The Tea Party Is Over - The conspiracy to kill a grass roots political movement

you seem to be a little misinformed on the people who keep the 'tea party' going...sorry to burst your bubble but its powered by the top conservative lobbyists...

look into it

reply to post by Miraj


Why was it completely destroyed by Beck and FOX? They were the only ones not demonizing them. Beck attacks the r's as much as he does the d's all of the time on all subjects. The liberal MSM was and still is calling them every vile name in the book. And now the d's are bring out the old and tired racist BS. I do not like nor trust the established parties much at all but being a conservative and/or libertarian I thoroughly despise the libs.

I too agree that this movement was a great thing for the short time it lasted and I had hoped it would remain independent but when the libs and the d's began excoriating it the establishment r's moved in to co-opt it. BUT...that doesn't mean that the movement will fade away forever. It could just change faces. Maybe previously gelded sheeple can grow them again!!! One can only hope because I believe they are our only salvation as a funtional republic.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Well I agree with you for the most part...

But I still hold that the TEA party was ultimately not a threat to the GOP or the two party system. I also still hold that it was a gift to a party that could have a "third party"
do the leg work and serve as a cover for ideological refuge while the public forget about all the success of the last decade.

The tea party was so easily assimilated because it had a platform that the GOP could adopt, platform based upon platitude and patriotic language, not policy. As a tactician
I saw this coming LONG LONG ago, zero threat, all pay out. It was only a matter of time before the language and message melded... Thats my take, I just disagree that this was ever a threat to TPTB, structurally, rhetorically...

NOW if you had a movement that gathered from the "right and left" well spring of ideas
I would say, TPTB has a BIG problem.

Originally posted by GrampsLEn
reply to post by Miraj

 

I too agree that this movement was a great thing for the short time it lasted and I had hoped it would remain independent but when the libs and the d's began excoriating it the establishment r's moved in to co-opt it. .

Wrong IMHO

"you" are not taking even a shred of responsibility or attempting to learn for the future.
The Libs would not have had grounds to excoriate the movement if TTPM would have taken a stand against the radical factions who behaved and sounded very much like the GOP. TTPM did not make a stand and excoriate those members who would reduce the
image and rhetoric to basic, guttural two party yammer. NOT standing upon the principle of conduct above the standards of D's and R's was controllable and would have made much difference.

to all: I see few if any "post-partisan revolutionary" types who are willing to discuss this matter or acknowledge this thread with any commentary, confirmations or denials.

Plainly put, the cat has been out of the bag for a while, what will be different about the GOP platform now that your interests are being represented by the party?

edit:You know, reading this I sound confrontational, I am in fact eager to finally be able to discuss this with a principle free of pretense.





[edit on 3-4-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 3-4-2010 by Janky Red]

I remember during the 2009 tax day thing when people were thanking fox news over and over for making it big, covering it and promoting it, etc etc...it was bringing in droves of confused republicans...etc.

The initial view of the tea party was extremely pissy about the AIG bailout/too big to fail nonsense overall which flew in the face of capitilism and kept propped up monster banks running the country. Of course this initially started under Bush, but nevermind that...by the time tax day rolled around, people were well fed up by it all. At this moment it was a bipartisan movement (libs...not big fans of mega banks)...the moment Fox rolled in and laid claim to it as a right wing anti obama movement is when things went south.

before that time, liberals were on board as much as conservatives. liberals are not a party of "hey, lets go broke"...they are the party of wanting tax dollars to work for the little man verses the giant corps and regulate the giants so capitalism doesn't turn into corporatism.
Once the neocons moved in, the libs moved out.

The biggest blow to the tea party was when it moved onto health care and corporate interests started propping it up. Large insurange companys starting pseduo grass roots movements to oppose health care, Fox news holding hands with said corporations, high profile neocon conservatives basically labelling the tea party the GOP under a different name and proudly labelling themselves as tea partiers. Then of course every other talking point started to be pushed into the party...anti-abortion, religion, etc etc etc...meh...whatever.

As far as a new movement...ROAR...or whatever else pops up...any anger group...expect for it to be immediately adopted by whomever is not in power...the minority will always scoop up and push forward angry groups that have a local face on it. Expect also for the complete corruption.

Since when do the libs need grounds for attacks? What has the Tea Party done to deserve such villification--which began since day one?

I do not defend either of the establishment parties. I find them both to be nothing more than a co-option of the US nation. BUT--this could not happen without the blessing of the sheeple. This is our republic's great tragedy.

Honestly I never saw the Tea Party as anything else besides an anti-Obama group.

No one really ever knew what they were protesting...they had no theme. Some had vague concepts such as "less government", "fewer taxes", "more freedom"...and then the fear mongering ones "no socialism", "stop killing the constitution", "stop stealing my rights", Obama as the joker, Obama as Hitler, Obama as Stalin.

The last group of signs was all Hannity, Beck, Rush and Palin needed to latch onto them. They saw it as I did...an anti-Obama group with no good message. Well...they gave them a message...the problem was that they implicated republicans as well as democrats in their rantings. At that point it didn't matter...as long as it was negative towards Obama.

And please note...when I say Bech, Hannity, Rush and Palin...I'm more refering to the "machine" that is behind them and directing the propaganda they spew and not so much them as individuals...but they have been the poster kids for the Tea Party. Anyway...back to my rant.

At some point down the road...these Tea Party protestors started to believe the lines fed to them by Beck, Hannity, Rush, and Palin. And IMO...that is when they started to be a forceful "grassroots movement" (doesn't last long tho). So they started to think..."hey...we have some power here"...and that Beck, Hannity, Rush and Palin are right...BOTH PARTIES ARE BAD. So they started backing candidates that weren't the main republican candidate. They started to put up their own candidates. And it was around this point that Beck, Hannity, Rush and Palin (I'm sure not them personally...but their puppet masters.) thought...oh crap...we could be dividing our base. What would happen if the Tea Parties ran their own candidate as a third party in each election in 2010??? Dems would win almost every election. What happens if they run a presidential candidate in 2012??? Obama wins almost by default.

So...what do they do...they change the message from "corrupt politicians" to "dangerous progressives". And they also sent out Palin to directly tell them "You must choose a party". They start hitting hard on every single little thing Dems do...even if it has been done forever by Republicans. They push the "dangerous progressive" angle for every little thing they can find.

From that point on...the Tea Party has just become a sub-section of the GOP. I bet they even get a special group invitation to the RNC convention...to accept their ideas and "candidates".


It was all orchestrated by Fox News and talk show hosts. I believe some Fox analyst was the first to use Tea Bags on air saying it was time for a tea party. I never saw it as a "grassroots movement" UNTIL Fox News and friends almost lost control of them AFTER they riled them up. But that didn't happen...they quickly shut that down by using fear of splitting the base and letting the "dangerous progressives" to win.

So I don't think this could of ever succedded...it started as an anti-Obama movement...so the only place they had to go is exactly where they ended up...right into the republicans open arms...which is probably where they came from in the first place. It's like little kids trying to revolt against their parents and running away...and then running back home when they find out they can't survive on their own.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

This thread itself has become a microcosm of the American political discourse, which is inherently poisoned and desiccated. Just extending one of the excellent points made by the OP and several subsequent posts, it's disheartening to watch the way any dialogue descends just as low as it can go, just as quickly as it can go, into a recitation of partisan talking points.

The sum total of the American politcal landscape is a bleak wasteland haunted by the gaudy shrieks of an eterntally touring freak show of gaudy, versicolored harlequins whipping strawmen and burning them in effigy. The con job is so complete, the two self-selecting tribes so insular, that the footsoldiers never even notice what the other side is actually saying, they only notice what their own icons of vanity *say* the other side is saying.

Soi disant liberals and soi disant conservatives can't even have conversations with each other. They only recite monologues to each other, rebutting the most watered down possible forms of arguments the other side might have made five years ago. Then they shake their fists, roll their eyes, and say "There's no reasoning with those people." Well, there's no effort to reason. There is only the show, the mis en place, and all the actors had better stay on script, please, or be led off the stage.

There is no possibility of coming together because consensus reality has been fractured. This has not been accidental. There is only safety in the two tribes, and anyone who has the timerity and the reckless audacity to criticize both tribes at the same time will be hit from both sides.

There is this script. And within that script there are parts for two competing croaking choruses. No improvisation, please. Anyone offscript will quickly be offstage.

Just so we are all on the same page, when I talk about these shabby little actors playing their bit roles, I'm talking about your heroes, too. Palin. Paul. Kucinich. Huckabee. Alex Jones. I can't think of anyone on the stage right now who isn't playing their part, and hitting every line like their life depends on it.

No, I don't have any suggestions. I don't even talk about politics much because I don't see the point. All I have is an absolute certainty of betrayal, the conviction that once, maybe long ago, the game was given away and the world was sold. The only suggestion I have: The next time you find yourself in the position of cheerleader for whichever tribe you identify with, and you're yelling slogans at some self-identified cheerleader for the other tribe, please remember, you're both being absolute schmucks.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

The conspiracy is the collusion of the media and both "parties" to demonize and destroy an "unauthorized" grass roots political movement.

You know, I used to think the same thing ...

It was my impression from the very beginning that whomever is pulling the strings, making sure they do everything within their power to retain the two sided coin (two party system) in their pocket, was never going to allow the TPM to flourish.

After all the thought of it fits neatly into the conspiratorial "hidden hand" mindset ...

But my impression is changing in this regard. In fact with the clarity that distance bestows, I think something a lot less overt has been taking place. Less overt but in many ways much more sinister.

Though it is counterintuitive to conspiratorial skepticism and cynicism I believe it is the exact opposite that's happened, and that this in fact is one of those situations defined, and ultimately doomed by the absence of conspiracy.

A lot of folks seem to have a sentimental "those were the good old days before it was corrupted and infiltrated" view of the TPM. As if we're talking about something that happened eons ago. When in fact those "good old days" never existed other than in the romanticized and conceptualized mind of those who embrace its core ideals ... more important, those who crave anything but what is and are frustrated to the bone by having to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Truth is those days never existed.

The TPM from the very beginning was a scattered, poly-ideological, multi-intentional group of folks defined only by their mutual and shared discontent with the status quo. That discontent is what unites/united them, not a remedy. They didn't/don't have a leader, for the premise was protest not solutions. There were folks with the most virtuous of intents and folks with nothing but hate in their heart. But most of all anyone with some grievance, real or perceived, towards the government could feel a part of it.

For all of these reasons and more, the whole thing was doomed from the very beginning, and no conspiracy by the so called "ptb" was ever required. Sure there are smaller obvious subsequent conspiracies by the GOP, Palin, FOX, birthers, the klan, self proclaimed patriots, pundits, constitutional scholars du jour, and many others to use the TPM to their own ends ... but the reason for this fundamental vulnerability to be subverted is rooted in what I stated above ...

Namely that "Movement" was and is a misnomer.

It was at bast a sentiment, and an important one at that, for the reason for its manifestation shouldn't be lost, I am sure isn't lost, on the aforementioned string pullers.

But in this case imho they had little to do with the TPM'S demise ... all that was required was to sit back and wait for it to tear itself apart at the seams grasping for a common goal and a unified way forward. Something that was simply never going to happen.

Conspiracies are to destroy ambition ... the TPM never had one, they existed to resist not to create.

Blasphemous as it may be for a CT to contemplate, I think they did this to themselves.

EFSpelling

[edit on 3 Apr 2010 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


No. I forget the guy's name (too tired to look it up) but it was a suggestion of an options trader in Chicago in February of '09 after Obama passed the emergency stimulus bill. He delivered a tirade to CNN saying that people should form a Tea Party movement.

At any rate my prediction is that the villification of the members is just making them more determined, maybe not as a movement since they are being co-opted but individually. That could unexpectedly spell doom for the 2-party system. It is late here and I may be dreaming but one can only hope.

reply to post by Janky Red


Dead right Janky. This was the problem that I encountered when attempting to have discussions with people who supported the Tea Party. They had the same substance that Sarah Palin dishes out. Generalized terms that mean nothing without details.

There was that individual from early on in the movement who made the statement: "Tell the govt. to keep their hands off my medicare". This epitomized the movement. Many didnt even know what they were opposing. They only had these general talking points that had no depth.

Whenever I started asking questions about these points, I was never given any details.

Just as you stated:

Freedom: ok this is great, everyone loves freedom but what specifically would you change and are you prepared to deal or accept some of the potential consequences of this. Freedom is a wonderful thing but it requires that people act with some sort of responsibility and many have shown they cannot. Does freedom mean no more laws that infringe upon individuals?

Many of the people who supported the tea party would make statements like, "I want the govt out of my business" but many were opposed to gay rights. Or

Smaller govt: Ok that sounds good too but is that all govts or just the federal govt. Are they ok with active state govt.? Do many of them realize that if we shrink and limit the federal govt, one potential side effect will be states moving in very different directions. If we remove federal law and allow for more state rights, we will see more states legalizing many things that are currently illegal. And vice versus, we will see some states moving towards outlawing certain things. Nevada and California will have legal drugs and prostitution and Kansas will ban being gay and be teaching creationism in school.

We would basically see the US become much more diverse in many ways but this could result in succession and the potential to dissolve what we now consider the United States, we would essentially become The Divided States of America. Texas could succeed and become its own country.


I am all for a move to more diversity among our political options. I would love it if there were no restrictions for running for office. I think there should be tight controls on elections finance.

Politics should NOT be a career, it should be a public service. A selfless low paying position. This is what it is supposed to be.

But many in govt have turned it into a business and a career and then the only goal becomes securing their own interests.


Great thread and a discussion must be had.

ok, so can i get this right, just cause hannidy,beck and fox, is selling themselves out, you know are against the tea party movement??? you kidding me sight owner? lol, been reading everything that you have said for quit some time with the dems and reps being the same group, knowing that both parties are both full of shizzle! but now i see you sailing the tea party movement which has taken fold and is now pissed and you are selling it down the river persay? sorry kick me off, but hey give some credit where credit is due?

Actually the original Tea Party Movement was started by the Ron Paul folks back in 2007 www.youtube.com...

As soon as Beck tried to tack credit for it they quickly left and have been motoring on in grassroots efforts ever since.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
you know are against the tea party movement?

I never said any such thing.

But it's dead. It's difficult to be for or against something that is dead and ineffective.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


hey outkast can i ask you one thing? what side of the testicle do you like the left or the right as obams has desicrated this country in less time it took me to take a plumbing license test! so again, plz tell me what has obama done for you as i see you being either a troll or some kind of follower! so plz tell me what your lord and guide has done for you as i really need to know cause sitting on this side of the chess board you kinda make me sick, actually way sick, give me a reason?

[edit on 3-4-2010 by allprowolfy]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


totally agree with you sight owner, but hey there has got to be a bit of hope right? the tea party movement is the only thing we have right now right? what else is there lounge lizards sitting at there desk? not to kiss your ass i have agreed on many of your points, but we the people need to kick this into 3rd gear, even if it takes a tea party, nicotine party, alcohol party, what the hell ever, to get everyone to figure things out right?

I'm Crossposting

Same theme, kinda. Daves post about Dick Armey running FreedomWorks.

Crosspost with substance...

Gotta believe in what's right. Cynicism is pure evil.

It depletes the soul of all that's good.

Your cup hath a hole in the bottom and that doth not make you holy.



Your cup will never runneth over otherwise unless you plug the hole of cynicism.

I don't hear no Fat Lady singing. Hannity ain't no fat lady. He doesn't lead me.

Having Bachmann, Hannity, Palin & Pawlety in the twin cities next week is drawing me there like no other names (but perhaps Ron Paul could.)

Wish Ron Paul was attending too.


[edit on 4·3·10 by DrMattMaddix]

Like I like to do a lot, I want to turn to history as a guide.

A disloyal portion of the American people have during the whole year been engaged in an attempt to divide and destroy the Union. A nation which endures factious domestic division is exposed to disrespect abroad, and one party, if not both, is sure sooner or later to invoke foreign intervention.

Sound familiar to anyone?

The disloyal citizens of the United States who have offered the ruin of our country in return for the aid and comfort which they have invoked abroad have received less patronage and encouragement than they probably expected. If it were just to suppose, as the insurgents have seemed to assume, that foreign nations in this case, discarding all moral, social, and treaty obligations, would act solely and selfishly for the most speedy restoration of commerce, including especially the acquisition of cotton, those nations appear as yet not to have seen their way to their object more directly or clearly through the destruction than through the preservation of the Union. If we could dare to believe that foreign nations are actuated by no higher principle than this, I am quite sure a sound argument could be made to show them that they can reach their aim more readily and easily by aiding to crush this rebellion than by giving encouragement to it.

www.infoplease.com...

Anyone starting to see a reoccurring theme here? This was Lincoln's first State of the Union Speech. I believe that the above portions apply today just as well as they applied back in 1861

Another quote that works quite well in this area is...

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

But that is what the United States is, it is a house divided against itself. It makes me wonder, are these threats really based in the US, or are these people being influenced and even in some instances supported by outside interests including the CFR.

Strange Bedfellows – Idaho Tea Party Speaker Ron Nilson Joins with the Vice Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations in New York to Support Special Interest Candidate

Interesting times indeed.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by allprowolfy
you know are against the tea party movement?

I never said any such thing.

But it's dead. It's difficult to be for or against something that is dead and ineffective.

Its true, but it is still a very effective concept to use for promotional considerations only.
In politics Marketing is god, there is no reason to acknowledge the deceased.
Plainly and flatly I believe this thread is being short sold because to openly confirm this fact would kill a great ally, for now the death is just "speculation". This not a charge out of spite, but an observation based upon apparent calculations. Death is not an option...

reply to post by Janky Red


hey when you running for pres as you sit on the fence pole per say! dont take the left or right< but stay right in the middle? lol kkk!