known physics:

C-Ring Punch-Out Hole Is in Path of Most Aircraft Mass

Many observers find the size of the punch-out hole peculiar because it is small relative to a 757. Measuring about 9 feet in diameter, it is much less than the 12.5-foot diameter of a 757's fuselage.

However, the mass of a jetliner is not uniformly distributed throughout its shape. The fuselage of a 757 comprises only about a quarter of the area of its frontal profile, but makes up well over half of its mass. The distribution of the mass within the fuselage is far from uniform. Most of the structure is located in the lower third of the fuselage, as are the heavy components such as the landing gear.

In a high-speed collision with a building, only the parts of the aircraft with the greatest density and total mass, such as the lower third of the fuselage, could be expected to penetrate far into the building. That part also has a small frontal profile -- approximately the size of the punch-out hole.

911research.com...

All right, everyone. This is it, no more here in this thread. Not from me, anyway....

reply to post by weedwhacker

AND, of course, both Recorders.

And the Data recorder for Flight 77 took off from what: a helipad, so said the recorder?

Just like the fires destroyed the Plane, yet DNA identified everyone....

uhhhh....

the crud mainstream news puts out....

reply to post by weedwhacker

OK, this will also be my last O/T reply.

Being an airline pilot, I was hoping you could explain in your own words how a 757 could simultaneously disintegrate/melt and punch through six walls constructed of brick and reinforced concrete. So much for your F-4 demo.

Instead, you went looking for ANOTHER 9/11 debunking site explanation which makes absolutely no sense in trying to make the case that after soaring through six 3-foot thick walls and numerous interior concrete columns, it would be normal for a jet to make a perfectly round exit hole that's LARGER than the irregularly-shaped entrance hole (see Pentagon photos above.)

Like I said Weed, is there ANYTHING that's not too ridiculous for you to defend?

reply to post by theability

And the Data recorder for Flight 77 took off from what: a helipad, so said the recorder?

Huh?

Really, have looked at FDR data quite a lot...NEVER is anything remotely close to that evidenced in the readouts....

...

"...the crud (some people) puts out...."

Indeed. Ironic, isn't it?

Just like the fires destroyed the Plane, yet DNA identified everyone....

Ahhhh....I think even Ms. Olson's DNA was located. Doesn't take a very large sample, at all.

How many cells do you suppose make up the Human body?

Out of ALL the people onboard the airplane, and the way that the impact forces completely fragmented everything, why is it hard to understand that there will always be something left?

Also....(where is it linked, I forget...) there is a very good source to the actual science of DNA forensics. Even after fires. Not my area of expertise, but there is ample information out there, if searched for.

Fires didn't consume EVERYTHING, of course....we can see that. BUT, as mentioned, a great deal burned up, the materials that would do so.

Other things melted, made unrecognizable.

But, the DNA? I don't think people realize just what can be accomplished it, even in horrific scenarios.

~~~~~~

itty-bitty update-

...For the most part, the recovered DNA seemed to be unaffected by the heat, until the temperature was 800°C or greater. At this temperature, no DNA profiles were obtained.

Full source material.


[edit on 6 April 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker

How many cells do you suppose make up the Human body?

about 7 trillion give or take, but you can't have both weedwacker, the metal can't melt, and DNA be preserved.

OH BTW how did they get all the DNA evidence to compare the results to?

I mean when I was a paramedic in the army we took DNA before deployment obviously so we could do such comparison, now did these people on 9/11 give samples before the flights?

You also said most the material as in Aluminum on OLSEN plane metled and was destroyed ok then explain the 3600F temperatures for the alloys to melt and HOW DNA SURVIVED???


en.wikipedia.org...

you know creamations are done at 760F-2100F.....

so in the end, again, you can't have both, you can't have all the bodies identified, and the plane disolving away in the pentagon fire.....

sorry



like I said you can't have all your way, it doesn't fit.

So there were indeed airphones. Isn't it possible that she called from that, rather than her cell phone?

reply to post by Phil Jayhan


I'd say you made good points.

I'd only ADD, that making a cell phone call WAS possible in 2001 -- just not guaranteed. Mainly because in a plane, you switch cell areas so quickly. But if you were at an airport, or going low speed in a circle, in New York -- chances are probably good that it is possible.

For instance, my brother was over the rockies and thought his lear jet was going down (he was on a business trip), and he left his last goodbye to his wife on the answering machine -- this was around 2000. He made the trip back just fine -- but it was pretty scary being in a thunderstorm.

So, in a rural area, in a storm, on a small plane -- using a cell phone. It can happen. There is no SCIENTIFIC fact of cell phones in 2001 either way.

>> However, it sounds like Ted Olson was working to spread disinformation -- the MAIN point this should bring up; is that the Government was ready and authorizing Disinformation -- while they looked like they were caught flat-footed. That's like the government SEEMING to not be aware of the problems in Louisiana about the Katrina storm, yet closing 144 Public Schools that very week while they couldn't find the state with ice trucks.

Like how the CIA already was feeding the news agencies disinformation on the Underwear bomber, and had their agent from Fox News helping to bug the Senator's office who was chairing the Congressional investigation. The Media, also forgot to mention that the CIA told the State Department to let the bomber back on the plane -- which suggests they were doing their best to embarrass the Obama administration -- while most of their appointments are held up.

When factions in the government are simultaneously "innocent and surprised" and at the same time, have TEAMS set up with disinformation in an organized way -- it really says; "WE knew it was going to happen and we are totally lying." Olson needs to be put on a witness stand under oath.

>> I think the Olson story fed the flames of the theory that people were moved off the airplane before it was crashed into buildings.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


If part of your evidence is Unscorched pieces of Fuselage, then you
haven't seen many pictures of airline crashes, except those posted
on 911 websites.

Including the term Unscorched is implying this is rare or never
happens and that is totally false.

These pieces look too big and heavy to hide up somebody shirt sleeve.
Perhaps you can enlighten us how in broad daylight and not obscured
by any smoke that nodbody noticed after the event somebody moving debris
ONTO the Lawn. Was it smoke and mirrors or several hundred people in the
Pentagon were also in on it. And they must of used Hovercrafts because
there were no tire marks or dragging marks.

Or

Is this another one of those, you can't prove it was planted and I have
to prove it wasn't planted deals.

Originally posted by theability
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

How many cells do you suppose make up the Human body?

about 7 trillion give or take, but you can't have both weedwacker, the metal can't melt, and DNA be preserved.

OH BTW how did they get all the DNA evidence to compare the results to?

I mean when I was a paramedic in the army we took DNA before deployment obviously so we could do such comparison, now did these people on 9/11 give samples before the flights?

You also said most the material as in Aluminum on OLSEN plane metled and was destroyed ok then explain the 3600F temperatures for the alloys to melt and HOW DNA SURVIVED???


en.wikipedia.org...

you know creamations are done at 760F-2100F.....

so in the end, again, you can't have both, you can't have all the bodies identified, and the plane disolving away in the pentagon fire.....

sorry

like I said you can't have all your way, it doesn't fit.

There is a simple, obvious answer that can clear up all the "have Cake and Eat-it Too" Physics miracles: Allah is the only God, and he was on the side of the Hijackers!

Too early?

Anyway, you can't both have melted aluminum and genetic samples -- and we still don't even have a flight manifest that lists anyone NOT ACCOUNTED FOR, that would of course, have some alias or the name of the hijackers. The anti-Truthers, have stated there WAS a manifest -- but the must be referring to the FAXED in Manifest that sought to provide evidence in the Moussoui trial. The ONLY person who accepts a FAX as evidence is Rush Limbaugh - not a court of law.

Since there is no FLIGHT MANIFEST accepted as evidence:
1) Whoever sent the FAX is lying (creating evidence) or needs to reveal the manifest.
2) It's obvious that someone at the FBI got the manifests and is KEEPING THEM -- like the videos around the Pentagon that were confiscated.

Once again, another bit of evidence in a LONG LONG CHAIN showing obstruction of justice. There is NO PROOF of who hijacked the planes -- the only "evidence" of who was on the flights comes from the Media and the Government -- neither of whom is providing substantiated evidence.

Had the events of 9.11 gone as the government (Bush Crime Family) has suggested;
1) We'd have had the flight recorders if they existed in 1 month or less (they have transmitters)
2) 2 minutes could not possibly be missing from the END of a Flight Data Recorder.
3) We'd have at least 6 videos of the area struck at the Pentagon.
4) We'd have the radar recordings of the event.
5) We'd have samples of the steel with chemical printouts from 6 different labs explaining the molten steel, and any of the uncharacteristic "breaks".
6) The government wouldn't have needed to LIE about the free-fall speed of Building 7's collapse only to reverse it when a video was found.
7) NORAD would have released its tapes in the first month.
8) The Bin Laden family would have been detained and questioned by the FBI -- are you kidding me?
9) Dick Cheney's ONLY military drill or ONLY incident of being involved in caring about Terrorism in any capacity would have had a bit more scrutiny.
10) The evidence of foreknowledge would not have trickled out like it did.
11) Ground Zero and the Pentagon would have been treated as a crime scene with documentary evidence and no need to DEBATE THEORIES.


Conspiracies happen all the time, and some people have silly ideas. However, the worst theories have been proposed by the Bush government and they've changed their stories -- and had their own stalled investigative committee say that it was a farce.

Bush and Cheney should have been on trial for treason a long time ago.

Sorry weedy...

But you lost that one....

I once had some kind of supressed admiration for you...I honestly believed that you believed what you were saying....your debating skills seemed pretty high....

But as the heat cranks up on the OS, with all its chinks and cracks growing ever wider, i can see you are beginning to stress...which is understandable really, because no matter how much gloss, spin and hyperbole you put on this whole miserable event that was 9/11,
at the end the TRUTH will prevail..NO...the TRUTH HAS prevailled and you are now seen as someone who is at best laughably gullible, and at worst someone who enjoys speading the old DISINFO.....

When is your next flight Cap'n??