How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

reply to post by centurion1211


you may have to wait a long time for a transplant or a corrective eye surgery but if you have an appendicitis you are operated right away. thata what I said

Well, how long did we have to hear the infamous and incorrect "Bush lied" from the left?

So in all fairness, how does this sound regarding obamacare and many other issues with this administration:

Obama lied and Obama bribed.

BTW, both can be considered impeachable offenses.

Must be why at least one congressman is asking for a special prosecutor to be named to investigate the obama administration.

CBS News article

Rep. Darrell Issa, the top Republican on the House Oversight committee, told CBS News Wednesday that he will call for a special prosecutor to investigate the White House if it does not address Rep. Joe Sestak's claim that he was offered a federal job in exchange for dropping out of the Pennsylvania Senate primary.

"If the public doesn't receive a satisfactory answer, the next step would be to call for a special prosecutor, which is well within the statute," Issa (pictured) told Hotsheet.

First obama was "carter II", now could he also end up being "clinton II" - all rolled into one?

Originally posted by derfred33
reply to post by centurion1211

 

you may have to wait a long time for a transplant or a corrective eye surgery but if you have an appendicitis you are operated right away. thata what I said

So, for example, you might have to stay on kidney dialysis for up to 2 years while waiting for a transplant under socialized medicine? Of course, you could just die in the meantime, and problem solved (for the government) ...

IMO , that is not progress or benevolent. That is barbaric.

We need new government. One where the people actually rule. Do away with electing house and senate politicians. Make serving in congress like jury duty. Everyone of age name’s goes into pool, every 4 years new members are randomly picked from pool. Not only would that cut down on corruption, it would force schools to actually teach the constitution. No more career politician as everyone would only be allowed to serve one 4 year term in their lifetime. Pay would be the national average for the US. I can dream.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Never before has an administration reached so far beyond the limits imposed by that document; and your blatant disregard for it and for our country’s social structure not only sickens me; it scares me.

You sound sick and scared and almost as if you are writing from an asylum. Are you?

reply to post by centurion1211


What do warriors do on their days off?


I mean... when there is no war?




They

try

to

start

one.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Well, how long did we have to hear the infamous and incorrect "Bush lied" from the left?

Haven't you "inadvertently" omitted part of that phrase?

"When Bush lied, Soldiers died." In response to:When Clinton lied, nobody died?

U.S. deaths to date 4,386. www.icasualties.org...

In case you haven't noticed, President Obama is attempting to SAVE lives.

Or is it simply more innuendo and diversion? And you accuse me of off-topic deflection, laughable.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

I feel it is of good horse sense to evaluate the events of the day with events of the past to see if they measure up.


Old document, source of many issues for the world

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

In other words, when I have had enough, I have a basic right to tell you to shove it.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Part of this I disagree with. Not all are equal. Its a paradox in a sense. I can only put it this way. Of three recent women I will agree that each is 100% different, but all have the same beauty and blessings as females

The best way to put it is no matter what differences in the US all are equal in treatment by the government. This treatment is supposed to extend to the court and to access to the government. The reality is that recently a few are more equal then the rest.

Oddly enough once again the emotional value is high and it states I have the right to tell you to kiss my arse...

Of note, this might be a helluve a clause to throw at SCOTUS when they hear it. Add in violation of the right to access. Oddly enough this document may have secured it under a grand father clause....

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

I know, I know... DONT throw the baby out with the bath water....

The old curse about the evil we know....

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

Well this is the beauty part. I could say so much here. Instead I let you ponder this. Remember only this while reading, A rag tag group of BACKWOODS rednecks, drunks, and criminals defeated the most powerful army of its day with this as one of the guiding documents....

Well I am going to add another post right after

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Never before has an administration reached so far beyond the limits imposed by that document; and your blatant disregard for it and for our country’s social structure not only sickens me; it scares me.

You sound sick and scared and almost as if you are writing from an asylum. Are you?

I believe you are quite mistaken because first and foremost I was quoting an article.

An Open Letter to President Obama and Congress

If you had actually read the entire article you might have seen it was written by another citizen of America, and while I cannot speak to her sanity, or lack thereof, that you would call into question anyone's sanity is about as low as a scumbag would go, in order to discredit someone, and I am glad I am not you.

Please, realize, I am not calling you a scumbag, but that your lack of ethics in countering someone sure puts you in the light of that through tactics that smack of character assassination.

I know character assassination, immediately, having lived through it, for six years, under one manager, but having also seen it, many times over prior to that.

That manager by the way, quit, before she got fired, because of me, an employee.

I will allow for your potentially reading that last post of mine rather quickly, and offer in advance, an apology, if you possibly misread that, giving you the dignity you deserve, but if however, that was your vain attempt at trying to upstage me, via a means of character assassination, I will ask you to apologize.

Or never bother coming onto any of my threads, because I have earned the respect of ATS and the online community, and as such, I have the right not to necessarily question your membership within this website, but definitively, your behavior.

One thing I know full well and sure about ATS is the terms and conditions of this website, and through policy, procedure, and protocol, I am not going to bother the already far too busy Moderator's via lodging a complaint, I will instead tell you.

If you come onto one of my threads, and disrespect me, you will apologize, period.

If you come onto one of my threads, and disrespect anyone else, you will apologize.

If I am on someone else's thread, yours included, and you disrespect me, or any other member, you will apologize, because no member on this website deserves character assassination, period, it is quite fully a violation of terms and conditions.

So, I will leave it to you, either admit to mistakenly reading the quoted article, as mine, when it is clearly indicated as a quote, or apologize for character assassination.

Do I sound like I am writing to you from an insane asylum?

Further more, having been a Security Officer who dealt with psyche patients, and as well in the Psyche Facility which took them as seeing the doctor at the hospital where I was a Security Officer, I never called into question those people's sanity, because that was not my place, I respected them, until disrespect was shown, and then I still followed policy, procedure, and protocol.

Treat people as you wish them to treat you, period, character assassination, partisan party bickering, and "left/right" bitching, will not be tolerated by myself.

Speak to the facts, or your actions speak of you, and your actions are questionable.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

And check out this thread.

My comments there are:

Maybe the dems in congress were just told not to worry about having to be re-elected.

That could explain the support of the congressmen that didn't have to be bribed.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Oh my friend you know you have always struck a raw and exposed nerve when people resort to trying to attack your credibility as a response instead of dealing with the facts.

Americans are frightened and the only insanity involved is a government and it's leaders who are desperate to grow and profit from their power in ways that increasingly involve matters of life and death for the people they are supposed to protect and serve.

Insanity would not be recognizing that and even pundits like Jack Cafferty of CNN are coming out and saying it is insane to keep electing the same democrats and republicans to Congress and the White House based on them just doing the same things that make life in America worse and worse.

People are afraid of the government right now and they are afraid of it because Washington has gone insane with greed and power and cults of personality.

Its that simple.

Well we must first go through those items listed as a form necessary for redress...

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

The whole idea of this nation is freedom. Even your God in his infinite wisdom gave man an ability he denied the angels.. Freedom of choice

It seems your administration is first attempting to buck the laws of your god.

Start looking for the chains and the overseer with his hounds... (your right it may be a female overseer)

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

Watch SCOTUS back down.... I will lay money on it.... This will be more of a prediction on this one, they will strike down the will of the MAJORITY...

The states that pass anti health will be struck down in federal court...

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

Well bush and obama have something in common again... How strange...

If your objecting shame on you. Your a disappointment to your heritage you sunshine patriot.

Expect no sympathy for you. After watching whole groups disenfranchised from bush's election in Florida. Then watching whole districts of BLACK voters turned away by both the Florida legislature and the federal government.

Turn about as fair play???????

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

Well their have been closed doors on the negotiations... They dont want us to know the deals....

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

We will see when the election comes around... The power of the sheeple...

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

we will see Caesar Pelosi in action....

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

Notice the quietness on immigration.. Anything new on the space program??? Did someone mention sheeple population control?

He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

He has bypassed legal methods for getting this passed legally mind you. It makes me wonder why has his administration not gone after those in bush's cabinet for crimes..

This is a bone to some of you... After all they dismissed that one womans claim....

He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

Its legal now sheeple its ok....

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

Can you help me with this. IS he spelling TSAR, t-s-a-r or C-z-a-r?

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.

Well I might have to let them go on this one....Wait does the DOHS qualify?????

He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.

Department of Homeland security, spelled FEMA i think...

He neer abolished it, now did he... GITMO still open right...

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

well that the charge from some quarters... WTO, UN, ect... I let some one else do it

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

Are police able to be qualified. The do have their own buildings funded against what most want... With DOHS included well the shoe fits....

Looks like so far the glove fit so do not acquit!!!!

SKL is correct in his title HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!

I am running out of room must go to a third post...

[edit on 25-3-2010 by ripcontrol]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Agreed.

I am currently watching C.N.N. where a threat upon a Congress member is now an attempt by that person who was threatened, as a point of leverage, to use as a political weapon.

It is just that simple as to why Government has no place within our Healthcare.

They will use it as a weapon, both parties indeed, will try that vain attempt.

First, it will come as an actionable excuse to make the ease of use, for medicine.

Second, it will come as a means for monetary ease, to relieve you of identity theft.

Third, it will come as a means to allow for eliminating memorization of numbers, credit cards, Social Security, Drivers License, bank routing numbers.

You name it and this so called "Healthcare Reform" was a stepping stone.

Take to the gallows via each stone, and hang yourself, the Government tells you.

HIGH QUALITY Hoist The Colours - Full Song untouched Scene


Hoist the Flag : False Flags, Agent Provocateurs, and Black Box Operations

[edit on 25-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by ripcontrol


Dear Mr. Control,

Since my screen name appears atop your reply, your style and improper use of the quote function wrongly infers I made those statements. (and there is no source)

Kindly employ the proper usage of the quote function here or refrain from appearing to misquote me.

I do a fine job of sticking my foot in my own mouth and don't need any assistance in that area.

Much obliged.

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Originally posted by centurion1211
Well, how long did we have to hear the infamous and incorrect "Bush lied" from the left?

Haven't you "inadvertently" omitted part of that phrase?

"When Bush lied, Soldiers died." In response to:When Clinton lied, nobody died?

U.S. deaths to date 4,386. www.icasualties.org...

In case you haven't noticed, President Obama is attempting to SAVE lives.

Or is it simply more innuendo and diversion? And you accuse me of off-topic deflection, laughable.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

Correction:

When Clinton lied (and got impeached for it) it was due in part to his paying more attention to Ms. Lewinsky than what people such as Osama bin Laden were doing out in the world. this lead directly to 9/11 happening, where several thousand Americans died.

And in case you haven't noticed, people are still dying in obama's afghan and iraqi wars. That's right, they rightly belong to obama now since obama has taken control of both and even escalated the afghan war.

And so about the part where I also said that obama bribed? Plenty of examples of that now, hence the call for a special prosecutor.

reply to post by centurion1211


Weak sauce, you are slipping.

BTW,President Obama is on course to make good on his pledge of pulling troops out by July 2010.

First time I have EVER seen someone imply these are Obama's wars. Patently absurd. Oh and your argument that he now "owns" the wars since they are on his watch. Guess who the President was on 09/11/01?

Did the logic club cancel your subscription again?

EDIT TO ADD:

Obama came with a completely different doctrine that thankfully makes prolonging the occupation harder than just making up a new lame excuse. He has promised on the campaign trail to withdraw all combat troops by August 31st of this year bringing the total number of US troops down to less than 50,000. Obama has also announced repeatedly that he will abide by the binding bi-lateral agreement between the two governments that requires all the US troops and contractors to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 without leaving any military bases behind. Both these promises are time-based, and not linked to the conditions on the ground. In addition, President Obama announced last week his intention to call an end to Operation Iraqi Freedom by August 31st, and to start the new non-combat mission as of September 1st this. The new mission, renamed "Operation New Dawn", should end by December 31st 2011 with the last US soldier and contractor out of Iraq.

Source


[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by centurion1211


I'm going to reply to both of you, together.

reply to post by kinda kurious


I'm going to reply to both of you, together.



George W. Bush started the Iraq War and the Afghanistan nonsense, period.

Obama is now, currently, in charge of those wars, Bush did not finish them.

If we want to get technical, Afghanistan has been going since the 1970's.

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f75932d4680a.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

Steve Coll's Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 offers revealing details of the CIA's involvement in the evolution of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the years before the September 11 attacks.

From the beginning, Coll shows how the CIA's on-again, off-again engagement with Afghanistan after the end of the Soviet war left officials at Langley with inadequate resources and intelligence to appreciate the emerging power of the Taliban.

He also demonstrates how Afghanistan became a deadly playing field for international politics where Soviet, Pakistani, and U.S. agents armed and trained a succession of warring factions.

At the same time, the book, though opinionated, is not solely a critique of the agency.

Coll balances accounts of CIA failures with the success stories, like the capture of Mir Amal Kasi.

Coll, managing editor for the Washington Post, covered Afghanistan from 1989 to 1992.

He demonstrates unprecedented access to records of White House meetings and to formerly classified material, and his command of Saudi, Pakistani, and Afghani politics is impressive.

He also provides a seeming insider's perspective on personalities like George Tenet, William Casey, and anti-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke ("who seemed to wield enormous power precisely because hardly anyone knew who he was or what exactly he did for a living").

Coll manages to weave his research into a narrative that sometimes has the feel of a Tom Clancy novel yet never crosses into excess.

While comprehensive, Coll's book may be hard going for those looking for a direct account of the events leading to the 9-11 attacks.

The CIA's 1998 engagement with bin Laden as a target for capture begins a full two-thirds of the way into Ghost Wars, only after a lengthy march through developments during the Carter, Reagan, and early Clinton Presidencies.

But this is not a critique of Coll's efforts; just a warning that some stamina is required to keep up.

Ghost Wars is a complex study of intelligence operations and an invaluable resource for those seeking a nuanced understanding of how a small band of extremists rose to inflict incalculable damage on American soil.

--Patrick O'Kelley

And a lot longer than that but that is besides the point.

But guess what, centurion1211 and kinda kurious, this thread is about Healthcare.

So, if you want to discuss 9/11 or Afghanistan, or idiotic policy of Bush, please go to my other thread, and do not derail this thread, through fighting over semantics.

Truth and Lies of 9/11 : Mike Ruppert, C.I.A. Drug Running, and Your Government

While I do want your continued participation in this discussion you are far off topic.

Thank you both for your consideration and I appreciate your cooperation in advance.

You both bring a lot to the discussions, usually, but this thread is veering off topic.

I posted what I just did to redirect and redirect only to get it back on topic.



Speaking to the Healthcare Reform as this thread was originally began, I am infuriated to see that this current President and Congress would violate the 10th Amendment, in regards to commerce, but I am not speaking towards violence or any other actionable effort, other than legal and non-violent.

And if people want to do that, great, do it as independent citizens,

And if people do not want to do that, great, do not do it, as independent citizens.

But defending a Republican or Democrat stance when we are United States citizens only denies us our country, through a divide and conquer mentality, in that we divide ourselves and allow ourselves to be conquered by the partisan horse puckey.

I know enough to know when a smokescreen is being used via any Administration.

And this Healthcare reform is nothing more than a smokescreen.

No matter who started it, we all suffer because of it, period.

Whether you agree with it or not, if you have not read the entire bill, and I have, you have zero ability to understand the complicated nature of what is hidden behind the scenes within this bill, because the implementation of the R.F.I.D. is hidden there.

reply to post by kinda kurious


I hit the wrong button.... I reread that part it was not intended towards you Ill go fix.. my humble apologies...

@SKL

I must point to my research.

May I make a few statements as I am among friends and thus free to speak my mind?



[edit on 25-3-2010 by ripcontrol]

reply to post by sharklive6


Thank you. Most people I know agree that something had to be done.
I used to be Republican, I'm embarrassed now. It's obvious to me that the Republicans in Congress are in the pocket of the insurance companies and the bankers. Most items in this bill are things I've said numerous times "should be illegal" and look, now it is. I don't agree with the mandated care either, but that could get dropped. The democrats are in office because the people, me included, put them there. I just wish they'd had the ability to get us all single payer and we could introduce the insurance companies to the unemployment line.

Perhap's a candidate like the one in this thread running for Governor Of Colorado, would be more suitable, to the American public's desire for Constitutional Goverment. Jason Clark seem's to know what Coloradoan's want.



www.abovetopsecret.com...