Internet without laws 'a recipe for anarchy

reply to post by Divinorumus


No, the analogy is correct. By your logic you cannot stick your head out of your window and scream and shout as it would be no different than standing in the street, screaming and shouting. The internet is like the world outside of your window. Anyway you want to slice it, it doesn't belong to you, your ownership ceases at that plug in the wall. As far as the ISPs are concerned, they can do whatever they like with their networks, you either support them or not depending on whether you give them your money or not.

If ISP's wont say no to the governments censorship regulations, then the ISPs customers should grow a pair and tell their ISP that simply being complicit is not good enough. The people are already at a disadvantage as this is is strictly between the government and private business, not eh government and the people. The peoples grievance should therefor be with the network providers as it is them who will be implementing the censorship, and what is more, you'll be paying for the privilege.

Originally posted by m4nchur14n
The internet is like the world outside of your window.

The Internet is just wire, nothing is posted on the Internet itself. Websites however are like apartments, homes, you rent them, you buy them. I have a web server here in my home, you could access it if I gave you the URL, and I can post any damn comment upon it that I please .. and I can leave the door to it open, just like a home, and invite anyone I please to come on in and read read read.

You can't censor the Internet, nothing is STORED there. And nobody has a right to tell me what I can say on MY web server, be it owned by me, or rented somewhere else out there in the world, because that is MY SPACE. They can no more regulate what I say on my web site than they can regulate what I could say in my home or write in a book or in a letter to another (with the exception of those things we can all agree that nobody should be posting, like kiddy porn, or death threats, or plots to overthrow the government, etc.). And sure, when you rent space for a web site somewhere, ISPs could decline to support your content, just as any business can refuse anyone service, but if you own the damn thing, like your home, you can post whatever to your hearts content .. and if someone doesn't want to come into your home or your web site, then they don't have to.

A lot of people think free speech means you can run up to someone in public and yell whatever you want in their face. WRONG! Free speech is you having the right to say whatever you want in YOUR SPACE and anyone that cares to hear can some and listen to you in YOUR SPACE. Trying to regulate web site speech would be no different than trying to regulate a conversation you might have in your home. They simply can't do it.

It's like that.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by m4nchur14n
If ISP's wont say no to the governments censorship regulations, then the ISPs customers should grow a pair and tell their ISP that simply being complicit is not good enough. The people are already at a disadvantage as this is is strictly between the government and private business, not eh government and the people. The peoples grievance should therefor be with the network providers as it is them who will be implementing the censorship, and what is more, you'll be paying for the privilege.

I think you fail to understand what is being proposed in Australia....The ISP's will HAVE NO CHOICE if this legislation passes both houses of Parliament...Compulsory internet content filtering will become L-A-W law...Any ISP found not complying will immediately be cut off from the "backbone...There are 3 ISP's that provide land-based connectivity in/out of Australia at present, and they are all supportive of the governments' legislation...

An ISP that tries to get around this by not implementing the filter and uses satellite links to get around O/S connectivity issue would be shut down so fast your head wouldn't have time to spin...

This filter has already been successfully tested by several ISP's, including our largest ISP & telco, Telstra...

So what you're suggesting we do won't be possible...The only way we will be able to view blocked content will be via proxies or VPN, which will further slow down our connections already slowed by the filtering process...

reply to post by Retrovertigo


I understand just fine, you on the other hand seem to be failing to understand that the bread and butter of those ISPs is its customers, no customers, no money. If the 3 main ISPs are all for the censorship, which they have every right to be as a private business, then it is up to those people who give their hard earned cash every month to be provided with a service to say that they are no longer happy with the service being provided. But it would seem that in this instance, like many others, people do not actually want to take the steps necessary to achieve that. So, what will happen is people will keep paying their money ans the ISPs will gladly take while providing them with less of a service. Whether it is law makes little difference at this point, laws can be removed just as easily if not more so, than they can be introduced. All I'm seen is people whining and doing nothing mainly because they are too lazy to stand up for what they apparently believe in. If you ask me, they're more concerned about keeping their MyFace updated and Twattering about nonsense to even think about disconnecting in protest. Either that or they are hoping it will all just magically disappear.

As long as you keep paying for it, you are basically saying its ok, don't you get that?





[edit on 1-4-2010 by m4nchur14n]

reply to post by m4nchur14n


OK....No probs

In a "perfect world" what you suggest might be possible, but the world isnt perfect...

As you obviously have no idea what's going on with this proposed legislation and the specific situation in Australia, I won't argue with you anymore...

[edit on 1/4/2010 by Retrovertigo]

reply to post by Retrovertigo


I see, so what you are basically saying is you know I'm right, but your internet connection is so precious to you that you would rather keep it with censorship than vote with your wallet and take in some nature for a couple of months. You deserve censorship as obviously you can't be bothered to stand up against it outside of complaining on some message board.

Why should the ISPs care when people like you will keep on paying regardless. I think its called being a mug.



[edit on 1-4-2010 by m4nchur14n]

Originally posted by m4nchur14n
reply to post by Retrovertigo

 

I see, so what you are basically saying is you know I'm right, but your internet connection is so precious to you that you would rather keep it with censorship than vote with your wallet and take in some nature for a couple of months. You deserve censorship as obviously you can't be bothered to stand up against it outside of complaining on some message board.

Again, you're misinformed...

I am currently VERY active in the community both online and off trying to gather enough support to have the government change its mind about its proposal...

Remember what they say about assuming....Hmmmm ?

Here is an easy analogy to better understand this:

Think of the Internet as your public telephone network, it's just wires and switches.

Think of a web site as your phone.

Think of your URL as your phone number.

And think of your web sites content as your mouth.

Now, how in the hell does anyone get off thinking they could regulate YOUR MOUTH and what comes out of it while you use your telephone, hum?

This internet censorship idea is as lame as trying to regulate your speech during a phone call.

Maybe the problem here is people are letting this happen because they simply do not understand the technology. Imagine the phone company denying you the right to contract with them to hook your phone up to the public phone network because you like to talk trash with people on the phone. Wouldn't EVERYONE get upset about that? Who in their right mind would allow that? Who in their right mind would want that?

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Divinorumus]

reply to post by Retrovertigo


Doesn't seem to be working huh? Get a few million people to cancel their subscriptions, then you'll start getting somewhere. Otherwise you're just wasting everyones time.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Here is an easy analogy to better understand this:

Think of the Internet as your public telephone network, it's just wires and switches.

Think of a web site as your phone.

Think of your URL as your phone number.

And think of your web sites content as your mouth.

Now, how in the hell does anyone get off thinking they could regulate YOUR MOUTH and what comes out of it while you use your telephone, hum?

This internet censorship idea is as lame as trying to regulate your speech during a phone call.

Maybe the problem here is people are letting this happen because they simply do not understand the technology. Imagine the phone company denying you the right to contract with them to hook your phone up to the public phone network because you like to talk trash with people on the phone. Wouldn't EVERYONE get upset about that? Who in their right mind would allow that? Who in their right mind would want that?

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Divinorumus]

Yes, you are right....Many people either support this or don't care as they are ignorant of/don't understand the technology...

Very good point

I know deep down inside everyone loves anarchy since they love going online to the world wide web via internet which is so likened unto anarchy working very well.

Governments see anarchy working well via online, so they then have a burning problem with the world wide web/internet. They know anarchy working well how it's shown online is proof that anarchy is 100 times better than government and its laws (force).

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Tormentations]