Christianity is a Conspiracy; ALL of you are going to HELL

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


1 Corinthians 15:12-15
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.

If Christ has not paid for my sins, I will suffer the second death because I cannot pay for my crimes. Christ had to have paid for my sins and must have defeated death for me to have any hope of a life to come. I do not believe that we can come to an agreement on this.

Saying "Jesus" died for your sins, that his execution helped in any way one way or another is as good as condoning and supporting human sacrifice. It had no function and no relevance for you other than you coming to believe that it works. Killing a man for another or all mankind for that matter is human sacrifice and we KNOW God hates that, and he would rather die himself and leave you all in sin than condoning such practice and sacriligious doctrines. "Jesus" didn't die for for ATONEMENT of your sins, he died BECAUSE you sinned and CONTINUES to sin. As simple as that. And it's written that when he comes back he will be furious and kill off most of his followers due to their sacrilidge and lack of listening and seeing despite him showing through his servants time and time again, seventy times seven, how the Church is a beasty institution created to control the masses and spread satanic lies about how he and his servants had to and still have to die, so the cowards may live.

[edit on 3/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by okbmd


See, this is where you are in error though. Hell is the lake of fire, and it is not where you go immediately after dying. Hades is not Hell, and it IS where you go upon dying. At the judgment, all those in Hades will be resurrected and either enter into Heaven (Which is actually a Newly recreated Earth) or be thrown into the lake of fire (aka Hell) along with the temporary place of holding called Hades/Sheol.

Gehenna

Gehenna, gehinnam, or gehinnom (Hebrew: גהנום, גהנם, Greek γέεννα) are terms derived from a geographical site in Jerusalem known as the Valley of Hinnom, one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City.

Initially the site where followers of Ba'al Moloch sacrificed their children by fire (2 Chr. 28:3, 33:6; Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6), the valley later became the common wasteyard for all the refuse of Jerusalem. Here the dead bodies of animals and rubbish were cast and, according to legend, consumed by a constant fire. -From Wikipedia

The lake of fire is Gehenna. A huge trash pit constantly burning would look like what? A lake of fire. So when Yeshua describes Hell, he uses the name of a place that anyone would be familiar with had they been near Jerusalem. Gehenna, Lake of Fire, and Hell are the same.

I'm not going to argue the death part with you. There are so many "gods" of death and the afterlife and personifications of death that you could pick any one you wanted to fit your agenda in this thread. The truth of the matter is simply that death will be destroyed (meaning death will no longer happen) when it is thrown into Hell.

reply to post by Mykahel


The science of the word kills you both, because Gehenna is Gehenna and the Lake of Fire is the Lake of Fier, and Hell is Hell and Hades is Hades. When you start to mix these cultural and principlum concepts you do the stupidest thing, you turn one thing into what it is not, and that my friends is sacrilidge.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


If you ask me, calling him the perfect lamb and sacrifice for our sins is a way of relating to the Jews exactly what it was that Christ had done. Even King David knew that God did not delight in sacrifice, but would rather have obedience. He says in the psalms that he would sacrifice all that he had if he believed it was what God wanted, but he knew that God desired obedience.

I do not think that he was ritually sacrificed for my sins, but that he took the sins of the world upon himself and died there, paying for my sin. A substitute if you would. Would a parent giving up their life to save their child be human sacrifice? It would be sacrifice, yes, and in the same way that Jesus sacrificed himself. It is not a "ritual sacrifice" though as was done with the animals before the Temple was destroyed, though the Jews would understand it as such and see a strong relation.

I know that God despises human sacrifice, that is part of the reason that Gehenna is so terrible. It was a place of human sacrifice, and especially the sacrifice of innocents (children). God desires obedience, not sacrifice.

There had to be justice for the wrongs that humanity has committed. Somebody had to pay a price and Yeshau did so to the point of death.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


But one thing can have many names, just like I can be called a human, a man, a husband, or a teacher. These are all descriptions just as the lake of fire is a description.

I can also be called by my first name, my last name, my full name, a nick-name, or a version of my name in another language, and all would still hold true.

Giving the name Sheol and Hades to the abode of the dead is not problematic, it's just two names for one thing.

Calling Gehenna the lake of fire or Hell is also accurate.

reply to post by Mykahel


I DARE you to post ANYTHING at all that would substantiate your silly arguement that Gehenna ( The Valley of Hinnon ) is the lake of fire which is mentioned in Rev. 20:14-15 .

I have shown where my translations/interpretations come from ., you have shown nothing to back up your assertions.

Are you suggesting that Gehenna is burning right at this moment ? Or, are you implying that 'God' is going to set the Valley of Hinnon on fire when the time comes, and that all of the billions/trillions of people who have died that werent 'saved' are going to burn forever in the city dump right outside of Jerusalem.

And AGAIN, show me where 'lake-of-fire' is translated as 'hell' or vice-versa.

reply to post by Mykahel


I DARE you to post ANYTHING at all that would substantiate your silly arguement that Gehenna ( The Valley of Hinnon ) is the lake of fire which is mentioned in Rev. 20:14-15 .

I have shown where my translations/interpretations come from ., you have shown nothing to back up your assertions.

Are you suggesting that Gehenna is burning right at this moment ? Or, are you implying that 'God' is going to set the Valley of Hinnon on fire when the time comes, and that all of the billions/trillions of people who have died that werent 'saved' are going to burn forever in the city dump right outside of Jerusalem.

And AGAIN, show me where 'lake-of-fire' is translated as 'hell' or vice-versa.

Interesting,

I too have studied these words also. The one thing you fail to account for in your diatribe is Tartarus. There was a reason that particular word was used (2 Peter 2:4). It too is usually translated hell, but it has an entirely different meaning.

Anyhow, to your statements, Sheol would better be translated grave, so in that sense we will all see the grave so to speak.

In Christ's own words, in referring to hell, he is explaining that it is not a pleasant place. There are also places where this "noun" is called the Abyss in which a key is kept.

Anyhow, dig a bit deeper before you post things like "I passed to to many in the Church and they could not refute it", I did in about 2 minutes and yet I have not even been trained in Hebrew nor Greek.

reply to post by edsinger


So, tell me how you have refuted anything I have said on the subject? I saw nothing in you post that would indicate such.

Originally posted by okbmdSo, tell me how you have refuted anything I have said on the subject? I saw nothing in you post that would indicate such.

Well you say we all are going to hell. In that you are wrong. You might be able to claim we all will go to Sheol, but that was not your intent.

We all will not go to Hades, Tartarus, or Gehenna.

I followed your logic for a 'bait', but your data was wrong......

Just because an English Translation says Hell, you can not lump Hebrew Sheol into that large a statement.


We will all see the grave, for the wages of sin is death.

Hell, or the concept of it is an entirely different matter. Eternity spent with ones creator vs spent in total absence of your Creator's Grace is a hell all its own.

if you look around sometime you will see that this reality is both heaven and hell. we create the suffering we experience as well as the joy. Humanity is the pivot point on which good and evil play their games. if heaven and hell were wavelengths of radiation heaven being ultra violet and hell being infrared then humanity earth and this reality is white light...... and guess what we are all made up of white light. that is why nothing can travel faster than the speed of light because it is already moving at the speed of light. if it wants to travel faster than light it has to move out of the space that light inhabits and move through another space and then it would seem like its moving faster than light because it covered more ground in the same time that light would have covered if it moved in that direction.

reply to post by edsinger


How about you show something to substantiate your position instead of simply making a statement and expecting everyone to take it as gospel ? I have shown, with information that can be verified, that we are all going to 'hell' .

You, on the other hand, have given us nothing other than your personal position on this matter., which is what christians are notorious for doing .

Tartarus is also from Greek and Roman M-Y-T-H-O-L-O-G-Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is only used ONE time in the ENTIRE Bible. Why do you suppose ?

I had intended to elaborate on Tartarus in a subsequent thread, but you are slightly forcing my hand.

Tartarus is indeed a place of punishment., in MYTHOLOGY. I cannot translate the entire Bible for you all in one thread, but surely had plans to show that the 'eternal punishment' and 'judgement' themes have their roots in mythology.

In the meantime, how about showing your hand as far as refuting anything I have said., if indeed you are able.

Also, how about doing a little homework before telling me about 'lumping' Sheol into any categories.

It would make you look a lot more credible and a lot less ignorant if you would research what I say instead of simply replying to it out of a passion for your cherished mythological religion.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by okbmd]

Originally posted by okbmdHow about you show something to substantiate your position instead of simply making a statement and expecting everyone to take it as gospel ? I have shown, with information that can be verified, that we are all going to 'hell' .

What I have said can also be verified, you just have to look.

Originally posted by okbmdYou, on the other hand, have given us nothing other than your personal position on this matter., which is what christians are notorious for doing .

Ah, bash the Christians. You asked for someone to refute, so I did.

Originally posted by okbmdTartarus is also from Greek and Roman M-Y-T-H-O-L-O-G-Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And so is Hades, what is your point? Did you not see that I mentioned Tartarus for a reason? It was used instead of Hades for a reason. If you do not understand it, then you have some reading to do. I don't have time to explain it to such an expert. I mean even the 'church' people could not refute you right?

Originally posted by okbmdIt is only used ONE time in the ENTIRE Bible. Why do you suppose ?

Because of WHOM were cast there. If Hell is death as you implied, why the distinction in the Greek?

Originally posted by okbmdI had intended to elaborate on Tartarus in a subsequent thread, but you are slightly forcing my hand.

Go for it oh wise one...

Originally posted by okbmdTartarus is indeed a place of punishment., in MYTHOLOGY. I cannot translate the entire Bible for you all in one thread, but surely had plans to show that the 'eternal punishment' and 'judgement' themes have their roots in mythology.

They have their roots in Greek, therefore Greek words were used to explain a concept via the writer.

Originally posted by okbmdIn the meantime, how about showing your hand as far as refuting anything I have said., if indeed you are able.

I already did, you just don't see it.

Originally posted by okbmdAlso, how about doing a little homework before telling me about 'lumping' Sheol into any categories.

I have, do you understand the Hebrew concept of Sheol? Is it just the grave?

Originally posted by okbmdIt would make you look a lot more credible and a lot less ignorant if you would research what I say instead of simply replying to it out of a passion for your cherished mythological religion.

Credible? Ha, that is funny. Ignorant? Well in most cases that means a lack of knowledge and in this particular case I have shown that ignorant of the term Hell I am not.

So now my religion is a myth? Is that not the pot calling the kettle black? Your lack of a religion is a religion in itself.....


Cya, I have no more time for this as I must get ready for my favorite day of the year. The one in which the price for sin was PAID IN FULL. Just as He said he would, He rose from the dead.

For He is Risen! He is Risen indeed!

reply to post by Mykahel


The supposed death of Jesjuah was and still is meaningless. Instead of focusing on this godless sacrifice, and it's supposed magical implications for his followers, why not rather focus on his intellectual and philosophical legacy? I bet that if he was here at ATS right now and were to counter all the mumbo jumbo about his death being more important than his life, he qould have quoted Mark Twain, saying: "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". He's become like a flogged premium working horse: you'd rather have it's dead meat than being able to utilise it's strength and trustfullness. It's as simple as that really. Christianity has become unto me like a bad joke, and the Church is to blame. For instead of making the knowledge and wisdom, Jesjuah's timeless legacy, they messed in Latin not even the priests understood and focused on rituals and silly sacrificial meals, drinking his blood, eating his flesh, but I'd say like the Angel of the Waters in the Apocalypse, directed at Jesjuah: "They have shed the blood of your saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve." Right on I'd say.

His life is important for sure as were his teachings. Then again, his teachings were also about His death and the reasons for it.


Good Morning!

He is Risen!


He is Risen Indeed! For I know that my Redeemer Lives!

reply to post by edsinger


I'm glad you don't have time for this., because you are wearing me out with your redundant non-explanations. Most christians I know are like that though., they can't argue the point so they just say the same thing over and over and never back up what they say with anything other than the Bible or their own delusional 'jesus is gonna save me and you're going to hell if you don't believe it' fantasies.

And can you say that my non-religion is a religion in itself, and still hope to retain any form of credibility ? Please explain to me how you and all the other christians who say this ever hope to appear halfway intelligent to the rest of mankind ?

For starters, I haven't told you anything that would even remotely give you an indication as to what my 'religion' might be . But your beliefs in fairy tales and archaic mythology cause you to presuppose that I am 'without' religion simply because I don't believe in yours.

One definition of religion : a set of beliefs concerning the cause , nature , and purpose of the universe ... (3) something one believes in or follows devotedly .

So, you see here mr. wiseman , that I am not required to believe in or worhip your jesus or your bunny-rabbit or your satan clause ( oh, that was supposed to be santa ? ), in order to fall into the broad-and-vague category of religion .

According to this definition, pretty much everyone on planet earth would fall into the religious category , so don't come at me again with this same ol' tired and lame statement that apparently feels good as it slides off the tongues of you christians .

reply to post by Mykahel


You can be called many things allright, but you can only use your own name in your passport. What if we called for Jesjuah and called him instead Buddha, Krisna, Mahdi, Mytreya, Balder you name it. It's not the same, what names you use of things is not irrelevant, they are descriptive. Hell refers to the abode of the Norse goddess carrying the same name. Hades (a translating error that also) is the Greek underworld with it's river Stryx and it's four headed rabiate dog. She'ol is simply the abode of the dead. All the three former has gathered dead people since the beginning of time, no judgement needed to end there, but they contain the souls of the diseased. The Lake of Fire, contrary to the former mentioned death-kingdoms, is symbolised with Gehenna or Ben Hinnom, is a future place judement, where souls are completely destroyed never to be alive again, it's terminal, a second death burning with sulphur, the alchemical element of degeneration and utter destruction. These concepts, though the former are somewhat similar, are completely unrelated. The Norwegian word for "Hell" in the sense of "Gehenna" is Helvete: Hell-fire, which is a concept in Norse mythology, the place where goddess Hel destroyed the wicked and the cowards. Helheim itself was not terminal, but if you had been a murderer or a coward you risked being judged by Hel a second time, on her Vete: a torch or a fire. Helheim was actually quite cold, but there was an eternal fire burning there where these cowards and murderers were killed a second time, or rather over and over eternally to keep the sad and the downthrotten, the sick and the victims of the guilty -- warm and give them revenge. The Word isn't important you say, I beg to differ. If I call a serpent bread and serve you a venomous snake when you ask for bread, you'd be angry or scared I suppose.

[edit on 4/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by silo13
I'm not going to hell.

I will be seen - Just as God sees His Son, God sees me.

I'm more than that sparrow that God sees fall because Jesus carries me.

And Jesus will carry you.

It's so simple.

It's only a matter of faith... And love...

The people who try to complicate it - are either afraid, or ignorant...

And I mean that in the kindest way possible...

Peace is right there for you to reach out and take, for you, forever...

Take it...

peace

Hey, that's pride, the original deadlys sin, Wikipedia quote:

Pride Main article: Pride In almost every list Pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris, is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and indeed the ultimate source from which the others arise. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante's definition was "love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbour." In Jacob Bidermann's medieval miracle play, Cenodoxus, pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the titulary famed Parisian doctor. In perhaps the best-known example, the story of Lucifer, pride (his desire to compete with God) was what caused his fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan. In Dante's Divine Comedy, the penitents were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs to induce feelings of humility.

You are definitly going down to the nether regions frying