How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

The commerce clause? Bwahaha. Every radical leftist and wannabe totalitarian cites the commerce clause for their schemes.

If the commerce clause is to be interpreted in this fashion then their is no limit on government power.

Next.

I said it once I will say it again:

Lets not forget:
1. The suppression of unalienable rights given to every man, woman, and child.
2. The killing of innocent people to gain power and resources.
3. The lying to the people in order to keep them blind from their crimes.
4. Waging war without just cause, or consulting the people.
5. The inhumane occupation of other free people purely for selfish motives.
6. The manipulation of media to suit their agenda.
7. Creating false acts of aggression as an excuse to wage war and control people.
8. Shunning and killing others based on race, religion, or beliefs.
9. Experimenting on innocent people just to satisfy their curiosity.
10. Torturing people.
11. Forcing people to confess to things they did not do.
12. Selling and buying people as if they are items, not humans.
13. Corrupting governments to suit their own needs.
14. Attempting to establish a one world government that is all powerful.
15. Killing
16. Holding or killing people without a trial of peers.
17. Attempting to commit genocide on a global level.
18. Tampering in free elections.
19. Tampering in trials.
20. Allowing their own people to escape from the consequences of their actions.
21. Taking control of a free economy.
22. Forcing people to use their educational, health, military, and other systems.
23. Abusing their power.
24. Invasion of privacy in all aspects of life.
25. Putting resources above people’s well being.
26. Keeping secrets from the people.
27. Censoring information.
28. Destroying families.
29. Brain washing people.
30. Causing ridiculous taxes on the middle class.
31. Unnecessary searches and seizures.
32. Placing standing armies that could and would be used against us.
33. Interfering in religion.
34. Suppressing of the freedom of speech.
35. Unnecessary acts of violence against peaceful people.
36. Destroying peace and sovereignty.
37. Enslaving people.
38. Destruction of the environment.
39. Attempting to take over the world.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by kinda kurious


Those are not good comparisons at all...this is a tax based on existing...simply based on living.

Its not going to pay for roads or cover liability if you hit someone in your car, nor is it like home owners insurance where you are covering your butt incase of a law suit.

This is forcing us to purchase a product for the benifit of those 30 million people who want health care that is paid for with our tax dollars.

Thats what makes this so horrible and an attack on our personal freedoms.

Yes it's the end of the world blah blah..go turnover D.C. and hang the majority.....
The Conservatives were right all along!

At least something got done. Now all we need to do is end the war, transfer the taxes funding war to funding education and we're all good. Any argument against that last one is completely invalid...

States rights, yeah right. The federal government does not recognize the states rights to anything. Look at the civil war. If you try to leave the union, you will pay a terrible price, that's how they run things.

you say this isn't a rich vs poor fight. The hell it isn't. What do you think those special interests are? big oil, big pharma etc. otherwise known as THE RICH are the very special interests which make America an awful place. The courts and the politicians have made it very clear they will side with big corporations over the people time and time again. Why would they do this instead of being the good public servants representative of the peoples will? Because they got a pay off from some lobbyists.

as for the government stealing from you. They have been doing that all along. I loath the idea of any of my money paying for these wars in the middle east and yet 50% of my taxes go to the defense budget. If I don't pay taxes the IRS will drop a huge fine on me, and the IRS is not constitutionally even supposed to exist, yet if I don't pay I will end up in prison. More proof that I'm just a slave wage earner and if I don't want to play ball I can rot in jail. Those are the choices we get.

as for people in other countries being dumbfounded. It's probably because they already have universal health care and they look at us like some sort of backwards hillbilly cave-men for not having universal health care. I want it. Most Americans want it. The corporations don't, they would lose money, and so it never happens. The corporations own America.

Man. I feel bad for you if your living in your car. I lost one house already from this economy but I got in another and I have a ton of roommates so that I can afford to have a roof over my head even though I make slave-wages and I seem to be making less money and working harder for it every year for 3 years running now.

I tell you what though. If I was on the streets, I would be very mad. Mad enough to start setting fire to things, cause you see. 'Some people can't be reasoned with. Some people just want to watch the world burn.'

I voted for Obama and I hoped this would pass. So I'm not pissed. I can't afford insurance but I have 4 years to sort that out. The bill does some good mostly for kids and young adults up to age 26. The whole elimination of pre-existing conditions as an excuse to drop coverage is wonderful. It's a crying shame we need to do so much arm twisting to get these insurance companies to do whats right. When you need to force a company to do the very service it claims it is providing from the onset, that is ridiculous. I also hoped this would pass because the Republicans said it would be Obamas waterloo and they have been doing everything in their power to be obstructionist about everything. Our country is in crisis and they want to grind the legislative process to a halt just to score political points and to diminish the effectiveness of the Democrats. That's criminal. To hell with them. I never want to see another Republican in power again after the Bush years. That stooge is worse than hitler. Bush ruined America. I want that jerk castrated and staked out in the desert left to die of exposure. Him and Cheney and all the other Neo-cons need to die as soon as possible. Die and go back to hell where you belong.

I also would like to make the point that at first people loved health care reform, they only stopped loving it when the bill got watered down to near uselessness. After the Republican had spread so much lies and misinformation. Fear mongering. People got uncertain because they heard so many lies. I think its criminal that they use fear and confusion to sway public opinion. I think it's criminal that they try to derail our whole legislative process and drive the populace into a frenzy.

I hope you don't think I'm totally defending the Democrats. I hate them too. What I want is a party that will give us universal health care, end the wars, slash the defense budget in half, eliminate the IRS and the FED, restore the Constitution and then abide by it. Burn all the law books and the lawyers and give us a law book that a toddler could read and understand. If ignorance of the law is no excuse then there is no excuse for making the law so complex and convoluted. We need our damn space program back too. Bloody hell, we are quickly turning into a third world country. I don't like it.

Bwahahaahaha. "Transfer the war funding to education."

Spoken like a true retard.

You could spend $1 million per pupil and the schools would still get worse.

Detroit spends ~$11,000 (~$10,000 natioal average) per pupil and has one of the most abysmal systems in the country.

CUT funding to education by ~$4,000 per pupil, eliminate the department of education and outlaw the monopolistic teachers' union. Only then will education improve.

This may seem like a non-sequitir, but this is precisely the mode of thinking that engenders tyranny in healthcare, education, whatever. ZOMG SPEND MORE MONEY SPEND MORE MONEY IT WILL ONLY WORK IF YOU SPEND MORE MONEY GIVE THE GOVERNMENT MORE MONEY THEY"LL MAKE IT WORK ELEVENTY!!111!!!!.

BTW Charter schools do it for ~$7,000 per pupil and actually teach kids (particulalry minority, inner city kids), Just like private health care can provide care more efficiently and cheaper than gov't (if gov't allows it).

BTW make sure to remind any of the Obama voters in your life that they're fracking retarded and just invited the vampire inside (the one thing you're not supposed to do!).

Originally posted by paraphi
Is this not what democracy is all about? Get an issue, argue about it and make the necessary concessions etc., then vote on it.

Oh, I know the losers often cry "foul", but then if the result had gone the other way...

Sorry to simplify it, but there you are. If you do not like it then the next time you vote you make your vote count and maybe the issue which has got you so vexed will be changed.

Regards

These Unites States are not a democracy we are a republic:

Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

-Thomas Jefferson

Democracy is the tyranny of the majority.



[edit on 3/24/2010 by dalan.]

Originally posted by whatukno
Article I Section 8 United States Constitution gives congress the power to regulate commerce among the states. This includes healthcare. This nullifies the 10th Amendment argument because it is a power that congress does have.

It's not a perfect law, but it is a constitutional one.

Seriously?

They are talking about the commercial interactions between the States.

Health Care is private.

You should go out and buy me some food, if you don't you will either be fined or imprisoned...I mean, grocery shopping is a commercial transaction right?

Its for the good of the community isn't it Comrade?

[edit on 3/24/2010 by dalan.]

Well if ya don't like how we do things in America then get out!

I always wanted to say that, it has been said to me for years by conservatives and rednecks.

Seriously stop bitching.
Everybody getting healthcare is a good thing, so it will cost us some more money. Atleast our brothers and sisters who couldn't get care now can. THAT IS A GOOD THING!

But I understand, money is more important then peoples lives and well being to some.

Originally posted by Subjective1
Well if ya don't like how we do things in America then get out!

I always wanted to say that, it has been said to me for years by conservatives and rednecks.

Seriously stop bitching.
Everybody getting healthcare is a good thing, so it will cost us some more money. Atleast our brothers and sisters who couldn't get care now can. THAT IS A GOOD THING!

But I understand, money is more important then peoples lives and well being to some.

I do not have health care, nor do I want people paying for it for me.

This concept is completely socialist.

I will not pay for another person's health care.

Are you going to make me? I didn't think so.

I will not have mandatory health insurance.

In fact, I would rather rot in prison than to be forced to do anything.


[edit on 3/24/2010 by dalan.]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I'm a bit offended by those of you who are telling him to relax.

Are you really not worried about what has transpired here? Do you really understand what kind of ridiculous precedent this sets for Congress if they are allowed to act this way?

I agree, and I think many people in this country have become complacent. I'm seeing about as many angry people who oppose the bill, as I am people who are for it. Then there are those who don't really care at all and want to get back to their wii, ipod, cell phones and dancing with the stars.

I couldn't help but laugh though when someone said "we got 4 years, relax". So when ARE we supposed to get upset about this?

I wonder how much longer it will take for America to feel disenfranchised enough before they finally wake up?

To be honest with you, I don't think anything will change. I don't think anything will happen beyond the angry talk on the internet and radio shows.

Obama and company have spent the entirety of the Bush years seeing how easy it is to take advantage of our rights... and people are going to lay down and just take it.

Now that they got this far, what will it be next my friends? You just wait. You'll see.. it's going to be something else, then something else after that. And here we'll be.

I honestly do believe that the majority of America is so involved with their technology and their TV's that they don't want to lose these comforts.

The people who are joyful about this are the ones who don't mind government taking care of them. If that's their choice then good for them. But it's not my choice. America is supposed to be about choice.

If I don't want to purchase car insurance or have a driver license, then I simply do not own or drive cars.

If I dont' want to participate in traditional medicine, I don't purchase health insurance plans.

Yes we have 4 years until this mandate goes into effect, IF it makes this far, but I'm not going to spend the next 4 years chillaxing in front of my wii and pretending that I don't need to concern myself with the future.





[edit on 24-3-2010 by Asherah]

I get the fact that if you CHOOSE to drive, you must get insurance. But I do not CHOOSE to live, so there can be no mandatory anything just for being alive. whats next breathing taxes? thinking taxes. this is theft, and we will not stand for it.

reply to post by Subjective1


What are you talking about? Not everyone will be getting health care. This bill does nothing for those who are not already insured.

great thread SKL.

I am against this HC reform. America cant afford it... PERIOD!

Originally posted by Dometheus
Lets not forget:
1. The suppression of unalienable rights given to every man, woman, and child.
2. The killing of innocent people to gain power and resources.
3. The lying to the people in order to keep them blind from their crimes.
4. Waging war without just cause, or consulting the people.
5. The inhumane occupation of other free people purely for selfish motives.

Sounds similar to what was done to Native Americans. Only now they do it to all of America. History does indeed repeat itself.

Originally posted by tracer7
I get the fact that if you CHOOSE to drive, you must get insurance. But I do not CHOOSE to live, so there can be no mandatory anything just for being alive. whats next breathing taxes? thinking taxes. this is theft, and we will not stand for it.

Well the answer is simple isn't it?

Some people really scare the crap out of me on this forum.
It's always me, me , me and # the rest.
No wonder we live in this pile of crap world.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


you're living out of your car??!!!

egads man. where ? i mean what state?

Originally posted by kinda kurious
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Duuuuude. Chillax.

Regarding "Mandatory Insurance"

Currently, in the USA:

If you drive a car, you need insurance.

If you own a house, you need insurance.

If you have a wife, children or dependents, you should have life insurance. Simply prudent.

I view this as much the same way.

Did I really say Chillax?

The people that tell you to calm down are the people that piss you off in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DONT FORGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVIROMENTAL PROTECTION
JOIN US

[edit on 24-3-2010 by DjSharperimage]