How does it feel?

How does it feel to know that while you work hard and struggle to make ends meat there is someone collecting money from welfare and living the same, if not better than you do.


(Please note that I am basing this on our system in Canada, but I think other countries have roughly the same system.)


Case in point:


I have a very good friend of mine that has been on welfare since she had her first child at 18 years old. Since then she has had 2 other children, all from different fathers, and she collects child support from each of them. She also receives a child tax benefit, or what we call a “baby bonus” and $100/each per month universal child care benefit for her two youngest children. (Everyone gets this in Ontario, Canada, until child is 6 years old.)


In total she makes approx. $2500/ month, which may not sound like much to live on considering the rising cost of housing, food and pretty much everything else. HOWEVER, take into account the fact that she is on public housing, so only pays about $180/month (for a 4br house). Also take into account the fact that she does not pay for daycare, which is the second largest cost of living for people with children.


Now take my sister and her husband for example. They make about $4000/month. They pay aprox. $1400/month for rent, (for a 3br townhome.) They pay $750/month for daycare for one child (and they are lucky, some people can pay upwards of $1500/month depending on location.)They also receive a pitiful “baby bonus” and the $100 Universal Child Care Benefit.


This is not including the GST credit, sales tax credit and other benefits my friend gets that my sister and her husband aren’t eligible for because they make “too much money”.


For the purpose of this thread I am not going to get into too many details about all the smaller bills but the math is PLAIN AS DAY! After they each pay the most important bills my friend, who is on WELFARE, puts more money in her pocket than my sister and brother in law together, who both work full time.

I am not here to judge my friend, or any one else on welfare. Everyone has their reasons, and I fully support the system when it is used as it should be. Temporarily. Or for someone who is truly disabled and truly cannot work.


I do blame the system that has made her, and so many others, have no drive or ambition to make it on their own.


So now my question is WHY! Why do we have a system that rewards those who don’t work and punishes those who do? Why is it that the more money I make the more I have to give away to support other people? Why doesn’t this money go towards our schools, communities and yes, healthcare!


And why does our government(s) let it get to a point that, like my friend, a person comes to accept this as a way of life?

[edit on 3/27/2010 by Hatcookie]

It feels great, because I am on welfare! Just kidding, I'm a student right now but yeah if I was working hard and someone else sat around and got the same paycheck as me I would be very frustrated. I believe it was immortal technique who said "I get unemployment you work and we makin the same s***" .However most unemployed people now don't just live off the system they are looking for jobs and taking whatever they can get.

Also, this may be out of line, but your friend sounds like a real pisser.

Lastly, I believe there are people who believe they need the population of the world to be dependant on government so they can justify going to a more powerful government, leading to a worldwide government.
They want the people to beg for government to protect them and help them instead of taking over by force.

By no means am I justifying the welfare life style, but I just want to say I hope those who do not wish to be in that situation strive for something better in life rather than working at a dead end job.

Originally posted by time91

Also, this may be out of line, but your friend sounds like a real pisser.

Not out of line at all, I often think the same thing myself. I find myself cringing sometimes when she shows up with her latest expensive purse or pair of shoes.

And yes, its very annoying when I accually work, make decent cash and cant afford to indulge myself like she does.

However I'm not really talking about unemployment, I am talking about welfare and people who have no intention of getting off of it.

I agree with you about it giving the government more control, because they seem to make it a little too cushy for people to want to do anything else...

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


But isn't having any kind of job better than nothing? Or is it better to live off the system indefinetly?

reply to post by Hatcookie


We definitely have the same problem in the U.S. My aunt is now finally working after her kids are grown up. She was on welfare for about 20+ years while her ex paid her and the state paid her. Meanwhile my mom and dad had to work constantly just to barely make it. Her main problem was drugs and I believe that she may finally be straight and thats why she isn't riding the system anymore. You can walk around my town and see all the people in public housing driving nicer cars than me (though some do work). It is a real shame but as someone said it seems intentional. These people depend on the government and pose no real threat to our governments control. Welfare reform is needed badly but I don't see it happening. I think after two years on it, a drug test would be necessary and failure would lead to some form of punishment. My next best thing would be a "task force" to look into the disability/welfare fraud if it is reasonably suspected. We would probably need to end the wars first though.

people like that make me SO upset. they give people on welfare a really bad image. i've been on social assistance for a little over 2 years now, i had to stop working due to a medical issue, and i was denied ODSP because im likely to improve over time. so for the current moment i receive OW (ontario works, aka welfare) and im working with a job agency that specifically assists people with disabilities or other barriers to employment. im going to give work another try and if i find my medical issue is still to debilitating then i'll try applying for disability again. but i hate it. im bored, i dont like not being productive...but at the same time, its very hard for me to find work thats suitable for my health issue. i also want to attend university in the next year or so as well...i hate seeing people just sit around on welfare and not do anything to better themselves...just drives me nuts. because it makes people who legitimately need help look bad too

Originally posted by Hatcookie
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

 

But isn't having any kind of job better than nothing? Or is it better to live off the system indefinetly?

if you get more money from the system, then its probably really hard to make the change, they dont want to downgrade on income. people become dependant on their social assistance. it makes it really hard to get back into the working world for some folks i guess.

reply to post by Hatcookie


I sort of take offense to your OP, if you are including people who take disability as well that is (I know you didn't say that but it sort of seems like you're implying it).

I have some mental disorders, as well as physical pain that makes it hard for me to work a steady job. I truly wish I could, and I am not receiving any money from the government right now, but I will be in the future using the SSI system.

I have bipolar which really makes it hard for me to work - I also have horrible insomnia which makes it impossible for me to regulate my sleep so it would be nearly impossible for me to (at least right now) work a job unless it was from home (and I can't even find a job right now anyway!).

Disregard this post if you are leaving out people like myself.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


i think the people the OP is referring to, are people who are completely capable of working, but dont, because they seem to get more money living off of the system.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


Im sorry that you take offence to my op, I specifically stated that I support welfare for someone who truly needs it such as some one with a disability, medical condition ect. That is what the system is there for.

What I am complaining about is people who abuse it and how easy it is too abuse.

Again, sorry, but you should read the entire op before you jump to conclusions.

Originally posted by devilishlyangelic23

Originally posted by Hatcookie
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

 

But isn't having any kind of job better than nothing? Or is it better to live off the system indefinetly?

if you get more money from the system, then its probably really hard to make the change, they dont want to downgrade on income. people become dependant on their social assistance. it makes it really hard to get back into the working world for some folks i guess.

And this is exactly what I mean. It has come to the point that a person smakes more money on assistance than they do in a real job.

When they determine how much money your going to get, they figure out your cost of living. The fact that most people will make more on assistance goes to show how inflated and backwards our economy is.

Either that, or they make it more profitable intentionally, keeping the sheeple beneath the governments thumb.

You could fill 100+ pages on ATS with similar stories. Sometimes I blame the people, and sometimes I simply blame the system that allows it.

My girlfriend was receiving SSI and was told that she would only receive benefits if she made less than $21,500K per year. However, she would also receive additional benefits to add money to her income should she make less than $21,500.

In other words, the government always made sure she made $21,500 per year plus SSI which gave her another $1500 per month for her and her son. ($750 each)

Then, she received a job offer making $35K per year. She took it and then proudly stated: See...after 6 years I am finally off the system.

Unfortunately, after working for 3 months, she realized she was making less money than when she lived off the system. So, gee, after taking a couple of days off a few weeks in a row, she got fired. Now, she collects unemployment and SSI. That was 18 months ago. Given the recession, her unemployment benefits continue to get reinstated without her having to show any proof of looking for employment -- which she is not. Nor does she have any intention.

Now she proudly states: I will live off the system forever.

Did I mention that she owns a $350K house outright -- that her Daddy paid for and sold to her for a dollar? Doesn't even get taken into account.

The system is terribly broken.
There are people that genuinely need it.
And then there are a bunch that simply enjoy the ride.

Originally posted by devilishlyangelic23
people like that make me SO upset. they give people on welfare a really bad image. i've been on social assistance for a little over 2 years now, i had to stop working due to a medical issue, and i was denied ODSP because im likely to improve over time. so for the current moment i receive OW (ontario works, aka welfare) and im working with a job agency that specifically assists people with disabilities or other barriers to employment. im going to give work another try and if i find my medical issue is still to debilitating then i'll try applying for disability again. but i hate it. im bored, i dont like not being productive...but at the same time, its very hard for me to find work thats suitable for my health issue. i also want to attend university in the next year or so as well...i hate seeing people just sit around on welfare and not do anything to better themselves...just drives me nuts. because it makes people who legitimately need help look bad too

This is why we have welfare, for people who are denied unemployment or disability and are left with no other options.

I agree with you, its people who don't even try to better themselves that drive me nuts too.

I hope everything works out well for you, you should go back to university, you may end up with a better job than you had before!

reply to post by lpowell0627


Why don't we all quit our jobs and live off the system, then we can see how long it takes to come crashing down!

Hey, you want a revolution? This is probably the best way to do it!

Originally posted by Hatcookie
How does it feel to know that while you work hard and struggle to make ends meat there is someone collecting money from welfare and living the same, if not better than you do.

It feels real bad. Especially when the people in question are officers of banking companies bailed out by the government that refuse to lend with their taxpayer/fed free cash but seem to have no problem awarding themselves 8-figure bonuses.

As for more general-public welfare, yes there are people malingering and gaming the system and the laws against that need to be inforced. There are also a number of dubious public officials with enormous salaries, benefits, and pensions relative to the general populace.

In all fairness I think we need to look at all these groups and others. Business welfare is every bit as egregious as grassroots-level welfare violations.

It makes me feel like people who choose to make threads on topics like this need to study, study, study before they do. Stop basing assumptions on somebody you know, and what you have been told by someone who abuses the system, hates the system, or doesnt' understand the system any better than the OP.

When people come to me with this type complaint I recommend "if you know someone who is abusing the system, report them!" There are laws against fraud, and these are typically investigated and prosecuted. Yes, yes indeed they are. You'll never know this of course if you only complain about it and take no action to deal with the deception.

Reporting is better than creating more ignorant discourse about a subject that has been beaten to death.

Originally posted by Hatcookie
I do blame the system that has made her, and so many others, have no drive or ambition to make it on their own.

I totally disagree. The system is there for people who need it. Those who abuse the system and take undue advantage of it (such as your friend) ARE to blame. Your friend is to blame and it's your duty to report them. YOU are knowingly allowing the system to be abused. A "system" cannot take away someone's ambition or drive. That's is up to the person in every case.

Why do we have a system that rewards those who don’t work and punishes those who do?

Again, the "system" does not reward or punish. People either abuse it or use it when they need it and get back on their feet.

To answer your question: How do I feel about it? I don't like it. But I don't blame the "system". I blame the people who abuse it. The system, while imperfect, is a good thing. It's the abusers who are to blame.

i actualy studied welfare and it turns out to fuel more reckless behavior than decline it... ask this question, if you give a dog to much leash how long will it take before it decides it doesnt need to obey its trainer?

reply to post by ECWSANDMAN13


You studied "welfare" and yet you compare human beings to dogs?

Volumes have been written on this subject. Universitie's research it on a regular basis trying to discover remedies, National and Global committees are appointed to study it, trying to remedy flaws and refine it, with the intention of eventually having a society where it is needed only for short periods, in the process and thereby eliminating "generational poverty".

Generational poverty is a very complex social and economic problem. Do you propose cutting it off?

In your welfare class, did you discuss the "Haves" and the "Have Nots"?
Did you learn that most of the "Have Nots" are children? Did you discuss what the "Have-Nots" might do, if you suddenly cut them off?

Think they are going to cry for a few minutes, then go get a job?
Think again.