Riddle me this, Atheists..

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
Greetings.

Being a believer in a supreme being, I can understand why people of faith unite on ATS and throughout various parts of the world. The thing I can't seem to grasp to the fullest though is.

What unites Athiests?

I've heard it many times on ATS. "Atheism is not a religion!". Why unite then? What is your purpose of coming together? To share in your disbelief?

I am honestly puzzled by this question.

I too am puzzled by this question...

Why do you imply that Atheists unite, they may share common ground on a particular issue but you are implying Atheists behave in a cohesive, religious manner, which is not the case. Atheism to me is merely a category of people singled out for the sake of religion, you either believe or you do not, but those that believe are adamant that their belief is the correct one, which more often than not leads to disagreement, conflict and ultimately, war.

I've never heard of a unified Atheist army fighting for Atheism.

You also state in your opening statement that people of faith unite, where I believe a better turn of phrase would have been, people of the same faith unite.....and tolerate others.......on occasions.

As much as you say you are looking for a mature debate on the subject, it is my belief you are looking to antagonise by making a assumptions.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Koka]

I wasn't aware that there was some unity of atheists... My impression was that we are just random people who don't believe in God. There is no atheist organization, there is no such thing as "atheism" in a community sense, the definition of atheist just means you don't believe in God. If I was to form a group for atheists then would that not be similar to the religions we don't take part in?

[edit on 3/28/10 by MoothyKnight]

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
Sure the disbelief joins your believers (

) but what unites you?

They are united by their rejection in the belief of deities.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine

I'm not united with anyone over what I think.

reply to post by MoothyKnight


Don't forget there are a few groups who promote the same fervant zeal as any religious group.

Such as the ones from Florida who were trading bibles for porn, to which I'm too lazy to look up the thread link.

Those people make the stereotyping idea of unifying, even if most of us don't follow anything of the sort.

Originally posted by swinggal
My life is about DOING things not sitting around and talking about doing things for hours or praying that things will change. I think a lot of time is wasted by people spending so much time sitting around worrying about what the bible says etc. So much more good in the world could be done with that time...just get out there and DO things.
[edit on 28-3-2010 by swinggal]

This is something I ponder all the time. Imagine if people took matters into their own hands and built their future into the bright ideals they are waiting to be done for them instead of waiting; just how far we might be today.

One needs not be religious to end up stuck on faith, waiting for something to be done for them rather than doing it themselves.

I'm not waiting for a higher power to save me or a higher civilization to educate me, I'd rather do all this myself with my own two hands and working brain.
I'm just too damn lazy and prone to procrastination to get it done right this minute, but that's another story.

Like I said earlier, the phenomenon of coming together is human nature, not the action of faith and a system of belief.

Originally posted by DJW001
Other than our common love of humanity (irrespective of race, creed or religion) we are united by our common love of and dedication to the truth.

Now you're just being silly !
Atheists come from all different backgrounds, and have a wide variety of beliefs and ideologies. There are plenty of racist atheists and plenty on this board alone that have an apparent unhealthy and pathological fixation and hatred towards Christianity.
Pol Pot and Stalin did not have much love of humanity.

I don't think atheism is a religion, because it's usually based on an individual set of beliefs, although I believe there are some groups of atheists that could be classed as a religion, such as humanists and nihilists. These groups have a specific set of beliefs that one must adhere to, to be classified as belonging to it.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
There is a common belief in parts of the UK that Manchester United are the greatest football team in the land. It doesn't make it a religion

That's a poor analogy on two counts, though, because firstly that claim can either be backed up or not by facts, and, secondly supporting a football team to many is virtually a religion. There are many similarities between following a religion and seriously following a particular football team.

Originally posted by sadwolf
For some it is their deep hatred of organized religion and its hypocrisy. Imagine if you were one of the "deaf boys" raped repeatedly by Catholic Priests and the Church knew and did nothing. One would lose their faith in mans version of a God pretty quick.

This is just a lazy, prejudiced and bigoted argument.
How does a church covering up heinous crimes automatically mean that every religious organisation can be tarred with the same brush ?
What does abuse in the Church have to do with those that follow Jainism, for example ?
While a victim may understandably have those thoughts, it's certainly not a thought that an ''impartial'' observer should have.

I dont know where you get the idea that we all "unite". The only thing I have in common with other Atheists is our belief, or lack there of.

I also have friends with a wide variety of religious beliefs, I dont bother them with my beliefs, and they dont bother me with theirs. If only ATS were like that sometimes

reply to post by Portugoal


What are you trying to achieve by atempting to convince atheists that they are part of a 'atheist' religion?

Are you trying to catch someone out and convert them to christianity with your pathetic wordplay?

Atheism is not a cult or religion, its embracing facts, science and probabilities, its beliving in whats proven.

If god created everything, who created god??

have a chew on that one....

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


Why must we be "united" I have no need to feel a part of a group or movement, to make me feel good about myself and the life I live. I have no problem with anyones beliefs and how they live their lives. I just choose not to take part in organized religion- seems alot like a fairy tale

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
In my case it isnt a "belief", I know there is no god, therefore the label doesn't stick with me

The only way you could know there was no God, is if you knew everything about the universe. While for bravado or attention you may say you 'know' God doesn't exist, you can't fool yourself, so you actually acknowledge to yourself that all you have is a belief.

Unless you'd like to share some of that knowledge with us.

reply to post by Benji1999

Now you're just being silly !

No, I was simply using rhetoric to stake out the moral high ground before the believers started conflating the lack of belief in any particular deity with the worship of Satan. You are correct, of course, there are as many types of atheists as there are "people of faith."


[edit on 28-3-2010 by DJW001]

its natural to be attracted to those who think alike on such a definitive topic like religion or lack of and because otherwise, and this has happend to me once and im not saying all people do it, people try to convert or debate us in rude ways when they realize our way of thinking.

P.S. if you have faith then keep it strong but please dont try to force it on others.

Atheism is not a cult or religion, its embracing facts, science and probabilities, its beliving in whats proven.

Although no facts, science or probabilities point either toward the existence of God or against it. So, I wouldn't say atheism is believing what's proven, but rather interpreting what's proven to reach a conclusion that the atheist has already long since decided on. ie. confirmation bias.

I agree that atheism isn't a religion, but you must also remember that not all atheists form their beliefs in the same manner; for example, there are plenty of atheists that don't use science or empiricism to come to their conclusions, but are more 'philosophical atheists' that base their view purely on their thoughts and musings.

Originally posted by DJW001
No, I was simply using rhetoric to stake out the moral high ground before the believers started conflating the lack of belief in any particular deity with the worship of Satan. You are correct, of course, there are as many types of atheists as there are "people of faith."


[edit on 28-3-2010 by DJW001]

Nice one, DJW.
Forgive me for not having the wit to interpret that your comments were slightly tongue-in-cheek. It's just that I have seen similar comments that are posted entirely seriously by all sides of the religious/non-religious spectrum.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Benji1999]

Originally posted by Benji1999

Atheism is not a cult or religion, its embracing facts, science and probabilities, its beliving in whats proven.

Although no facts, science or probabilities point either toward the existence of God or against it.

You just made me choke and literaly cover my laptop with beer...i'am not joking.

Now my head hurts at how to reply to your claim, where to start?....

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine

Originally posted by Ghost in the MachineI've heard it many times on ATS. "Atheism is not a religion!". Why unite then? What is your purpose of coming together? To share in your disbelief?

Atheism is not a religion as I recognise the meaning of the word because the true concept of atheism is that it rejects all notion of a supreme being without exception.

To most atheists the concept of believing in something based purely on faith is anathema and seems to be a direct contradiction to factual thinking in the liberated and truly objective sense of the word. I can tell you that myself as an atheist would have no problems with accepting the notion of a supreme being if such a being would take the minuscule step and actually prove his or her existence rather than persuade us into a belief by proxy in the form of dogma and ambiguous holy books and wealth gathering infrastructure.

However just for arguments sake lets say a god – your god suddenly decided to prove himself it would be a fruitless exercise as the time to prove his existence was back in ancient history at the birth of his concept not now after countless peoples have long since suffered at the hands of the Vatican persecutions from the inquisition and the religious strife between Catholics and Protestants to the crusades in the middle east and Lithuania.

I would, because of such blood spilt in his name while he watched and did nothing have to reject such an inactive god firstly for coming so late to the party and secondly for playing the inactive god.

As we live and breathe I must conclude objectively that there is no god and that there never was and if after my death I find out I was wrong then I will argue my case on those merits but I am one hundred percent certain I am correct in assuming the universe is without gods.

As to the idea that atheists tend to unite together I would pour cold water on that because from my understanding and speaking for myself I do not unite with a person based on their religious beliefs of lack of. I unite with people based on the type of person they are and the way they choose to interact with the world and I unite with people based on their intelligence.

I will as an example take the words of an atheist over a religious thinker time after time because from my experience not from assumption they are not as repetitive – which tends to happen with the religious as they outdo each other in voicing certain favourite passages.

My mother used to be terrible for it!

My opinion is that atheists tend to be more objective in their thinking and in general terms much more tolerant of others while being rich with thought provoking opinion that they actually formulated themselves not from what was ripped from a holy book. Anyone can regurgitate passages from a book but it is much harder and therefore much more worthy of respect to create your own passages just like we all forge our passage through life the same is true in thought as far as I am concerned.

If you choose to believe in a supreme being then sincerely my friend you go for it but all that I would ask (a very little thing) is that you keep it to yourself and do not bother my living space with it.

Live and let live, you leave me to be blissfully godless and I will leave you to be blissfully godfull – deal?

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by itchy_tartan_blanket

 

Simple. Elaborate on these 'common beliefs' that unite you?

Sure the disbelief joins your believers (

) but what unites you? *word play* I honestly can't see a purpose for those who don't believe to come together.

Tell me otherwise.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Ghost in the Machine]

I'm sorry but i don't unite with atheists with regards to their beliefs in the non-existence of a higher-being/deity/god/whatever. If you had read my first post properly you would have seen that I referred to atheists as "they" and not "we".

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
*This has seriously gone off the point. This is not a Christian/atheist bashing thread. A simple question was asked and a response should be given. People, try to be mature about this please.*

All the kids stuff aside, my original post was in no way an attack on you or your beliefs. The referral to atheists as "they" should have indicated that I am not atheist.

OK, I'll tell you something that unites atheists. Athiest bashers.

You reacted as if I attacked but your response says to me that you want to attack atheism/atheists which is a fairly common reaction by certain religious people, for instance, perhaps due to fear of what they can't comprehend or jealousy that atheists, amongst others, can live good righteous lives, similar to say many Christian groups, but have no god/gods to fear them into worship in exchange for an afterlife in a glorious place in the sky or face eternity in a fiery furnace with other evil souls.

I don't know if you are religious or not but think for a minute about the many common beliefs, values and teachings that many people hold true to from the "bibles" and texts of global religions. Whilst atheists don't believe in a deity, many live by much of what is within these writings minus the worship. A common belief that not only unites atheists but also atheists and the religious.

Have you ever noticed how hostile religious people are toward atheists? And the same can be said vice versa I suppose. But if there wasn't so much aggro between them they'd help the rest of us concentrate on other things that unite us all together as a species as opposed to highlighting the things that makes us different. Doesn't Christianity teach us that we are all equal and the same - Children of God? Or will we be like Children of the Corn?

A lot of them do come together. They are called Buddhists.

I don't see Atheism as a religion, but an organization. They are here to prove( or could care less) there is no supreme being exists, and everything happened by accident.