Losing their religion? Catholicism in turmoil

They ARE in turmoil.
The people ARE losing their catholic religion.
It is excellent news. It shows that people on the planet are now waking up in droves.
This means less sheeple, people



That rules. Excellent thread, OP.

Good..... I'm glad..... The sooner Christians see that it is Yeshua that is the Shepherd and NOT any priest, pastor or pontif then the world will be a better place...

Whatever proceeds the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church, it will be a bizarre spirituality. A mixture of Christian-Islamic, pro-nature religion.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Good..... I'm glad..... The sooner Christians see that it is Yeshua that is the Shepherd and NOT any priest, pastor or pontif then the world will be a better place...

That is COMPLETELY Untrue!

Catholism does have alot of child molestation cursing it's religious leaders however you don't see catholics trying to speed up the second coming by destroying babylon and advocating zionism.

What you are saying couldn't be further from the truth.

Well, I absolutely do not speak for all Catholics, but I will speak for myself as a Catholic and I live in an American diocese where there have been instances of this heinous crime, although not at my specific Church.

First, let me just say that I hope that God has a special for all those that commit crimes against children.

Paedophilia is a nasty little secret across the board, it is not specific to religion, country, gender, or economic status. It is a both a crime and mental disorder (one that I am far from certain can be cured through therapy). That being said, it was believed that these criminals could be rehabilitated, the evidence of that seems to prove otherwise.

I have not lost my faith in God or in what Catholicism preaches, or even ultimately in the Church (although I understand how other Catholics may have). Despite the constant claim by various other so called Christian groups, Catholics are Christians, do adhere to the Bible, and gasp not only is the Bible read at every Mass, but every so called ritual is biblically based. So, to those that profess otherwise, I can only suggest you educate yourselves.

I personally, have gone more into traditional Catholicism. I have issue with much of Vatican II, and find that I am happier in Churches that adhere to the Latin Mass. What that means as to my relationship to the Vatican is sometimes up in the air, but currently it is intact.

I know that there is a detachment from the "flock" in my experience, and it is only my experience, it is largely based in the modernization. This past Ash Wednesday, I was tied up and was unable to go my regular church, as I said I am specific in what I desire in my service, and that means I have to travel out of my immediate area to do that. Anyway, I was unable to get there, so I visited a local parish that is right around the corner.

I was born well after Vatican II went into effect, therefore my entire childhood (when my mother brought me to services which was sporadic at best and only when I asked to go) was the "new" Mass. When I left this even newer service, it was unrecognizable to me, and not simply because of my new found preference, even from about 10 yrs ago it just didn't feel right or familiar, to me.

I'm certain that many people feel just fine there, many of them are my neighbors and from Friday night through Sunday afternoon it is packed both the very large parking lot and all the surrounding streets are filled the cars of the faithful.

When I later mentioned to them the specific items that I had issue with, they largely said they had the same issues but that more or less they were going "with the flow" and didn't want to cause a problem.

I don't know if St. Malachi's prophecy will prove true, although I guess we will soon find out.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Dude.... How wrong YOU are... Its the Vatican and its evil underbelly that has done all that... Some people say "follow the money" but all those roads lead to Rome.... Its PEOPLE.... Money hungry power tripping PEOPLE that cause the crap.... If people truly carried out Messiahs teachings instead of the teachings of men then the world would indeed be better....

Love God.. Love each other.... Thats the whole thing... Man turns it into a religion then uses that to enslave people....

Yeshua said "Follow Me" not THEM...... I recommend you read Mathew 23 where Yeshua said "Call no man on earth your father (pastor/rabbi/priest) for ONE is your father He who is in heaven... And call no one on earth your teacher.. For one is your teacher, the Messiah, for you are ALL Brethren (equal)"... In fact the whole of Mathew 23 is very scathing on man made religion...

We are better off without them.. Just Love God and people...

Do you not realize that this is a carefully orchestrated attack against the Mother Church by its enemies? And the Church most definitely has enemies, as it has since its founding over 2,000 years ago.

The story of abuse in the Catholic Church has been highly sensationalized by the media. Thankfully, the Church has, in recent years, and under Pope Benedict's leadership, adopted a strict, no nonsense policy against child abuse.

Specifically, the Church has adopted a no tolerance policy. Anyone affiliated with the Church that will be working with children (even volunteers) must undergo a thorough criminal background and reference check. The Church is very, very clear and up front to anyone that interacts with children or vulnerable individuals that abuse will not be tolerated. Things have changed for the better in this regard.

The most recent allegations in the media are from over 50 years ago. The priest being accused isn't even alive to defend himself, or to receive a fair trial or hearing.

What about false accusations? How many of these allegations of abuse are false? How many are true? Just because a journalist claims to have insider information, or alleged "Church correspondence", how do you know they are telling the truth? It's not uncommon for journalists to fabricate and distort evidence to sensationalize a news story.

Some priests - a very, very tiny minority - did abuse children. Statistically, the number of abusers have been less than other professions that interact with children (teachers, for instance). That doesn't make it right. It just makes it obvious that the Church is under attack from a biased media that feeds on sensational news stories.

Ask yourself: Why is it that the media fails to attack other religions and institutions that have this same problem?

Why not attack the public school system where child abuse is common?

How about our prison system, where men and women are abused and raped daily?

The Catholic Church is too large, with too many adherents, to suddenly disappear. The Church is actually growing in certain parts of the world. With Pope Benedict's liberalization of the pre-Vatican II Mass, many former Catholics have returned to the traditional Catholic Church in greater numbers than ever before. In fact, the traditionalist Catholic movement is rapidly gaining in popularity, especially among the young who love the Latin Mass.

There is no need to defame the Church in this forum. For all the negative attacks, there are hundreds of thousands of positive stories about the Church and its charitable and philanthropic endeavors.

The Church does more to help the poor, oppressed, the sick, the unborn, the aged, the homeless, battered women, etc. than any other institution on the planet. This is true today, as it has been over many centuries.

Originally posted by infinite
Whatever proceeds the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church, it will be a bizarre spirituality. A mixture of Christian-Islamic, pro-nature religion.

The Orange Catholic Bible I suspect.

Though Jediism would be very cool.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Dude.... How wrong YOU are... Its the Vatican and its evil underbelly that has done all that... Some people say "follow the money" but all those roads lead to Rome.... Its PEOPLE.... Money hungry power tripping PEOPLE that cause the crap.... If people truly carried out Messiahs teachings instead of the teachings of men then the world would indeed be better....

Love God.. Love each other.... Thats the whole thing... Man turns it into a religion then uses that to enslave people....

Yes but those men aren't catholics!

Get someone who considers Yehsua as his sheppard in politics and you will elect the most hawkish of candidates!

Plus you speak of the lord being your sheppard.
If he is a sheppard what are you? You are a sheep!

It's sheep that are destroying this planet as we speak or at least the most dangerous as in massive flocks they are the ones support the evil sheppards and allowing the destruction of our world, the killing of people and the curbing of humanity.

What's the difference between catholicism and christianity/judaism/islam?

In catholicism it's the priests, popes, pantiffs and religious leaders that are corrupt and that make up what... 5% of catholics?

In christianity/judaism/islam is the the leaders AND the people/followers that support religious imperialism and they make up what..... 60% of such followers of these abrahamic religions?

60% vs. 5%... who wins?

If you look at the numbers Catholicism is the farthest from being a thorn in the evolution of our specie.

reply to post by CookieMonster09

Could you possibly trivialize child rape a little more? Accessory after the fact, I'd say

reply to post by ModernAcademia


There is a big difference..... The difference is the fact that religion is man made with many rules, regulations and judgments that go against the freedom of the individual and allows for unscrupulous men to control....

Yeshua offered freedom FROM religion... That all sins are pardoned..... Yet this message was perverted by men for their own ends... You see many evil things done in the Name of Jesus, yet there has not been much evil done in His true Name... Yeshua.... And THAT evil was committed by men... NOT God...
The One who said "turn the other cheek" "He without sin cast the first stone" "Love one another" never ordered the whole sale slaughter of many... The "church" did... That "whore who fornicates with the world and is drunk with the blood of the saints" is the one that did it, and swapped the beauty of the message for the ashes of power and control...

Believe me... They will have their place in hell... These are the same who Yeshua said "woe to him who cause my little ones to stumble.. It would have been better that he had not been born" the church has called all men to stumble with false teachings and evil acts that take people away from God and His message....

Edit to add: I would be one of Yeshua's sheep any day than be a sheep to this world and its corrupt institutions... Baaaaaaaaaaaaa

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Yissachar1]

reply to post by Yissachar1


Ok before I respond let me ask you
do you follow/ are you referring to the Old Testament, the New Testament, both and what is your stance on the Talmud.

Thx

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I HATE the Talmud..... Man made control at its finest...... The Tanakh?.... Oh your gonna turn God into a mass murderer now arent you? A jealous and cruel God?

The old testament as you would call it is all about the consequence of sin... The advent of Messiah and our redemption back to God.....

You throw the usual passages at me and I will explain them... Wont make much difference though because the message always sounds like foolishness to those who are perishing...

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Thankfully, the Church has, in recent years, and under Pope Benedict's leadership, adopted a strict, no nonsense policy against child abuse.

Specifically, the Church has adopted a no tolerance policy. Anyone affiliated with the Church that will be working with children (even volunteers) must undergo a thorough criminal background and reference check. The Church is very, very clear and up front to anyone that interacts with children or vulnerable individuals that abuse will not be tolerated. Things have changed for the better in this regard.....

What about false accusations? How many of these allegations of abuse are false? How many are true?....

Some priests - a very, very tiny minority - did abuse children. Statistically, the number of abusers have been less than other professions that interact with children (teachers, for instance)....

Ask yourself: Why is it that the media fails to attack other religions and institutions that have this same problem?

The Catholic Church is one big Good Old Boys' Club where I would not doubt plenty of cover-ups have taken place, and have yet to be known. What about in rural, backward areas of the world? How are you going to get the word out if you are living in a grass hut and being molested by a priest?

The media does attack other religions, and here is a wonderful site that keeps track of all the nastiness regarding religion in the news.

Fetid Fruit

let me see ...

#1 Christians fighting amongst themselves - (check)

#2 Child abuse and cruelty being commited by priests and vicars / monks / nuns etc - (check)

#3 Conventional religion on it's @r$e - (check)

Yeah ... everything's the same as always ... as it has been for the last 2,000 yrs. And only now are some of the flock removing the scales from their eyes. Oh well ... better late than never I suppose.

Continue

Woody

reply to post by Yissachar1


I dislike futility!

You know a wise man once said "I used to pray to god everyday until one day I realized I was praying to myself".

While you pray to an invisible man I do productive things. I read, I study, I spend time with the wife or exercise.

How many in your family, like your grandfather, you great grandfather, your great great great grandfather's grandfather have waited for the second coming or any sign from god and then..... passed away?
That is a 100% failure rate

The only thing that creates a sheppard is sheep, if there are no sheep there is no sheppard so is that the death of god himself?

Zillions of people before have waited and wasted their lives and the lives of others by waiting for the messiah.

I dislike futility!

If there is a god then realize that god gave you the gift of life, enjoy it and make the most out of it, praying to an invisible man is an insult to this creator if anything.

You said Yeshua offered freedom FROM religion. Really?
How?

Originally posted by 4nsicphd
reply to post by CookieMonster09

 

Could you possibly trivialize child rape a little more? Accessory after the fact, I'd say

Exactly how did you get that cookiemonster09 was trivializing molestation?

I didn't get that at all.

To cookiemonster:
I thought it was an excellent posting Isn't it odd, how we have these discussions on the downfall of the Catholic Church on the basis of this vial men. But when it is a teacher, it winds up on E! True Hollywood Story with the title "Hot for Students" or something similar, they have I think 2 different ones on rotation. I can't recall her name Laterno maybe, she was having an affair with a 13 year old boy, she did a stint in prison, now she's married to her victim, they have 2 children and host hot for teacher parties at the local clubs. Repulsive, but that is the world we live apparently.

There is an obvious sensationalism when it is Catholic Priest that commits these heinous acts, but what about that Rabbi there was a thread about a few weeks ago, the countless politicians, etc.

I can not explain it, and certainly I refuse to defend anyone that commits such acts, but this is a widespread problem. Perhaps, it would better serve us and our children to focus on stopping the crime, to publicizing these all of these monsters and ensuring that they will never have the opportunity to destroy the innocence of another child.

What I will never understand is how other faiths inform me that Catholics worship the Pope, or Priests, or believe that they the second coming of Christ. Catholics know that these are men, some more virtuous than others, all capable and guilty of sin. To believe that a faithful person, regardless of religion, would lose their faith over the actions of criminals is absurd.

In my experience, you were also correct about the growing numbers of people returning to the Latin Mass. I for one am younger and have found it to be a wonderful experience, and most of the others there are younger as well and growing quickly.

As someone who is not a Catholic, or even Christian for that matter, I actually tend to stay away from these conversations. I tend to view them as a Christian matter best left to Christians to work out. After all, it worked out well in Ireland, eh?

But as someone with a more than passing interest in history, prophesy, and "The Game", I can't resist pointing out that the whole thing does seem orchestrated. I'm actually in agreement with CookieMonster09 that this is a deliberate attack against the Catholic church, but that the media is not the opponent, merely the vessel.

I actually applaud the work of the Catholics in regards to takng care of the homeless and hungry, etc. I very much respect that many of them are exceedingly tolerant of other religions and philosophies, in stark contrast to many of the Protestants I have known over the years.

Still, I cannot trust the men in power. They are a government and they are power hungry and corrupt, just like most every government on the planet.

On a side note, if the Vatican is a sovereign state, why don't they participate in the olympics?

I dislike futility! You know a wise man once said "I used to pray to god everyday until one day I realized I was praying to myself". While you pray to an invisible man I do productive things. I read, I study, I spend time with the wife or exercise. How many in your family, like your grandfather, you great grandfather, your great great great grandfather's grandfather have waited for the second coming or any sign from god and then..... passed away? That is a 100% failure rate The only thing that creates a sheppard is sheep, if there are no sheep there is no sheppard so is that the death of god himself? Zillions of people before have waited and wasted their lives and the lives of others by waiting for the messiah. I dislike futility! If there is a god then realize that god gave you the gift of life, enjoy it and make the most out of it, praying to an invisible man is an insult to this creator if anything. You said Yeshua offered freedom FROM religion. Really? How?

reply to post by ModernAcademia



So you resort to being personal?... ..... Weak...... I can honestly say that I have NOT, and neither have my family wasted anytime waiting for the rapture ...... They were too busy being persecuted by the roman church for being Jews....

I have spent most of my life fighting in wars, preparing for war... In between, raising my kids to be good people and coming to faith in Messiah that set me free from all those damn regulations... To one where I could just love... Love without conditions.... THATS freedom dude........

I DO spend loads of time with my kids.... Even when I'm on this site too... Just like you I guess...

But thanks for making me laugh

Originally posted by Yissachar1
So you resort to being personal?...

..... Weak......

Don't think I was being personal
I wasn't talk about YOU specifically
I was referring to all people who pray even when I said You

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I can honestly say that I have NOT, and neither have my family wasted anytime waiting for the rapture

...... They were too busy being persecuted by the roman church for being Jews....

Well.. I can't say much there then, but at least to others I can

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I have spent most of my life fighting in wars, preparing for war... In between, raising my kids to be good people and coming to faith in Messiah that set me free from all those damn regulations... To one where I could just love... Love without conditions.... THATS freedom dude........

You are IDF?
You fought in the intifada?
If you haven't fought in the intifada you haven't been in a war.

Wait.. how exactly do you need Jesus to love without conditions????