Wi-Fi anxiety: Man sues neighbor to shut off electronics

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


I did not say peer reviewed literature was useless; only that it is not some kind of ultimate authority. Cap and Trade was based off of peer reviewed literature, too, and it might one day take my life, so hey....sometimes, its a wash.

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Then I shall give my thanks.

I was too lazy to get links, so thank you for grabbing one in my stead.

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by Damian-007

 

I think you are still generalizing WAYYYY too much. Here is a primer on Bluetooth; it is NOT identical to Wi-fi.

I did not claim to know exactly why it effects me. I only pointed out that it does. Your disbelief does not make it stop happening. Why are you so intent to disbelieve? I mean, seriously? Wouldn't it make more sense to examine the differences in the two technologies and see if perhaps there is something that you could pin down as a cause? Maybe with bluetooth the effect is difference because of how it rapidly changes to slightly different frequencies? Or maybe Wi-fi effects are just easier to tune out because the frequencies are more stable? I did not claim to know how it all works, just that it happens, as I said.

What did I say? Do you not read the posts before you reply with your statement and LINK that proves my comments?

Blutooth and WiFi operate on the Same Frequency. How is that generalizing it?

I think you don't have a clue as to what Bluetooth, WiFi and RF Is..

You're confused. Go see a Doctor and maybe visit a Phsychiatrist.

Oh, one other thing. Find out how WiFi works while you're at it.

WiFi can also Frequency hop between a certain range. I think I've read that before about something else. That's right, BLUETOOTH.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Damian-007]

Mod Note: Warning issued. You know better than this, and here's where the derailing begins. Courtesy is mandatory. Please keep that in mind while posting. -- Majic

[edit on 3/28/2010 by Majic]

Listen.

It's not only about nonsense it's about the Fact that the power levels used for Bluetooth or WiFi are that small, it cannot affect you.

1 milliwatt of power which is Maximum, is so small, it's tiny.
Most of the time Bluetooth operates at half if not a quarter of 1 milliwatt. So if you're trying to convince me that this affect you, you won't.

Now, it is possible, doubtful but possible, that when you switch bluetooth on your phone, It is causing a Hetrodyne because of the frequency the Phone is using for the Cell Network. I doubt that';s what's happening I'm just trying to become Empathetic with your problem.

Ok, you know how much power your body would absorb of the Bluetooth RF Output? Even at the full 1 milliwatt, you would be lucky if 100th of that reached your brain.

Out in the open, if bluetooth was switched on and you were 5 feet away from it, I doubt it could affect you at all.

So, this is the dilemma. Bluetooth and WiFi operate at 2.4 ghz. Some of the new Bluetooth will be 5ghz. I haven't seen it but it does exist.

Do you know what else uses 2.4ghz? So many products, it's not funny.



[edit on 28-3-2010 by Damian-007]

[edit on 3/28/2010 by Majic]

Saturnine_sweet, the entire universe is made of electromagnetic radiation.

Every single atom of all matter in the universe is emitting electromagnetic radiation.

Just walking across a carpet with socks on creates electromagnetic radiation.

The Sun is the Earths primary source of electromagnetic radiation.

Radio waves, microwaves, infrared radiation, visible light, ultra violet light, x-rays, and gamma rays, are all electromagnetic radiation... they are all the same thing but at a different wavelengths. They are ALL known as LIGHT.

When you complain about Bluetooth and Wi-Fi signals, what you are really complaining about is LIGHT. You are saying LIGHT is causing all these medical issues.

I bet you $10,000.00 if I put a blind fold on you and put you next to a Wi-Fi router, that you wouldn't be able to tell me if the router was on or off. You would be wrong, and this would prove that the effects you think you feel are your own mind, or something else.

That same experiment could be done on the man who is suing his neighbor, and he would lose his case.

What you are really discussing here is light. We already know the effects of light on people and matter.

I truly believe this is a mental issue, or another medical issue being wrongly diagnosed.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by Damian-007


Wow...ok...so youre just a troll. Or you have zero reading comprehension. They are not identical in how they operate. Point blank. End of story. Perhaps it is vibrational and bluetooth has that effect because I generally hold my phone in my hand but not my router, idk. I can tell you that assuming that anyone who has different experiences than you is crazy is not a healthy way to go through life. Since you cannot discuss the issue, but instead just make personal attacks because you disagree, Im pretty much done discussing with you.

And btw, if you think Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are identical...perhaps you should read up some more, yourself. Similar is not identical. As I stated earlier, perhaps one reason why this phenomenon is so difficult to pin down is because it is tied to one extremely specific implementation of this technology. Either way, facts are facts, and while I lack the means to prove them in a scientific study, I do not have to take your insults and ignorance, simply because you feel free to be an internet tough-guy know-it-all and call me a liar.

Mod Note: Warning issued. The right thing to do when confronted with an insulting post is ALERT it, rather than follow suit and derail your own thread. You are responsible for what you post, and being offended doesn't excuse your own misconduct. -- Majic

[edit on 3/28/2010 by Majic]

reply to post by Damian-007


Yes, I am quite aware what uses 2.4ghz. And I am quite aware that you are missing the point. Or maybe confusing it? This post doesnt even really seem to relate to what I was speaking of. These devices produce sound....just because it is not audible, does not mean that it cannot have effects. I didn't think that radiation from the electromagnetic generation of said sound waves was affecting me; I am well aware of the power output on these devices and the unlikelihood of that.

Lets put it this way, though this isnt really a perfect analogy; you are in a room, and there is a very high pitched sound rapidly "hopping" through different frequencies. Most people I know, that would give them a headache after too long. While the 2.4 ghz range is "inaudible," that does not mean that there could not be some similar effect.

Honestly, I could be way off with that guess. I mean, really, like I said, I DO NOT KNOW the specific function that causes this. But I discovered it the first time I bought a bluetooth enabled phone. I set everything up, turned on the bluetooth, and instant headache, followed shortly my a strange sensation in the hand and up the arm where I was holding the phone. Touching the BT dongle on the computer had the same effect. I haven't exactly gone about experimenting from there, because it is massively unpleasant.

I proposed frequency hops because they are something that are not exactly the same between BT and Wi-Fi, and I didnt think any sort of radiation would be the culprit. Basically, I was trying to spur some thought on what could be behind this. But then you came along and paraded out the arrogance brigade and rejected it all offhand. Of course, if I wanted to be a conspiracy nut, I could just assume that you were protecting personal or professional interests in the field....

Click here for more information.

I too have what is known as electrosensitivity in the same capacity as the OP.
I have known this since the introduction of 3G phones in the UK in 2003.

Since this time I have looked into the phenomenon and have done quite a lot of research from both personal first hand accounts of it and the financial implications for governments and the industry that makes money off the technology.
I am an ex-military c3 operative who has an in depth knowledge of antenna propagation and the laws governing it's use.

From the outset I will say that each ES person feels different effects.
There are people who literally cannot go outside in a city.

Fortunately I'm not one of these unfortunate people but I do feel the effects of radio transmission n the form of nausea.

Here is a list of devices that I can not be around for any great length of time.
Bluetooth, 3G phones, Wi-Fi, HSDPA, high frequency DECT phones (iro 2.4GHz), wireless peripherals such as mice and Guitar Hero and Laser pointers.

Basically , any conventional device that transmits at over 1.8GHz and has an inverse square law applied whereby the power and the distance is within a certain range. This is not limited to the above, for example, I did have a nauseating experience while standing about 200m away from a powerful analogue T.V. transmitter that served a whole city - these waves operate at VHF level below 1.8 GHz but the power was immense.

I frequently do my own blind tests whereby I will recognise the distinct feeling of nausea and
I will look around to see if there's any one using the devices - it's usually an distinctive iphone. But for the most part I manage to avoid it at home and work for now.

There appears to be an inverse relationship between the distance/power (inverse square law) of transmitting device and the frequency at which it transmits.

In the same way that sound waves can resonate objects or even break the object in case of a glass, the same can be said for Electro magnetic waves.
It's well known that microwaves resonate with water to the point of intense heating.
Fortunately the power and frequency in use of most home appliances is non-ionising radiation so that there lis little or no heating and thus the DNA strands are not immediately broken.

However, if the frequency can resonate certain cell structures it would certainly have an effect but science does not know exactly what it is. However, there are elctrical devices that can heal but for every good, there's a bad. Sometimes for the good - as can be seen with William Reich's Work into "orgone accumulators".


Buying an orgone generator can help with the effects of EM sensitivity. But I remain unconvinced of their effectiveness or safety. Some people use crystals to neutralise the effects of electro smog, again I can't speak for their effectiveness.

I recently built a bedini energiser that claims to generate free electricity from back emf and this thing caused untold amounts of nausea and vomiting while it was spinning. It did not generate 'free energy' but it was extracting energy from the zero point field and creating 'dirty electricity' or "Negative orgone Energy" in the process... I came down with a cold like symptoms that lasted for 3 weeks after this episode.

This experiment led me to beleive however could be something entirely different than simple cell resonance/disruption causing the condition and that is the notion that RF waves suck away what is known, amongst other things as the Aura, the life force, chi, the spirit or the higher self. Of course, there is no scientific evidence out there to support this because science does not recognise the Aura. There is a possibility that RF waves facilitate 'Negative Electricity' or 'Deadly Orgone Radiation' which again, can not be supported by science because science cannot measure 'orgone'. Orgone exists though... www.orgonelab.org...

Continued...

On the commercial side, the government of the UK sold 3G license to the major phone operators for 30Bln GBP in the early 2000's. This was enough to pay off the national debt at the time. There is no way on this earth that the governments will turn around and ban 3G, Wi-Fi because 5% of the population get sick. In fact, if
I am to be cynical about it, they don't care for anything but their vote and minorities have traditionally always been ignored.

Commerce would also not progress to limit the usage either because all corporations consider the bottom line of profit first before anything else.

So, we stand here, ignored by Government, Media, Corporations and skeptics but I am given hope in the guise of things like orgone healing and free energy in an effort to help humanity.

For a great intro to Orgone, see Interview with william De Meo who solv ed the drought problem in Isreal and NE Africa using Orgone: www.consciousmedianetwork.com...

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by Mr. jack

 

The idea of jammers is interesting, but as I pointed out in the reply to Damian, I'm more inclined to suspect that it is probably specific implementations of these frequencies that cause most of the issues, vs the frequencies at large, and that would also explain why generic studies regarding frequencies alone would fail. To have a positive study, you would have to find not just the right frequency, but also the exact implementation of that frequency that causes the effect. (ie, the rapid cycling of Bluetooth.)

Or stop using it and just plug in wires. I have a wired cable modem, no WIFI here. Im sure people can plug in wires, connect their phone via USB, connect your pc directly to your modem (much more stable and secure). Most people would be lost without mobile phones but are they really necessary? Maybe it would be good if we actually slowed down a bit, and stopped depending on technology so much.

reply to post by Magzoid


Thanks for the reply! Some interesting information that I have not come across before, so I will give it a look.

Your effects seem somewhat similar to mine. Ive never tested the 3G issue with a phone, because I don't use the data function and turn it off on my phone by default. Think I might test it, just to see. lol

Also thank you for bringing some technical ideas to explore in regard to this, as I was mostly just stabbing in the dark as to what functions might be having this effect.

As a note, there have been some studies about "biospheres" and the like for people...that have been interesting, with some solid data...but Im still on the fence about all of that. Certainly various meditative techniques meant to "boost" such energy are good for mental health and stress relief, at the least.

I'm going to check out your source there, and if you have anything else to contribute, Im certainly quite interested.

reply to post by Firefly_


You make a good point, and I do plug in most of my electronics. That doesn't mean I dont wish that I could use say...a bluetooth headset....because it would make my day more efficient. I look at it as kind of....hmm...I use technology to increase my productivity...and if it does not serve this function, I generally avoid it as unnecessary.

I bet you $10,000.00 if I put a blind fold on you and put you next to a Wi-Fi router, that you wouldn't be able to tell me if the router was on or off.

Accepted!

I'd be willing to bet anyone $10,000 that I can do this with a wi-fi or bluetooth.

A point to make however, the effects of Wi-fi exposure are like getting drunk.
you take a couple of shots of scotch and you don't feel the effects right away - it takes a while to 'build up' maybe 5 minutes...

Conversely, when the wi-fi is switched off, the effects don't go away immediately but they begin to subside and it takes a while to get back to normal.Roughly an hour or so , depending on the exposure length and intensity.

So I'll sit in a shielded room for 12 hours with a wifi box or bluetooth device blindfolded, but during that time you will switch on the wifi at some point. after 5 minutes I will tell you that it's switched on.

The odds of getting this correct is 144 to 1 (60/5*12)
I will do this for 10 days straight and guess correctly each time.
The odds of getting this correct 10 days in a row is 144*144*144*144*144*144*144*144*144*144

3,833,759,992,447,475,122,176 to 1

Now put your money where your mouth is.

reply to post by Magzoid


Very nice, very nice. Id take that bet too, if it is for bluetooth. But I wouldnt need but about a minute with that. lol

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by Magzoid

 

Very nice, very nice. Id take that bet too, if it is for bluetooth. But I wouldnt need but about a minute with that. lol

I'm sure there would be some person cofident enough to take this bet on - if not on here maybe the mythbusters crew or the skeptics society.

I'd do it for free just to prove a point and give credence to all the other ES sufferers out there.

I guess what I dont understand, and what made me post the article, is why so many people are so vehemently against the idea?

And, to keep it a little OT, what do you think about the lawsuit? Im not sure about suing someone over it, but it does bring up the question of how responsible we should be about the things that we are using around others.

Originally posted by Magzoid
I too have what is known as electrosensitivity in the same capacity as the OP.
I have known this since the introduction of 3G phones in the UK in 2003.

Since this time I have looked into the phenomenon and have done quite a lot of research from both personal first hand accounts of it and the financial implications for governments and the industry that makes money off the technology.
I am an ex-military c3 operative who has an in depth knowledge of antenna propagation and the laws governing it's use.

From the outset I will say that each ES person feels different effects.
There are people who literally cannot go outside in a city.

Hiding in there home will not shield them unless there home has been turned into a Faraday cage.

Distance under 5 miles from any source may cut the power of the source by the inverse square law but because there are 1000s of sources in any city the power does not fallow inverse square law.

A product like a iphone puts out very little power and even a iphone at 1 foot still put out much less power the a cell tower at 5 miles.

So hiding in a home is not going to protect you.

If the person believes they are being protected by staying at home then its all int there head.(or they are trying to scam the government for disability.)

reply to post by ANNED


Id agree about the in home thing, in a sense, but it depends on a few things. One, if that was sort of hyperbole, as in, if they go out into the city, there are so many handheld devices that it is too much, most times.

One thing I keep seeing here is that pretty much all signal from various devices is being equated as the same thing by most skeptics. Obviously, they aren't.

Originally posted by ANNED

Originally posted by Magzoid
I too have what is known as electrosensitivity in the same capacity as the OP.
I have known this since the introduction of 3G phones in the UK in 2003.

Since this time I have looked into the phenomenon and have done quite a lot of research from both personal first hand accounts of it and the financial implications for governments and the industry that makes money off the technology.
I am an ex-military c3 operative who has an in depth knowledge of antenna propagation and the laws governing it's use.

From the outset I will say that each ES person feels different effects.
There are people who literally cannot go outside in a city.

Hiding in there home will not shield them unless there home has been turned into a Faraday cage.

Distance under 5 miles from any source may cut the power of the source by the inverse square law but because there are 1000s of sources in any city the power does not fallow inverse square law.

A product like a iphone puts out very little power and even a iphone at 1 foot still put out much less power the a cell tower at 5 miles.

So hiding in a home is not going to protect you.

If the person believes they are being protected by staying at home then its all int there head.(or they are trying to scam the government for disability.)

I agree but the severely affected people will usually have some sort of EMF shielding at home or will move out to the countryside - i was referring to these people plus the countless others who don't know they have the condition.

Edit to add that there's a simple self test to see if you have the condition - buy a wireless router and swich it on/off.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Magzoid]