No Plane Hit The World Trade Center On 9/11

Originally posted by weedwhacker

whats a shame is that you can't understand the implications and significance of contradictory footage.

I typed everything in plain English.

It was quite clear, and not open to interpretation....

thats your OPINION...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
in the case, both times, the B-767s were in shallow dives to build up the speeds we ultimately saw, because it's true, in LEVEL FLIGHT, even with throttles maxed, airplane won't accelerate to those velocities, they need gravity assist.

....it's difficult for non-pilots to comprehend, I guess....but let me tell ou some real-world, real-life (mine) examples.

In NORMAL airline flying naturally we descend, from cruise, as we approach an airport. There are often many ATC requirements, regarding speed restrictions, and altitude restrictions. I'll discuss ALTITUDE restrictions firstly.

In a perfect world, knowing the restrictions ahead, we can decide where to initiate descent...before computers, we could rough-estimate in our heads...nowadays, the FMS software will compute a Top Of Descent point, depending on the speed profile you program into it.

Of course, in busy airspace, with traffic conflicts, ATC may give a rather late clearance to begin descent. We can adapt. In some cases, we just request a deviance from the restriction.

But anyway, my point is...even with engines at Flight Idle, in a clean configuration descent it IS possible to get right up to the VMO airspeeds, and have to be careful not to exceed. And it doesn't require any extreme nose-down attitude, nothing the passengers would notice. Now, imagine we ADDED full thrust, as well!

So, from outside, it still would look "shallow"....people seem to have the crazy notion of some extreme attitude, and it just isn't so.

Take a look at the video re-creation of American 77, at the pentagon, for example. If I recall (and hard to tell, depending on computer monitor resolution) I saw a very minor nose-down attitude...no more than 5-6 degrees....speed builds up very quickly.

once again, nothing you've said and rambled on about addresses the actual evidence or scenario, nor does it answer, debunk, disprove or prove anything and one doesn't have to have any knowledge in aviation to see why your argument fails.

yawn.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SphinxMontreal

 

What?

I think it was to you, I suggested some months ago, if you wanted to understand better to get some money and go take a flying lesson.

Would do wonders for your comprehension.

Still, I see the lie and red herring of "non-skilled Arab pilots" is alive and well....

They had several hundred hours' each...that's sufficient for what they had to do. Combined with hours in the simulators, too. REAL simulators, not the desk-top kind that people play with at home.

your response again doesn't address, refute or disprove any of the actual evidence and experts that have explained in detail why such maneuvers would have been impossible in the conditions and scenario on 9/11.

Would be valid evidence against NPT imho. Can you link sources?

- Create false identities for all of the plane victims
SOURCE en.wikipedia.org...

- Create false flight logs and flight info for the planes
SOURCE 911research.wtc7.net...
SOURCE www.usatoday.com...

- Bribe the airlines into confirming the fake flight longs and flight info
(I can't cite a source of the airlines claiming the info that was published was fake becuase they didn't say it therefore for the NPT theory to be true they were bribed)

- Create fake family members who have confirmed the takeoff of the airplane and the death of faimly members
SOURCE www.usatoday.com...

- Create fake DNA and dental records used to identify some of the people who were on the planes
SOURCE www.dmort.org...

- Keep everyone involved in all of the above silent about the murder of thousands of innocent civillians
(no one has come forward saying they were involved so I can't cite a source for this)

there you go:valid evidence against NPT"

Originally posted by oxbow
Does anybody else believe that alien technology was involved in this? I do, only they would have had the technology to create such perfect real-time holograms. It's all part of the setup for the NWO in my opinion.

anythings possible and i don't rule it out at this point, but other than whats known about current halo-tech and research by Judy Wood on unknown advanced tech energy sources, any speculation on alien tech is imo difficult to argue at all at this time...

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by Orion7911

 

It's really ironic that you can accuse me of not addressing your whole post, when your initial reply to me didn't cover the crux of my argument at all. Indeed you didn't - and still don't, despite your protestations - answer my question.

i have addressed and answered it as far as i remember... perhaps you didn't read everything i've posted in this thread that also addressed it, or maybe its because you just didn't like the answers and didn't conform to your fallacious perception of reality.

reply to post by Orion7911


If you truly wish to stand behind a statement such as this:

...once again, nothing you've said and rambled on about addresses the actual evidence or scenario, nor does it answer, debunk, disprove or prove anything and one doesn't have to have any knowledge in aviation to see why your argument fails.

....then it shows that you have no intellectual response, or counter-argument.

Anyone who is able to read what I wrote, and not comprehend it (or pretend not to, and then make such a statement as I quoted above) is either unable to understand plain English, and visualize what I described (that would apply to the non-comprehension component) OR, is deliberately resorting to obfuscation and denial tactics. (That would be where I suggest someone may pretend to not understand).

I see, BTW, no mention of my reference to the AAL 77 NTSB video recreation, in your responses.

Why?

At least THAT video has a graphic depiction that doesn't rely on my words of description...perhaps I might be able to find other examples, after a search.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's the American 77 video (we don't have the DFDRs for AAL 11 and UAL 175).

Note the airspeeds and pitch attitudes during the long ~330 degree turn.

At 2:47 in the video, you see the throttles being moved up to about midway (their positions are shown to the left of the control wheel).

At 3:05 he pushes the throttles to full power. By 3:26 he's alread at 428 knots indicated --- only 20 seconds. The nose is below the horizon, less than ten degrees (about 7, maybe 8?) Video freezes at about 3:37, note the airspeed and pitch attitude.

The AAL and UAL 767s would have been very similar profiles, in order to achieve those speeds...with full throttle.






[edit on 26 May 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Orion7911

Originally posted by oxbow
Does anybody else believe that alien technology was involved in this? I do, only they would have had the technology to create such perfect real-time holograms. It's all part of the setup for the NWO in my opinion.

anythings possible and i don't rule it out at this point, but other than whats known about current halo-tech and research by Judy Wood on unknown advanced tech energy sources, any speculation on alien tech is imo difficult to argue at all at this time...

Yes anything is possible! Superman could be real and have done it! He was just flying so fast no one saw him! It's not about possible and impossible. It's about if you think option A, B or C is more PROBABLE.

Option A:

- Fake videos of planes on multiple broadcasts in real time
- Fake videos of planes on multiple videos obtained by civillians
- Fool thousands of eye witnesses that they are seeing planes
- Create false identities for all of the plane victims
- Create false flight logs and flight info for the planes
- Bribe the airlines into confirming the fake flight logs and flight info
- Create fake family members who have confirmed the takeoff of the airplane and the death of faimly members
- Create fake phone calls from people on the planes to their family
- Create fake DNA and dental records used to identify some of the people who were on the planes
- Keep everyone involved in all of the above silent about the murder of thousands of innocent civillians


Option B:

-put some videos on youtube explaining why the planes were not real

Option C:

-superman (LOOK! up in the sky it's a bird! It's a PLANE! No it's superman!) is real and he moved so fast he looked just like an airplane.


One of those scenarios is HIGHLY probable. Can you guess which one it is?

Originally posted by iamcpc

Originally posted by warisover

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

This series, "September Clues" has been posted over and over, been debunked over and over

How do you debunk logic and common sense?

You don't debunk logic and common sense. Here is the logic and common sense. Please debunk it.

Option A:

- Fake videos of planes on multiple broadcasts in real time
- Fake videos of planes on multiple videos obtained by civillians
- Fool thousands of eye witnesses that they are seeing planes
- Create false identities for all of the plane victims
- Create false flight logs and flight info for the planes
- Bribe the airlines into confirming the fake flight longs and flight info
- Create fake family members who have confirmed the takeoff of the airplane and the death of faimly members
- Create fake phone calls from people on the planes to their family
- Create fake DNA and dental records used to identify some of the people who were on the planes
- Keep everyone involved in all of the above silent about the murder of thousands of innocent civillians

Option B: -put some videos on youtube explaining why the planes were not real

i think kybertech very effectively shredded your argument line by line.

i suggest you do some real research this time to prevent further mistakes and assumptions that there is no explanation and evidence against what you've claimed and re-think your logic cos it hasn't served you very well so far.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by Orion7911]

Originally posted by iamcpc

Option A:

- Fake videos of planes on multiple broadcasts in real time
- Fake videos of planes on multiple videos obtained by civillians
- Fool thousands of eye witnesses that they are seeing planes
- Create false identities for all of the plane victims
- Create false flight logs and flight info for the planes
- Bribe the airlines into confirming the fake flight longs and flight info
- Create fake family members who have confirmed the takeoff of the airplane and the death of faimly members
- Create fake phone calls from people on the planes to their family
- Create fake DNA and dental records used to identify some of the people who were on the planes
- Keep everyone involved in all of the above silent about the murder of thousands of innocent civillians

Option B: -put some videos on youtube explaining why the planes were not real

Originally posted by Orion7911
i think kybertech very effectively shredded your argument line by line.

i suggest you do some real research this time to prevent further mistakes and assumptions that there is no explanation and evidence against what you've claimed and re-think your logic cos it hasn't served you very well so far.

Care to cite your source that "shredded" my point that a lot of things would have to have been done for the NPT to be true?

I can't help but notice that you didn't explain which option would be easier, involve much less people, and be more probable.


[edit on 26-5-2010 by iamcpc]

Originally posted by iamcpc

Care to cite your source that "shredded" my point that a lot of things would have to have been done for the NPT to be true?

I can't help but notice that you didn't explain which option would be easier, involve much less people, and be more probable.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by iamcpc]

There's many other sources that shred your argument, but for now I'm just citing the answers in kypertechs response to you, which btw, you haven't refuted or presented any counter-argument to. LOL

Originally posted by Orion7911
The only response and evidence i need to link to is this source that effectively explains, answers and further disproves your argument is this...

www.youtube.com...

The video starts off quoting the NTSB report and then goes on to apply its own conclusion that EA990 broke up in flight. That conclusion is not that of the NTSB report.

I think that says alot about the video, don't you?

You asked for a link to Rob Balsamo's comments

Here they are on the pilots for 9/11 truth forum

You'll note he says this

He was merely pointing out that when an aircraft exceeds such limitations, it does not immediately fall out of the sky and he is correct. Vne/Vmo/Mmo are limitations set by the manufacturer with a safety margin built in. Actual structural failure speeds can only be obtained from the manufacturer wind tunnel testing which we have been trying to gain access t such data with not much success to date.

Maybe you'd like to take the issue up with him - or maybe he explained it to you already?

reply to post by _BoneZ_


buildings do not fall into there own footprint and jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. Thats enough proof for me.

Originally posted by Orion7911

Originally posted by iamcpc

Care to cite your source that "shredded" my point that a lot of things would have to have been done for the NPT to be true?

I can't help but notice that you didn't explain which option would be easier, involve much less people, and be more probable.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by iamcpc]

There's many other sources that shred your argument, but for now I'm just citing the answers in kypertechs response to you, which btw, you haven't refuted or presented any counter-argument to. LOL

First off i'm not arguing. I'm asking a question. A question that you still have yet to answer. You also have yet to cite a source. Again, I will refuse to argue and just ask one question.

Which of these following options which offer an explination for the NPT are most likely to be true?

Option A:

- Fake videos of planes on multiple broadcasts in real time
- Fake videos of planes on multiple videos obtained by civillians
- Fool thousands of eye witnesses that they are seeing planes
- Create false identities for all of the plane victims
- Create false flight logs and flight info for the planes
- Bribe the airlines into confirming the fake flight logs and flight info
- Create fake family members who have confirmed the takeoff of the airplane and the death of faimly members
- Create fake phone calls from people on the planes to their family
- Create fake DNA and dental records used to identify some of the people who were on the planes
- Keep everyone involved in all of the above silent about the murder of thousands of innocent civillians


Option B:

-someone put some videos on youtube explaining why the planes were not real

Option C:

-superman (LOOK! up in the sky it's a bird! It's a PLANE! No it's superman!) is real and he moved so fast he looked just like an airplane.



I know you're going to respond. I'm betting you won't cite a source that says that option A is more likely than option B or option C. I'm also betting that you won't pick which one is most likely. I'll even give you a hint. It's not option C.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by iamcpc]

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Such a conspiracy is impossible. You're in the realm of They Live, which is good entertainment but to all practical purposes not something that could ever really happen.

You've got it all wrong...
media.abovetopsecret.com...
....too bad its the other way around.

Think of it this way: You all remember what you have done the moment you recived the information of the attack. On that basis it would be possible to extract quite a substantial chunk of information from the real world.

Originally posted by iamcpc
there you go:valid evidence against NPT"

Thx for the effort, lets see if everything is clearly traceable to the original research...

reply to post by gamma 49


And you base your conclusions there on.....?

9/11 is the rule. It is not the exception to the rule.

Prior to 9/11 no one had flown two airliners at speed into the side of the twin towers deliberately, and therefore no one knew what would happen if they did.

reply to post by neformore

John lear say's there is no way those men flying had the experience to pull this off, even as many years flying experience john has he said there is no way he could pull it off. I think you give these people way to much credit.

Originally posted by kybertech

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by iamcpc
there you go:valid evidence against NPT"

Thx for the effort, lets see if everything is clearly traceable to the original research...

That my original research. All of those sources (and many more) must either be paid to lie or part of the conspiracy. then it all boils down to which is more likely:
Option A:

- Fake videos of planes on multiple broadcasts in real time
- Fake videos of planes on multiple videos obtained by civillians
- Fool thousands of eye witnesses that they are seeing planes
- Create false identities for all of the plane victims
- Create false flight logs and flight info for the planes
- Bribe the airlines into confirming the fake flight logs and flight info
- Create fake family members who have confirmed the takeoff of the airplane and the death of faimly members
- Create fake phone calls from people on the planes to their family
- Create fake DNA and dental records used to identify some of the people who were on the planes
- Keep everyone involved in all of the above silent about the murder of thousands of innocent civillians


Option B:

-someone put some videos on youtube explaining why the planes were not real

Option C:

-superman (LOOK! up in the sky it's a bird! It's a PLANE! No it's superman!) is real and he moved so fast he looked just like an airplane.


[edit on 26-5-2010 by iamcpc]

reply to post by gamma 49

John lear say's...

...stop right there.

Capt Lear says a LOT of things...he is really quite a card. A joker.

... john has he said there is no way he could pull it off.

Capt Lear is being modest, or underestimating himself. But anyway, he HAS to say that, otherwise his initial assertions become invalid.

reply to post by kybertech


The more I sit here and think about it the more I'm leaning twoard option C.

reply to post by iamcpc


Ok, I should have made it clearer: wtc7.net for ex. provides screenshots of a flash animation with a united airlines logo based on the original passenger list containing the names and the stamps & signatures of the airport and flight personel.
I want to see a copy of that document.