Gordon Brown: 'immigrants must honour British values'

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by andy1033

 

Pushing your unsubstantiated paranoia (no offense) to the side for one moment, I do see where you're coming from, somewhat.

I really don't know what British values are anymore to be honest.

That's not really his point though is it - at least not in his posts so far.

I agree with the what your 'Britishness' point, however there's an argument that within Britishness there's still some national identity for Wales and Scotland but not for England, but Andy seems to have a very fixed idea of what Britain's identity is and what it all means and represents.

Originally posted by rizla
Immigration in the UK is not about culture or colour, it is about economics. There are not enough good jobs to go round and salaries in real terms are dropping while the cost of living is rising. We have no industry anymore and we cannot live on a service economy (thanks for that Maggy).

And now we are importing cheap labour who can work for much less than our people because the currency is worth so much more in their country of origin. They stay only part of the year to avoid tax, use the welfare system without investment, and then leave the country with the money to buy a house without a mortgage in their own country.

This is something that many Daily Mail hang 'em and flog 'em readers and their ilk don't understand. I couldn't count the amount of times I've read how, "if the Poles and so on will work for this money, then why won't the lazy British?"

Many of the single men, without families here, are living in very heavily shared rented accommodation for short term periods with very little expenditure and basically act as a filter for taking money out of the country. Whereas someone living here permanently it's a different kettle of fish and they're in a system that effects them on a long term basis.

People ask why don't Brits do what the Poles and so on do, completely forgetting that many actually did in the 1980s. This isn't well-remembered but, at the time, it was understood well-enough for a massively popular TV comedy-drama series to be built on the premise: Brits working abroad on German building sites etc.

Also, completely agree with Thatcher and the service industry: it's a point I've made on here many times myself.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I ended up working in the Germany and the Swiss alps during the last recession of the 90s, the difference is that most would fall back on the UKs benifit system rather than use the Benifit system of the country they were working in.. Also a high proportion paid taxes (at least it was deducted )

There was also a surplus of work, so we were not in most cases causes social issues in the countries we were working in, and thus were welcomed for the spending power..

So for my mind there is a large difference between that to those coming here and working for £2.50 or £3.00 an hour cash in hand, which is undermining the jobs market, while claiming all the benifits available and not paying into the system that is supporting them.

I'm not going to blame to migrants, it is the employers who cause a lot of these issues by employing migrant workers for less than the legal minimum, which marries in the to Govs lax approach in controling this situation.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Empty rhetoric from a lame duck Prime Minister who isclearly prepared to do or say anything in order to get re-elected.

Brown bought into Blair's open door immigration policy which was / is part of a social engineering excercise aimed at changing the very fabric of British society.

The man is beneath contempt.

Very well put Freeborn, I agree with you entirely.

Originally posted by piedsniper
reply to post by kerrichin

 

You talking about the elderly guy that got pushed by the copper ? If so the bastards still haven't even started investigating a year later !

yeah they pushed him over and which caused a heart attack i thnk.
it was even filmed and they still do nothing

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
reply to post by Tiger5

 

name one place in england that employs enlgish people for vegetable picking??

kram09 I know of plenty people that are after jobs and will do anything to get one but yet still unemployed. i am sorry that you have a different opinion.
people aren't lazy.

now polish people say, come to england work for £3 an hr.
if english people accepted £3 an hour how would they pay their bills and live???

im one of those people, who want the jobs but got turned away because im english.
that programme made my blood boil, the makers only picked poeple that obviously didnt want the job and were lazy, why didnt they go to soe of the men and women who where made redundant.

reply to post by kerrichin


What I find stange about the Lazy tag, is that 97% of people in my county are white, and over 55% of them fall into the top 20% most deprived in the country.. so unless no one actually does any of the dirty jobs in Sussex, or white people are actually doing them.. But I guess that is not the spin this gov or the MSM puts on it.

My guess is those areas/people like mine are simply not worth reporting on, where as reporting that migrants are doing the jobs lazy Brits won't do is more media spin to put down the working classes.. Yet it is based on lies that white working class people are lazy

I know people in my neck of the woods who will only employ migrant workers becuase they can get away with paying them dreadfull wages and treat them like dirt, most of which are working while claiming benifits, here illegally etc

This is the bit that gets really neglected in the press, the real reasons employers pick migrant workers over anyone else is just for simple greed.

The MSM never focus on that greed and abuse, just on lazy Brits not wanting to do those jobs and it really does make my blood boil. When this is only more manipulation of our laws to allow the rich to get richer

reply to post by thoughtsfull



true.

unfortuantly alot of the working class now are going to the likes of the bnp, because they are preaching they will get rid of all the immigrants.

i was curious not long ago and went on the bnp site and was shocked at the imagery, three blonde white children holding a british flag.
reminded me of pictures of the nazis propaganda.
i am conserned that history is repeating it self.
unfortuantly, the rich are making it worse, with the government not doing anything and the media sprouting one sided arguments.

British Values

Hmmm , I am one of those naturalised Brits .

I have been a British Subject - Citizen for almost 2 decade.

Here are the values which I learnt in UK in last 25 years ;

Individualism , Fairplay , Equality .

reply to post by Haydn_17


As others have already said this is a transparent attempt to capture a few last minute votes. All of these years where he hasn't bothered to tackle the problem and suddenly a u-turn? Yeah ok i'll swallow that when i can swallow a fully grown whale whole.

If this man wins the election he won't do a damn thing about immigration. Now i'm not saying i want all immigrants out, however a tighter system, with maximum number controls and where only useful people can enter is something the country should be looking into. Also the right to deport someone more easily would be nice.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I ended up working in the Germany and the Swiss alps during the last recession of the 90s, the difference is that most would fall back on the UKs benifit system rather than use the Benifit system of the country they were working in.. Also a high proportion paid taxes (at least it was deducted

)

There was also a surplus of work, so we were not in most cases causes social issues in the countries we were working in, and thus were welcomed for the spending power..

So for my mind there is a large difference between that to those coming here and working for £2.50 or £3.00 an hour cash in hand, which is undermining the jobs market, while claiming all the benifits available and not paying into the system that is supporting them.

I'm not going to blame to migrants, it is the employers who cause a lot of these issues by employing migrant workers for less than the legal minimum, which marries in the to Govs lax approach in controling this situation.

Oh yes, I agree. The British have been able to do this in the past simply because they were able to due to gaps in the employment elsewhere - unlike the job market over here right now.

Perhaps it's a regional thing but, where I live things are genuinely hard regarding work. My own partner - good degree, good references - is really struggling to find work, even full-time, long term minimum wage stuff. Job Seekers Allowance has just been changed and the minimum job applications needed to meet 'looking for work' requirements has been dropped. The reason being that even the Job Centre recognise the dearth of jobs.

As far as I'm concerned, all this about 'there's jobs if you want them blah blah blah' is nonsense, particularly if you living here permanently &c.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


i have the same problem at the job centre here the only jobs available are ones where you have to have either experience which i dont have or a qualification.
people keepo saying look, but i do ive even moved to a new county looking for jobs.
ive now took the option of going to college but i have to wait until september for the course to start.

i dont know about your job centres but mine ae
re very rude and treat all people asking for help as scroungers and layabouts.
i went on the job seekers for a few months a couple of years ago and got treated apaulingly.
the worst part was walking out of the jobcentre looking at the leaflets and one said 'now you've moved to england what bebefits can you get'.
that made my blood boil.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

Many of the single men, without families here, are living in very heavily shared rented accommodation for short term periods with very little expenditure and basically act as a filter for taking money out of the country. Whereas someone living here permanently it's a different kettle of fish and they're in a system that effects them on a long term basis.

This is so true, my brother recently slept (and still is) in a minging old caravan Monday to Saturday in the appalling winter weather in order to keep a job down hardly seeing his family a few hours away.

On this site he was the only British worker in the crew, there were over 20 migrants allegedly cash in hand "kept" in a 3 bedroom house close to the site.

As far as I can gather, they were laying concrete building foundations and the standard of work was apparently so appalling that the contractor had to re do the job several times. By all accounts the contractor was saving so much money on labor it didn't matter how many times he had to re do the job.

The migrant workers were very happy indeed to work for peanuts as one peanut could pay for the tickets for their entire family to fly over to the UK.
The peanuts were substantially supplemented by the sale of cheap tobacco products and branded clothing.
Yes indeed the migrant worker would happily sleep in a field in the snow because they are on such a good deal.

Now here the kicker - Many of the sites employing the migrants are building houses for "Social Landlords" Housing Association etc using grants paid for by the tax payer.
The real kick in the teeth is that Housing Associations have very closely guarded "allocation" regulations that tell them what type of person has priority when it comes to allocating their homes.

Yes indeed guess who's at top of the list for social housing in the UK ? that's right the now "homeless or over crowded" families of migrant workers.

Because the migrant workers (with nice new shiny houses) are on such low pay or are often laid off guess who pays their rent and council tax ? Yup that's right the taxes of poor bastard British family with 3 kids struggling to get by, forced to live with their parents because they can't afford a home.

And here is the real icing on the cake - When the British by some miracle manage to get a mortgage out of the banks "that they bailed out" they buy a nice shiny "poorly built" new house. They are completely unaware that the contractor has cut a deal with a "Housing Association" where they get half the estate and the value of the "bought" houses immediately plummets!!!!!

Christ I'm so angry about this I can't even finish

reply to post by piedsniper


and the government wonders why people are turning other parties and protesting

reply to post by kerrichin

i have the same problem at the job centre here the only jobs available are ones where you have to have either experience which i dont have or a qualification. people keepo saying look, but i do ive even moved to a new county looking for jobs.

The real pisser is that the government gave about 2 billion( can't remember exact figure at the mo) to the job centers at the beginning of the financial crisis to employ enough people to deal with the increase in claims !!!
Were any of the new positions advertised in the jobcenters ? That's right not one it's all a freaking joke an exercise in massaging figures.

The maths and reality are easily understood - If you have 2 million unemployed Brits 2 million employed migrants (no one knows the real figures as the government conveniently forgot to keep a check) you get rid of the migrants.
It is that simple we look after our own "first", if Lady Dashwood lardy dar has to pay £2 pound more for her asparagus that she's going to only eat half of on sunday, so bloody what !

Originally posted by kerrichin
reply to post by piedsniper

 

and the government wonders why people are turning other parties and protesting

Well I'm voting BMP I couldn't give a crap if Nick Griffin is a racist a fascist or a sheep shagger, it doesn't make me one and the bastards in parliament and the house of lords, who are supposed to be working for us may I add will be getting the message loud and clear.

It's dog eat dog now and my kids come before any migrants, sorry but that's how it is, I don't care where they are from what colour their skin is or what invisible man in the sky they worship my kids come first.

I share Kerrichin's concern that history is repeating itself. Hitler blamed the Jews and fueled peoples hatred and anger, while putting himself forward as the solution and getting into power. Is this what the BNP and suchlike are trying now?
As far as I can see the unemployement situation has been caused by greedy bankers and bad goverment, not to mention the free market economy we have. Save your anger for these people and the economic system we have.
Gordon Brown wants you to blame Johnny Foreigner, tapping into this Britishness thing the same as the BNP et al, moving the focus of peoples blame away from him and his cronies so hopefully people vote for him.
Hating people for being different or from somewhere else is NEVER the answer to ANYTHING.
Please people, get a grip.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Well, things are not that good in this neck of the woods, I might live in the rich (haha) South East, But the county is one of the poorest in the nation, and has been for a long time.

I have no hope in getting a job locally.. and need to travel at least 2-3 hours each way to find work to suit my skillset..

I've noticed most of the temp job locally are being advertised as requiring fluency in 2 or 3 lanquages.. these are for roles that have NO exposure to clients outside of the UK.

This is the kind of dishonest employment scams that are going on... On the one hand the working classes are called lazy and on the other deceiptfull employment processes that ensure those same people are excluded from the workforce.. and it utterly disgusts me.

i noticed not long ago that any labour style jobs on the jobcentre where actually in polish not british, now there are never jobs like that on the website, now its just mangerial jobs and lorry firm jobs which i can do niether from lackof experience because no one will give me the chance to get said experience or that i need the right paper work to do so.

i still believe that people are being segragated into there ethnic groups in stead of getting to know and understand instead we are fed stories about how not to trust each other.
we get stories like the black gangs the muslim rapists, the polish arogance, and they get the same for the whites so everyone hates each other.

i dont so much as blame the immigrants more the bosses who employ them and leave us to fight fpr a job, and the government who wont stop them from coming in.
the borders shoujld be closed or only people with required skills we need.
we do need to get rid of none skilled immegrants so the british can get work.
im sure if this happened the bnp would not have so many followers, but unfortuanly the three main parties in britain have all lied (take the expences scandals) so people are turning to other parties and unfortuantly the bnp are feeding off of peoples paranoia towards the immigrants.

as i said above i have experience discimination because of the immigration epidemic but looking at it, its never from the immigrants them selfs but from the councils or bosses of countires.
my partner has experiences discimination from a fellow worker who called verbally assaulted him but his bosses should have sorted the problem out instead of whitewashing it and calling my partner a racist for reporting it.
now the factory he works at is in factions the whites are fighting the immigrant workers and it is geting out of hand.
all the worker needed was a verbal warning

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Well, things are not that good in this neck of the woods, I might live in the rich (haha) South East, But the county is one of the poorest in the nation, and has been for a long time.

I have no hope in getting a job locally.. and need to travel at least 2-3 hours each way to find work to suit my skillset..

I've noticed most of the temp job locally are being advertised as requiring fluency in 2 or 3 lanquages.. these are for roles that have NO exposure to clients outside of the UK.

This is the kind of dishonest employment scams that are going on... On the one hand the working classes are called lazy and on the other deceiptfull employment processes that ensure those same people are excluded from the workforce.. and it utterly disgusts me.

Reading back on what I wrote I've realised that I've perhaps given the wrong impression. Sorry. When I said the minimum requirements for 'actively seeking work' have been "dropped", I meant as in lowered not dropped altogether.

As for the point about languages, my partner was recently told she could find work more easily if she spoke Polish as apparently, there's quite a lot of Polish businesses opening-up but expect the employees to be able to speak Polish. Not because these firms are international and deal with Poland, but simply because it's the first language of the owners, management and the other employees. My partner's family is East European and she found that staggering and infuriating as her family was expected to learn English when they came here with refugee status in the late 1950s.

I share your disgust - not that it changes anything.