Wikileaks Video Released!!

Originally posted by Compulsionist
America is going down and will not recover , it´s sad but true .

I have known this since I was kid with little to no knowledge of the states.
The USA will cease to exist , trust me ...or just trust yourself , you know it´s true.

So, you are saying your deep seated hatred for the US is anchored in your youth? It began at a time when it is doubtful that any logic, or informed decision making, was within your control? You admit to not knowing much about America, but just knowing that we are "going down"?

This sounds more like "delusional nationalism" than a prophecy.

But your admission of drawing your conclusion without knowledge of any facts, is duly noted.

Deny ignorance, indeed!

Personally i believe the Iraqi should be able to walk freely within their own country without being judged friend or foe by the invasion force. The people who shouldn't have the right to do what ever they want within Iraq is the invasion force.

Personally i dont believe the Invasion force is cut out to do this peace mission. Because, with the mentality and strategy they show and support, creates distrust among the Iraqi people. Iraq is only a war zone because the invasion force is creating it.

If it is against democracy to own firearms in Iraq. Then why is owning a fire arm in the US so vital for exactly democracy (freedom)?

The American view on democracy and freedom is double standard.



EDIT. Conclusion: I dont think the US even know the first thing about establishing peace/freedom. Because they don't know what peace/freedom is.

EDIT: Personally i think that is true. Seeing how the majority of Americans complain about their own freedom and democracy.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66
Personally i believe the Iraqi should be able to walk freely within their own country without being judged friend or foe by the invasion force. The people who shouldn't have the right to do what ever they want within Iraq is the invasion force.

Personally i dont believe the Invasion force is cut out to do this peace mission. Because, with the mentality and strategy they show and support, creates distrust among the Iraqi people. Iraq is only a war zone because the invasion force is creating it.

If it is against democracy to own firearms in Iraq. Then why is owning a fire arm in the US so vital for exactly democracy (freedom)?

The American view on democracy and freedom is double standard.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

They are allowed one AK per household. Your ignorance on this subject is obvious. The helicopter was supporting a ground element that was attacked. That is why they were looking for hostiles.
Now the US forces are not even in the cities anymore. Peace is happening and the building has begun. A group of people walking around during a battle with AKs are legitimate targets and fit the ROE. As I have stated before not all insurgents are going to carry weapons, because they act as spotters.
The journalist should have been wearing their issued flak jackets and helmets. This never would have happened if they had that on.
The reason the military wouldn’t release this video is because most people don’t understand what is going on and why the events happened like they did.
Nobody mentions how the US soldiers carried the wounded children away and who both survived. I don’t agree with what happened but I understand why it happened. If the journalist took more care of their appearance they would still be alive.
They decided to forgo their issued gear that shows they are journalist. They decided to walk with people carrying AKs in a hostile area. The pilots followed the ROE and they were not wrong in their decision to fire.
You know insurgents also carry cameras to record their attacks? Most of the killing and violence was because of sectarian issues started by Saddam. Do some research please.

Iraq just voted and violence is falling. The US set up an effective Iraqi army and police force. So we do know about peace. No other country could have done what the US did and fix that country.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by eikmun]

Originally posted by eikmun

Originally posted by spy66
Personally i believe the Iraqi should be able to walk freely within their own country without being judged friend or foe by the invasion force. The people who shouldn't have the right to do what ever they want within Iraq is the invasion force.

Personally i dont believe the Invasion force is cut out to do this peace mission. Because, with the mentality and strategy they show and support, creates distrust among the Iraqi people. Iraq is only a war zone because the invasion force is creating it.

If it is against democracy to own firearms in Iraq. Then why is owning a fire arm in the US so vital for exactly democracy (freedom)?

The American view on democracy and freedom is double standard.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

They are allowed one AK per household. Your ignorance on this subject is obvious. The helicopter was supporting a ground element that was attacked. That is why they were looking for hostiles.
Now the US forces are not even in the cities anymore. Peace is happening and the building has begun. A group of people walking around during a battle with AKs are legitimate targets and fit the ROE. As I have stated before not all insurgents are going to carry weapons, because they act as spotters.
The journalist should have been wearing their issued flak jackets and helmets. This never would have happened if they had that on.
The reason the military wouldn’t release this video is because most people don’t understand what is going on and why the events happened like they did.
Nobody mentions how the US soldiers carried the wounded children away and who both survived. I don’t agree with what happened but I understand why it happened. If the journalist took more care of their appearance they would still be alive.
They decided to forgo their issued gear that shows they are journalist. They decided to walk with people carrying AKs in a hostile area. The pilots followed the ROE and they were not wrong in their decision to fire.
You know insurgents also carry cameras to record their attacks? Most of the killing and violence was because of sectarian issues started by Saddam. Do some research please.

No. Your ignorance is very clear. You dont understand why there is a war zone in Iraq at all.

And way the go on you peace keeping dude. I bet that is going just hunky Dorry for Ya. Damn slave herders. The only really free people in Iraq is the damn US army. Every Iraqi citizen better hide if they dont want to be killed by the Americans right to run Iraq as they see fit.

I think people would have a different view of this if they were "FAUX" new photo journalist...

then everybody would be skeptic, or probably wouldn't even care...

Way to think people...

reply to post by spy66


I would conjecture that you are correct in that assertion about freedom.

The US has, at an alarmingly increasing level, traded in liberty for freedom.

Given what i have read from William Sidis, i am unsure that "freedom, liberty, and democracy" was not just another Roman concession to subdue the natives of a new land.

slowly but surely those freedoms have been chiseled away.

Hm, 73+ pages of BS by a lot of people that haven't been in combat or even have the first clue about it. Typical ATS.

First of all, I cringed when they called New Baghdad a "suburb"; in many aspects it is more ghetto than Sadr City, "a complete and total s**thole infested by Iranian backed JAM" would be the best description.

The two press guys were tooling around in a crowd of insurgents. "But they were just walking casually!" is the whine from the antiwar crowd. Sure they were; it was an insurgent neighborhood! It's right next to Rt Predators, which at the time had the highest IED rate pretty much anywhere.

Sorry they got killed, but as the saying goes, "bad things happen to you when you keep bad company." It's clear that Crazyhorse was in the area in a response to TIC. The TADS on the Apache would have clearly picked up if someone was wearing a PRESS vest. No joy. Camera or not, shouldn't be walking the streets (especially that AO) with armed men and no uniforms.

(Oh, and before I forgot, has anyone spoken to Bob Woodruff about this all? You rocket scientist remember him, don't you? He was the press guy that was travelling with US troops when he was torn up by an IED; I don't see Wikileaks filing FOIA requests with the insurgents for the video of that happening.

Yeah, that's what I thought. )

The amount of stupidity being posted here is mind boggling. I didn't actually believe that people really thought like this but many seem to think that killing a bad guy is only to be done when capture or scaring them off options have been expended.

Shooting up the van was a bit iffy, but there is more than one dimension to a battle.

The parents who thought that it was "take your kids to work day" were being stupid in a "no stupid zone". And the kids were probably taken to another hospital because the CASH was overrun with IED casualities that were going off all summer. Decisions like that are based on protocols based on nationality, location and other things.

Oh well, just goes to show that the insurgents are winning the propaganda war. Most posters on this thread here are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.

So much for "deny ignorance."

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


You have been looking for an excuse to ignore me or belittle from the start ,and I know why - what I say rings true to you and it hurts.

My animosity towards America is mostly because you run around the world killing people, all in the name of "freedom and liberty" (tainted phrase by now) when we all know it's the money.

All around the world people are rising up , but not the people that are inflicting the most damage , you'd be pissed as well.

You guys have never been good at sitting down and contemplating WHY people are pissed at you or even hate you...instead you employ whatever tactic to silence your critics...accusing people of simply hating America is one of them.

And I´m feeling it.

Call it hate , I call it telling the truth from an angry perspective, and I have every right to be angry at you , and trust me mate ....I am not the only one by any stretch of the imagination. Enough with the pleasantries.

Hopefully you will someday find the courage to be a true American and take your country back.

I'm betting you won't and that´s not to be mean , I truly would not put my money on that.


Ps :Come to think of it , any kid could see that your country is in the toilet.



[edit on 7-4-2010 by Compulsionist]

Originally posted by Compulsionist
My animosity towards America is mostly because you run around the world killing people, all in the name of "freedom and liberty" (tainted phrase by now) when we all know it's the money.

Hmmm, I guess the "honeymoon with Haiti" is over now, huh? I mean, since the US doesn't do anything good in this world.
I'm betting you won't and that´s not to be mean , I truly would not put my money on that.

Originally posted by Compulsionist
Ps :Come to think of it , any kid could see that your country is in the #ter.

Whatever.

reply to post by jerico65


Thank you for acting like the typical "I've been or was in the armed forces therefore I know everything" type of user of ATS.

The shooting of the van was "a bit iffy?"

It wasn't iffy, it was outrageous.

How could that apache possibly pick out the word press if he was wearing a vest, it can't even pick out whether the men were holding weapons.

How far out was that chopper?

reply to post by jerico65


Also if you wanted to present your opinions, why couldn't you do it in a way which wasn't so brash and arrogant?

You talk about how it's mind boggling about the amount of stupidity on the thread, well what's mind boggling to me is your sheer audacity to come on here and totally disregard other people's opinions.

Originally posted by jerico65
Hm, 73+ pages of BS by a lot of people that haven't been in combat or even have the first clue about it. Typical ATS.

First of all, I cringed when they called New Baghdad a "suburb"; in many aspects it is more ghetto than Sadr City, "a complete and total s**thole infested by Iranian backed JAM" would be the best description.

Obviously someone has no clue what the word "suburb" actually means. They should hand dictionaries out to you folks along with those guns.

The two press guys were tooling around in a crowd of insurgents. "But they were just walking casually!" is the whine from the antiwar crowd. Sure they were; it was an insurgent neighborhood! It's right next to Rt Predators, which at the time had the highest IED rate pretty much anywhere.

Sorry they got killed, but as the saying goes, "bad things happen to you when you keep bad company." It's clear that Crazyhorse was in the area in a response to TIC. The TADS on the Apache would have clearly picked up if someone was wearing a PRESS vest. No joy. Camera or not, shouldn't be walking the streets (especially that AO) with armed men and no uniforms.

What video were you watching? The one I saw confused a camera for an RPG and not being fired on for being fired on and you think they would have seen the word "press" on a vest?

(Oh, and before I forgot, has anyone spoken to Bob Woodruff about this all? You rocket scientist remember him, don't you? He was the press guy that was travelling with US troops when he was torn up by an IED; I don't see Wikileaks filing FOIA requests with the insurgents for the video of that happening.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

)

That is right, why should US forces be any better than the enemy we are supposed to be fighting? That's right, if we are no better, we have no business doing anything over there. Get it?

The amount of stupidity being posted here is mind boggling.

You are telling me.

Originally posted by jerico65

Hmmm, I guess the "honeymoon with Haiti" is over now, huh? I mean, since the US doesn't do anything good in this world.

I'm betting you won't and that´s not to be mean , I truly would not put my money on that.

Yeah, you would think that after the US went to all the trouble to have churches go and kidnap children and try to steal them from their families, people would totally rally around every American that shoots a van with kids in it!

[edit on 7-4-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by jerico65


Why does some think that only people that has seen combat can see the difference between right and wrong in this case?

Why cant a common citizen be allowed to have a objective opinion about this tragic event, Why shouldn't it count?

A Different way of looking at it!
Well I've watched this thread unfold, lets put things straight........
Firstly the journalists went to the corner pointing there ZOOM lens down to what ever target there was down that street while the guy with the RPG behind them prepared. THE JOURNALIST WAS THE SPOTTER....they perceived the Apache as too far to be a threat..........The journalist then would have of been replaced by the guy with the RPG once the target was confirmed by the considerable lens on the journalists camera...Reuters journalists seemed to be sponsoring terrorism they were actively helping people seeking to MURDER!!!
The mini-van seeing the carnage maybe the adults in that van knew the Combatants and proceeded to help A FOOLISH THING TO DO WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR CHILDREN IN YOUR VEHICLE, but although not totally involved they must have known who they were.
I FEEL SORRY FOR THE INNOCENTS IN THIS - THE CHILDREN.

REUTERS SHAME IS ON YOU !!

As for the cavalier attitude of the US Pilots/Gunners it is in the history. A distancing from the act. It has been written through time by all colours, creeds and all nations a kind of primal battle rush....It seems to be the yoke of the human race.....I pray for the dead and those that have to live with it and hope that one day we can ditch the yoke forever.

www.sacred-texts.com...

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 7-4-2010 by DreamerOracle]

[edit on 7-4-2010 by DreamerOracle]

reply to post by DreamerOracle


Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

Please.....

What an amazingly polarizing thread. Video taken as is without context is horrifying, which seems to be everyone's knee jerk reaction in wanting to string up the chopper pilot and gunner for a military warzone mistake. Some of the same people who bash others for being ignorant to all the facts in other threads. Simply astounding how the mob mentality works.

Now given the context of that situation, its (the actions taken by the American military) a little more understandable. But I guess those can be disregarded because the action speaks louder than the situation that set up the action.

The heart of this matter is the American DoD cover-up of a bad kill. This was not a group of renegade soldiers in a war machine randomly killing whoever. They were a cover force responding to a hot zone and were assessing a possible hostile situation to which they gained full clearance to engage. Sometimes you have to step away from the raging emotional torrent in viewing something horrible and review the entire story and not just the climax. I think that goes with the whole deny ignorance thing eh?

reply to post by Unnoan


How exactly was it a mistake?

How were they being hostile?

They weren't.

You can't call the killing of those people who turned up in the van a mistake. It was deliberate. Then the whole thing was covered up.

No mistake whatsoever.

Listen to the transcript. They don't even care that children have been killed.

Originally posted by Unnoan
They were a cover force responding to a hot zone and were assessing a possible hostile situation to which they gained full clearance to engage.

What was that clearance based on, exactly?

Clearance to engage was given because of what the Gunship reported. The Gunship would never have been given clearance to engage the crowd if the pilot didn't report a aggressive crowd with RPG and AK-47.

The pilot initiated the whole thing deliberately. By describing a situation that was far from the real thing. That is very clear when the Van shows up. The pilot pretty much bagged for permission to shoot.