An American calling his Government out!

reply to post by Yissachar1


I think your essentially right in saying the United States of America is going to end up as a stateless entity. The District of Columbia is basically going to evolve into the Unified Republic of Columbia.

I think that all of the high fives and attaboys going on right now after a long hard fought battle is still a bit pre-mature. Despite the fact it has been signed in by Obama today there is still that pesky Supreme Court that will be fast tracking this. It happened quite a bit to FDR. The fate Obama's agenda probably wont be any different.


[edit on 23-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Forgive me I totally suck at quoting quotes.

Originally posted by constantwonder

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by constantwonder

 

Oh there is that right wing talking point again. Fascizm.

Lets define fascism for you from www.dictionary.com

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Yup, giving everyone equal access to healthcare is such an oppressive and racist thing to do.

And how much money do we need to protect borders anyways?

The USA is responsible for 41.5 per cent of the world total, distantly followed by the China (5.8% of world share), France (4.5%), UK (4.5%), and Russia (4%):

globalissues

We could cut our military spending in half, yet still invest twice as much as China.

Are you saying that the Patriot Act is not fascism? Are you saying that healthcare isn't "progressive"?

Is the patriot fascism? possibly. Is healthcare reform progressive? sure. By sticking both in the same sentence are you trying to insinuate they are the same? Possibly. But child labor laws were considered progressive too.

Presidents Bush and Obama have been grabbing up power like crazy.

How is giving people healthcare grabbing power?

You've seen the liberals squash opposition.

Who has been squashed? Healthcare reform has been debated for 14 months now. The right have had plenty of time to come up with a different strategy, instead of just screaming fascism. Their loss.

Sounds fascist to me. Regimenting industry. . . Yeah they are doing that to. Health care, Auto, Education, Banking all becoming nationalized. Aggressive nationalism. . . War on Terror ring a bell?

Again, they have nothing to do with each other. The war on terror has nothign to do with healthcare no matter how many times you stick them together in the same sentence. How very Glen Beckian of you.
So the right creates the War on Terror to use as a weapon every way they can. If Obama cuts the defense budget, he is making us weak and vulnerable. If he passes healthcare, he is a fascist and making us like the terrorists. This war on terror thing is very conveinant.

We should defend our borders. We shouldn't be forced however to reinvest that money into anything other than things of our choosing.

Americans voted in Obama on the healthcare platform. There are are a lot of Dems in the Congress, I think the people chose, no matter how much the right tries to ignore that fact.

And as far as defending the borders go we can't even do that without people calling out the rascist issues.

Your referring to the southern wall? Do we need trillions in military spending for one wall? And that has and is a whole nother thread.

The basic idea is government big smart, people small stupid.

huh?

I don't need a shepard. I don't need to be lead by the hand. I don't need to be saved from myself. It's not my job to save you from yourself. Why can't people see that?

ok.

But I bet you instinctively call 911 if your house is on fire.

If your so into this idea of healthcare perhaps you could pay for mine. . . By the way I'm a smoke heavy asthmatic. I have a history of heart problems and cancer in my family. Hope you don't mind

No I don't. You shouldn't live that long anyways. And then you won't collect social security.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes you are right we are screwed AGAIN.... This is really getting out of hand...

All those people who were saying the government wasn't oging to take over healthcare, and people were not going to be punished are GOING TO LEARN THE HARD WAY THAT THEY WERE WRONG AGAIN...

The IRS, from no other government agency is going to enforce healthcare reform, and whoever individuals, and employers don't comply WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE TAXES.... If that isn't a fine for not having heatlthcare, that the government REQUIRES for individuals and employers, I don't know what is.....

reply to post by disfugured


I think you raise a good question but I disagree with your conclusion that you draw from an unanswered question. I am not personally anticipating a direct income tax increase. I frankly don't earn enough money to be in anyone's crosshairs income wise. I doubt that I will have to pay a tax for the insurance I have through my employment because it is not a "cadillac" health plan.

The unknown question is whether my premiums will go up. I assume they will because they go up just about every year anyway. I won't blame a premium increase on the new law.

My fear and dislike of this bill is not based upon concern for my billfold, My concern is philosophical. I do not want my government getting involved in my healthcare or my insurance. I do not want my government to continue to expand its reach and control into the lives of private citizens.

reply to post by MikeboydUS



It already has. The District of Criminals is a registered Corporation with D&B (look it up) and one of its many trade names is "THE UNITED STATES" The government is a fraud it is nothing but a corporate fiction posing as government. That is why they don't care if Obama has a birth certificate. He is not president of the republic he is CEO of the corporation. All these so called laws are not law they are corporate policy. They have tricked everyone into contracting with the corporation by posing as legitimate government and into believing they are required to obey theses corporate statutes but they do not apply.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Sure, that`s all well and good if prices stayed down. What little we do get to keep, goes for price hikes, so, where is that little savings now? You`ve just spent that saved tax money on higher prices, and IF there is any left, who on this green Earth can afford to have it taken away?

reply to post by Intelearthling


Oh shut up! As much as I get tired of listening to the troops and their mumb jumbo patriotism I get just as sick and tired listening to foreigners epsecially europeans lambast Americans. There are fat and lazy europeans and foreigners as well. Europeans are very lazy. I don't get two months off of vacation every year. Your unemployment has been historically higher than the US for decades. And let's not even talk about all the damn sweatshops and human rights violations all over the world especially in China and other crappy asian countries. There are McDonald's and fast food chains all over the world now. European nations have a HUGE problem with drugs, STDs, and teenage pregnancies. Not to mention America hardly sets the bar for political corruption..............many nations including EU ones are more corrupt than America. So get off your damn high horse. The American people are still very hardworking and good people. You shouldn't judge all Americans by what you see on t.v.

Well another good thread Slayer! Seems to have brought out the usual and unusual suspects! If one more time I hear about the "illegal war" BS I'm gonna The biggest problem with us going to war was mismanagement of production. Here is a example of government planning!

www.nypost.com...

If we were producing something mayhaps the economy might be in better shape. It worked in WWII

As for this joke of a bill if it soo great why do we the people have something different from our elected officials? Congress and the potus could have put themselves on the coverage to show us ignorant rabble how great it will be As if This health care bill was Obamas unicorn to chase, despite having been elected to serve the people he chose to go with what he wanted to do, damn any opposition! This event IS going to snowball. The problem is that once that powderkeg is lit the rest of the world will follow. The country needed jobs to pay for the f^@#( thing first. Nope health care first. That is arrogance from a guy who never worked a honest job in his life!

reply to post by nixie_nox


Just because I'm reffering to The War on Terror, and Healthcare in the same sentence doesn't mean I'm attributing anything about one to the other. Except for the fact that they both far overstep their bounds. Where did my freedom to choose on either subject go?

I did not get a choice. I will be forced now to carry health care. Insurance I don't really need now. Which is rediculous. I'm not actually an asthmatic smoker and such. But should i choose not to carry healthcare I will have to pay a fine. A fine which should be spent to sure up the program but undoubtedly will not be.

I said we should defend our borders. I did not say we should spend trillions elsewhere. I said that what we save not policing the globe should be invested in areas chosen by the people.

We've lost our choices. You can spin it anyway you want call it Glen Beckish all you like. The fact remains that a noose is tightening around your right to make a choice. I hope you do not choose to continue believing otherwise.

double post >.<


[edit on 23-3-2010 by constantwonder]

Originally posted by truthquest

Originally posted by LadySkadi

If only, they did this in the interest of the people.

If only.

Its never in the interest of the people to have charity programs run at gun point. If all these people clamoring for universal health care spent even ten minutes a day working for it to be done on a voluntary basis, it would have happened a long time ago. What the left wants is for OTHER PEOPLE in political positons to force OTHER PEOPLE who aren't a part of their goals to be forced into a position of slavery and/or theft to support something they really can't (due to poverty) or don't want to support. I find the way people think its a right to enslave others into something they don't believe in using income taxes to be sickening.

Funny, that is exactly how health insurance started.

In 1929, the first modern group health insurance plan was formed. A group of teachers in Dallas, Texas, contracted with Baylor Hospital for room, board, and medical services in exchange for a monthly fee. Several large life insurance companies entered the health insurance field in the 1930’s and 1940’s as the popularity of health insurance increased. In 1932 nonprofit organizations called Blue Cross or Blue Shield first offered group health plans. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plans were successful because they involved discounted contracts negotiated with doctors and hospitals. In return for promises of increased volume and prompt payment, providers gave discounts to the Blue Cross and Shield plans.

link

But in your world, it is perfectly ok for a profit corporation to decide someone's life, which is like holding them at gunpoint.

Originally posted by nixie_nox

In 1929, the first modern group health insurance plan was formed. A group of teachers in Dallas, Texas, contracted with Baylor Hospital for room, board, and medical services in exchange for a monthly fee. Several large life insurance companies entered the health insurance field in the 1930’s and 1940’s as the popularity of health insurance increased. In 1932 nonprofit organizations called Blue Cross or Blue Shield first offered group health plans. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plans were successful because they involved discounted contracts negotiated with doctors and hospitals. In return for promises of increased volume and prompt payment, providers gave discounts to the Blue Cross and Shield plans.

link

Wow, I was born at that hospital. Albeit it wasn't 1929. I didn't realize that it had historical ties to the first health insurance. Admittedly, I never went searching for the origin though. Woohoo, go Baylor Hospital

Sigh.....

What many people don't realize is that most Americans WANT healthcare reform, WANT to help those who can't afford it get it, WANT to be able to get rid of "pre-existing conditions", etc. We are not monsters. What has happened here is that "our" government didn't do it the right way.

The insurance companies don't care if you have cancer, or if your child has autism, or even if you have a broken arm. All they care about is their bottom line, and what the execs can get for their next bonus. They've made it so difficult to get quality care. The premiums are high, the co-pays are high, they refuse procedures that can nip diseases in the bud. I have a friend who has ovarian cancer. Her insurance refused any of the tests she could have taken to catch it when it could be treated. She has a history of it in her family. She knew what the signs were - BUT, no. And now she is dying.

Will this healthcare bill make that any betterf? Of course not! Sure, more people will have health insurance, but will the insurance companies approve life-saving procedures? No. They have no reason to change. Just more money in their coffers. And don't even get me started on Big Pharma....

Meanwhile, we will squeezed dry with taxes. In a time where jobs are in short supply (and made more so, now), people are losing their homes, and cost of goods are going through the roof.

The other problem with this bill: it is loaded with additions that have nothing to do with healthcare. Bribes of money for this, that and the other - ridiculous things that have no business being paid for by the people. It makes me want to scream!

Yes, the idea of Healthcare Reform is a good one, and real reform is necessary. But passing this the way they did - with bribes, with special interests, under wraps and unconstitutional? That's why we screamed. And they didn't listen.

You want the real truth?

I’ve heard George speak openly, frankly and sincerely about many subjects. He always stated that he felt betrayed by three things…religion, government and his OWN SPECIES !!!

I don’t think I can say it any better than this guy !!!! (what an incredible mind he had)

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

In the next clip take note at 5:10 till the end when the young man asks about “hope” His insights into “no hope” and his so-called cynicism are brilliant not to mention that he sees mans only hope for survival as coming from aliens

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Lolliek


Very good post Lolliek. Star from me.



[edit on 23-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

hey guys! Just got off a speakerphone call with barrack, GWB, pelosi, cheney, rove and the rest of the gang, and they wanted me to pass on a message to the rest of you: "BEND OVER, CAUSE DADDY'S HOME!!!" And then they cheers'd champagne and coc aine with all their big pharma, corporate and banker/wall street buddies and said they have to go, because they have been on a 3 day orgy on your "dollar" (if you can even call that worthless shred of embarrassment that), and they gotta keep this party goin till the Veri-chip guys get there and they can get back to business as usual. Oh, and they all laughed in unison and said they were: "Gonna party like its 1913!" and then hung up the phone on me. Those crazy Republicrat/Democricans, they sure know how to have a good time..

* oh yea, I almost forgot, they mentioned something about how they like a good display of power/ fireworks show, and if we get too nasty, they have a #load of pyrotechnic 9/11 style shows planned (just for their own personal amusement) to worship Ba'al.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

reply to post by seasoul


Good videos , thanks for posting !

2nd___________

No I don't. You shouldn't live that long anyways. And then you won't collect social security.

How humanitarian of you. When they add on to this to make it universal you will have no choice but to pony up. As it stands you have no choice anyway.

The same people that argue that it's not so bad don't really want to help anyone. You have just proven the hipocracy of your entire side of the argument.

You shouldn't live that long anyways

This is funny. You want everyone to be covered yet by this statement you want to pick and choose who to help. . . . Which is EXACTLY what the government will do when the morons realize they cannot pay for every one all the time.

You and the federal government you think has done such a great job can keep you unwanted "reform".



[edit on 23-3-2010 by constantwonder]