Massive Federal Raid in Lenawee County

reply to post by whatukno


Which is also an interesting distinction. The President is Commander In Chief of all armed forces (including the militias of the several states when called into action) but only Congress can call forth the militia for duty but only "to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;"

So while we are on our Intrepid hunt, only Congress could activate us into service (if they recognized us as a legitimate militia). But under the Second Amendment, as private citizens we could self-activate (regardless of our recognized legitimacy status by Congress) so long as we were insuring a free state.

It is by the Second, that militias form to watchdog the government, by threat of force if need be. And here is where things get really interesting. Did this group just go schitzo on threats or had they made a reasonable petition of grievances and allowed time for an appropriate response? Was this raid a response to their petitions, since discussion of action had begun? Those are some questions that should be answered sufficiently to be sure that the raid itself was legitimate.

I once joked that health care reform would give us all palm lights (like Logan's Run) to counter the fears of ID Chips and Death Panels. But what if this group really feared such things (and being a Christian militia group focused on fighting the anti-christ, they may have) and asked these things and were ignored repeatedly? Or were even lied to and said it was in there by the government officials they contacted?

Not everything is simple black and white. They may have had a legitimate (albeit misguided) reason for their actions from their point of view.

WMD's!? We didn't even find any in Iraq. I must have missed the news about Iraq sending all their WMD's to a christian militia. This whole story stinks. First its because they hate muslims, then because they have pipe bombs.....and now they have plotted to kill cops!? Come on...REALLY!?

reply to post by LordBaskettIV


What would these militias have accomplished by killing cops?

That is a question that should be examined.

They would have victimized law enforcement and likely turned public opinion strongly against them.

Unless the plot was a contingency plan in the event of some civil war, where law enforcement was targeting civilians.

It all seems a bit crazy no matter how you look at it, but remember who is in control of the information.

Bottom line, they needed to eliminate a potential threat and I will bet you this is only the beginning.

Maybe next week they will be raiding the homes of ATS members and making arrests?

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
WMD's!? We didn't even find any in Iraq. I must have missed the news about Iraq sending all their WMD's to a christian militia. This whole story stinks. First its because they hate muslims, then because they have pipe bombs.....and now they have plotted to kill cops!? Come on...REALLY!?

I was thinking the same thing,

We need a new definition of WMD's?

Something doesn't jive here. First of all, how do you 'serve' a sealed warrant? All 9 of these people arrested should be holding a copy of this warrant in the Wayne County Jail where they are being held. After they were properly detained, they should have been read and received a copy of this warrant describing what the FBI/ATF/County Sheriff aka Operation FALCON was doing there. Second, the web site has been taken down(again I did not copy the entire site by viewing the source) so I can't use it for reference other than the fact that the 4 videos posted are 2 minute 'montage' of them running around in a slightly wooded field with some heavy metal music in the background, NOT TRAINING VIDEOS. The youtube channel is still up and has not been accessed yet, (they should have used the acrylic covered fox holes to avoid the infrared instead of calling the SE Michigan Militia to hide them). A real Militia man would have way more creative. Here is an example:

Fremont, MI July 16, 2003

Scott Allen Woodring is served a warrant by two state police officers, he shoots them both when they serve the warrant. To make a long story short, the police and swat come and surround the house. They have a stand off for 24 hours, then decide to launch a tear gas grenade into the home where Woodring is held up in. The house burns to the ground. After sifting through the rubble they find no body. "How?" you ask yourself.

Woodring dresses up in full cammos, grabs a rifle, and positions himself bye a woodpile next to his house, like he is a member of the swat team. 4 hours later he gets up and walks away when the swat team is doing its shift change. He disappears into the state park and is later gunned down by his sisters house a week or so later.

I would like to know the names and faces of these people. If not, I would tend to believe this is a hoax by the government to suppress the Militia groups as previously discussed in this thread.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Can someone explain to me what is going on out in Michigan? The FBI and US Army are arresting militia members and the militia is preparing for battle? Why is this not on the news? I would think that if we had another Waco type incident it would be on the news by now.

Exactly...

Something of this magnitude should be all over every MSM outlet. Why is it when I turn on the news they're talking about how some firemen rescued a little girls puppy from the LA River?

Either this is an illegal raid, on people who really do pose a threat to TPTB, or maybe they just dont want any people waking up and realizing how close to the brink we are in this country. Who knows? Maybe it will start a domino effect and more and more people will sympathize with the militia mans plight.

Sure to be interesting to watch how this plays out....guess its time to make sure the ol' toys are clean and well lubricated

Does anyone really believe this explanation? Plotting to kill a cop and then attacking the funeral? Wow, I must hand it off to the people in the J Edgar Hoover Building for coming up with the lamest excuse ever. First they allegedly want to blow up a mosque and now they want to massacre cops at another cop's funeral ... give me a break. That is the most asinine plot I have ever heard.

What they are really doing is testing the waters too see how many militia members they can round up before they hit resistance. Today it's the militias, tomorrow is the gunowners, and then it's all the dissenters (the membership of ATS, Free Republic, the conservative bloggers, etc).

Purpose of a sealed warrant.

What do you think? I think a sealed warrant is issued so that anything they find can be used against you.

Let us say they were doing a raid for drugs and found illegal guns. Well, you could not use the illegal guns.

So, hmmmmm, how to get around this. Well we just use a sealed warrant. So whatever we find, bingo!

Sounds like a plan to me.

This group may have been just bad apples .

The warrant for arrest was from a grand jury .

i2.cdn.turner.com...

Grand jury warrants are harder to misuse than regular arrest or search warrants . You need a group of people to agree rather than just a judge and a law officer .

This may be on the up and up .

But the ever changing story really bothers me . Pipe bombs Islamic group or killing cops which is it .

And the call to other militia to hide a member could have simply been a ploy to allow for a search warrant served against a second group which could allow for all sorts of side items to be found and used for arrests .

I am not sure which way it is but I am going to watch very closely the militia and LEO s for a while

Originally posted by endisnighe
Purpose of a sealed warrant.

What do you think? I think a sealed warrant is issued so that anything they find can be used against you.

"The very fact of the subject's innocence is suspicious and indicative of guilt."

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
This group may have been just bad apples .

The warrant for arrest was from a grand jury .

i2.cdn.turner.com...

Grand jury warrants are harder to misuse than regular arrest or search warrants . You need a group of people to agree rather than just a judge and a law officer .

This may be on the up and up .

But the ever changing story really bothers me . Pipe bombs Islamic group or killing cops which is it .

And the call to other militia to hide a member could have simply been a ploy to allow for a search warrant served against a second group which could allow for all sorts of side items to be found and used for arrests .

I am not sure which way it is but I am going to watch very closely the militia and LEO s for a while

There will always be dangerous nutters, but I am going to seriously reserve judgment on this case until I know a hell of a lot more about it.

I am more curious right now as to the "militia on the move" in Michigan right now. The guys under arrest are out of the situation, I want to know what the numbers of people still out there are and what they are going to do.

I do not buy offhand buy that there are hundreds on the move right now to launch a counterattack against the government. I think that could very well be wishful thinking on the part of militia supporters. If they do however, it will end very badly for them. Shooting from the hip at Uncle Sam is always a loosing idea.

Definitions for those who would like them:

The US Code provides several different definitions of weapons of mass destruction, applicable in different contexts:
For the general purposes of national defense,[19] US Code[20] defines a weapon of mass destruction as:
"any weapon or device that is intended, or has the capability, to cause death or serious bodily injury to a significant number of people through the release, dissemination, or impact of—
toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors;
a disease organism; or
radiation or radioactivity."[21]

For the purposes of the prevention of weapons proliferation,[22] US Code defines weapons of mass destruction as:
"chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, and chemical, biological, and nuclear materials used in the manufacture of such weapons."[23]
For the purposes of US Criminal law concerning terrorism,[24] weapons of mass destruction are defined as:
"any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title;
any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector ...; or
any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life."[25]

The cited section 921 defines a destructive device as:
"any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces [113 grams], missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce [7 grams], mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses...."[26]

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's definition is similar to that presented above from the terrorism statute:
"Any explosive or incendiary device, as defined in Title 18 USC, Section 921: bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, mine, or other device with a charge of more than four ounces;
Any weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors;
Any weapon involving a disease organism; or
Any weapon designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life."[27]

en.wikipedia.org...

Reading the indictment, looks like the last applied and was related to IEDs/mines.

Sedition, eh?

Nice. I guess at least we now have an answer to the question 'who would jesus kill?' - cops!

[edit on 29-3-2010 by melatonin]

Charges sound ginned up to me. It think it would be a first for a militia to adopt the tactics of muslim terrorists. What with the secondary explosion and all. Just just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

Maybe a way to go after dissent under the pretext of domestic terrorism?


[edit on 29-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by melatonin

Nice. I guess at least we now have an answer to the question 'who would jesus kill?' - cops!

Not nice, Melatonin, really not nice. I really expected more from you.

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf


Attacking a funeral is not at all exclusive to Islamic terrorism, neither are secondary explosions. The IRA and the UDA did as much to each other over Northern Ireland, street gangs and mafias hit funerals and let us not forget the Basques.

These are not so-called Muslim ideas, they are just effective means of maximizing death and terror. No one side side has a monopoly on evil.

reply to post by melatonin


Wow. Thanks for sharing. Looks like Saddam really DID have WMD's.

I figured WMD's were limited to weaponry that could take out entire villages or something.

Crazy...

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by melatonin

 

Wow. Thanks for sharing. Looks like Saddam really DID have WMD's.

Perhaps that was the plan on defining them...

I could see Cheney at the mission accomplished ceremony 'we found 6 cherry bombs, 2 firecrackers, and a Catherine wheel in Saddam's cupboard!'

I figured WMD's were limited to weaponry that could take out entire villages or something.

Crazy...

Yeah, not exactly what I would label as a WMD.

And for Jenny, don't be so uptight. But I do apologise if it came across that bad.

The part that says: The indictment said those explosive devices, commonly called IEDs, constitute weapons of mass destruction.

That is really insane logic on the part of law enforcement. I am not sure a judge would accept that explanation or definition. So dynamite is now, under this definition, a WMD. There must be more to this story as the logic doesn't flow correctly or is stretched.

www.nytimes.com...

WASHINGTON — Nine members of a Michigan-based Christian militia group have been indicted on sedition and weapons charges in connection with an alleged plot to murder law enforcement officers in hopes of setting off an anti-government uprising.

In court filings unsealed Monday, the Justice Department accused the nine people of planning to kill an unidentified law enforcement officer, then plant improvised explosive devices of a type used by insurgents in Iraq to attack the funeral procession.

Eight of the defendants were arrested over the weekend in raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. A ninth remained at large, the Justice Department said. The indictments against them were returned last Tuesday. The defendants were identified as members of Hutaree, described by federal prosecutors as an anti-government extremist organization based in Lenawee County, Michigan, and which advocates violence against local, state and federal law enforcement. The group saw local and state police as “foot soldiers” for the federal government, which it viewed as its enemy, along with participants in what they deemed to be a “New World Order,” according to the indictment.
.

The indictment charged that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants — led by David Brian Stone, 45, who also used the name “Captain Hutaree” — developed a conspiracy that they hoped would result in a war against the United States government. They allegedly decided they would kill a local law enforcement officer, and then bomb the funeral caravan. The killings “would intimidate and demoralize law enforcement diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective,” it said.

Afterward, the indictment said, Hutaree members would retreat to several “rally points” and wage war against the government, using prepared fighting positions as well as “trip-wired and command-detonated” bombs.

“It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-spread uprising against the government,” the indictment said.

Mr. Stone used the Internet to obtain diagrams of “explosively formed projectiles,” a particularly lethal form of roadside bombs responsible for many deaths of United States soldiers in Iraq, the indictment says.

All nine people face the charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction, and carrying a firearm during a crime of violence. In addition, Mr. Stone and one of his sons, David Brian Stone Jr., has been charged with teaching the use of explosive materials.

.

Originally posted by antonia
Fox brings out the crazy argument. Apparently these guys were getting ready for the Antichrist.

we all should be preparing !!!!
the anti-Christ is already here
and he has multiple arms
and multiple heads
and wings that cover
the entire world
his name????

NWO