What are thoughts? What creates self-awareness, what is it? What's the threshold of sentience?

No ONE is listening.

The source of the I-thought can be inferred to be eternal.

I-I-I -- the source? pure consciousness as complementary opposites.

Listening internally resonates as ultrasound which ionizes into electromagnetic fields creating light that bends spacetime -- this process is eternal and self-organizes as reality. A holograph never ending and never beginning -- no one is listening -- but the process of listening is consciousness.

reply to post by imans


Okay. I think I understood. So me having a poo is an indirect fact of me eating food?

Forgive me the poor analogy, but isn't that it? So thinking - as for going back to the topic - is indirect fact, as it is result of being able to observe, remember and so on? Maybe there is different with conceptual thinking and contemplation, understanding?

-v

reply to post by drew hempel


exactly, awareness is always about impressions and impressions are always meaning objective realisations that you are free of doing, this is existence truth because truth as the source is really pure objective certainty source life

the only way to relate self awareness as one is from being true, the aware relating facts of self positive realities to source of positive objective, and try to move as aware positive from parallel to himself condition life

reply to post by v01i0


sorry but i dont agree with the image of eating effects you gave, it is not logical that you poo because you eat
so we poo because we are forced to lies life and we are constantly forced to know that what we got worth our humiliation in negative self existence hell

it is normal to eat because we didnt exist first and we have rights of being supported from truth to justify our awareness freedom being true
so we have to be fed at some points which concern truth and not us, when us is not the self nor the awareness state but the awareness move as itself source positive life

reply to post by v01i0


Yes -- in fact if you activate pure consciousness -- this goes beyond your left-brain dominant language awareness as the prefrontal cortex -- smell is the only sensation that directly bypasses the cortex to go to the cerebrum. So you activate your VAGUS NERVE to your lower body and this recycles the lower body serotonin bliss and anaerobic POO bacteria -- just as humanure fertilizes the land so that new growth occurs. Only now you are regrowing the neurons in your brain -- via the endothelial cells which bypass the blood brain barrier, from the vagus nerve ionized by LISTENING INTERNALLY -- and then this bacteria and serotonin is further ionized into electromagnetic energy via the piezoelectric transduction of the pineal gland.

Presto -- from light is pure consciousness as the bending of spacetime -- just as in deep sleep -- only now you experience consciousness directly.

reply to post by imans


It is allright to disagree.

However, I cannot dismiss the observation that whenever I eat, sooner or later, the poo occurs. If I don't eat, there is simply nothing to extract and I don't have the need to poo.

Perhaps - although I highly suspect - we live in distinct realities, which we understand in totally different way. I speak of my own observations, which may be different of yours. That is all right.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


If you understand how to "make" consciousness you are resonating with the source of reality -- Chunyi Lin went 49 days WITHOUT FOOD, SLEEP AND WATER.

I went 8 days on half glass of water.

This is called "bigu" and is well-documented to provide all the nutrition you need -- Rustom Roy -- the chemistry professor -- held a conference on it.

So poo is great as a dirty source of energy -- but it's not necessary.

reply to post by drew hempel


Hmm, while I didn't quite grasp your meaning in a way I could say I concur with that what you've said, I tend to think that there is some kind of superconsciousness which combines both subconsciousness and the normal consciousness - which you may refer as a left and right side of brain.

Sometimes words are so confusing as they are but symbols of reality, not exactly the reality itself. Words creates so much confusion, when reality is same for everyone. Or at least it should be.

But considering that we are human beings, and this is a messaging board, we are limited in words and words only (well, we might post videos, music and so on, but it doesn't help much); hence it might be difficult to express one's ideas properly.

In my first post to this thread, I was about to mention dreams and sleep, but then I forgot it. But I have noticed that in dreams, things just happen to me and I rarely - if ever - employ thought. Few times I've had a conscious dream where thoughts have occured, but that is rare.

-v

This is a question that sometimes troubles me. It's bothered a lot of people over the centuries...

Last year, there was evidence that crows (corvids) are sentient...Clever rooks repeat ancient fable

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/659b5f80380b.jpg[/atsimg]Interesting details...

A container was part-filled with water and a worm floating on the surface. The water level was too low for the crow to reach. The researchers provided some small stones. This is where it becomes interesting....the crows looked at the water level and then the stones. They dropped enough stones in the water to raise the water and reach the worm...



Primates have been recorded using a short stick to bring a long stick closer. With the long stick, they can then reach the food researchers have left. In the wild, chimps have recently been seen to use several tools to exploit honey resources.

Chimpanzees also forage for honey. The use of tools to dig for, bash into, and dip honey out of bee nests or hives has long been known from many chimpanzee field sites. For example, Craig Stanford and colleagues (2000) described how chimpanzees in Bwindi-Impenetrable National Park, Uganda, use small sticks to forage for honey from the small nests of stingless bees, while they use much bigger sticks to get honey out of honeybee nests.

High-tech honey extraction, chimpanzee-style



Our clever crows have shown the same aptitude and illustrate how sentience comes in many different forms...

Researchers offered the crows a tasty morsel of meat that was out of reach in a box. To reach the food the birds had to use a long stick. But this stick was inaccessible in another box. To reach the long stick, the birds had to prise it out with a smaller stick which they could reach. "It was surprising to find that these creatures performed at the same levels as the best performances by great apes on such a difficult problem," said Russell Gray, of the University of Auckland, New Zealand. "Six out of seven birds tried to get the long stick with the short stick at their first attempt at solving the problem."

Crows match great apes in skilful tool use

I use these examples to highlight the difficulties of defining sentience and the borderlines of sentience. Rodents, pigs, octupuses (octupii?), dogs and elephants are other critters that have shown signs of self-awareness. Dolphins and whales too.

In psychology, sentience is tested using mirrors. If a creature can recognise itself in abstract terms (reflection), we consider it as sentient. Crows and chimps have removed adhesive tags from their backs after seeing them in the mirror. It's interesting! As I said, it's also troubling.

In the future, I expect our parameters of what constitutes 'sentience' will broaden. The results might create an uncomfortable connection with what we view as food, pets and wildlife.

EDIT to add another thread...Chimps, Tools and Honey and a video that is profound imo...




[edit on 21-3-2010 by Kandinsky]

reply to post by v01i0


if you stop eating your body would still extract dirty substance of itself existence, noone extract perfume from fasting 50 days or more, you cant dissociate poo with all negative extractions from body condition meaning same source then or directly related to same source life

thanks for accepting a different prespective to be true too

reply to post by v01i0


Good point but when I employ thoughts in my dreams -- I wake myself up!!

For example -- if you practice self-equiry - called "vichara" in India -- again you repeat I-I-I not as a mantra but as logical inference to the source of all thoughts -- then in your dreams you find yourself asking "who am I?" while dreaming -- and this will either wake you up or you become lucid.

Then if you have a dream that predicts the future -- I had one that happened in detail three years later -- long after I had forgotten the dream -- but I had written the dream down when it occurred and in my journal recorded that I thought it was predicting the future -- then

you realize that being awake is also a type of dream! I call this "glitches in the matrix" -- because it's more than deja vu -- I mean if you've already dreamed your waking state then obviously the 2nd time around you are a bit better prepared emotionally - but the question is

who are "you" if you can predict your future three years in advance -- detailed -- I dreamt of my activist friends on the roof of a house standing with Native American activists, all holding a banner, to protect a wooded forest. I wrote that I thought my dream was predicting the future -- obviously there's no way that's a coincidence if I -- three years later -- am looking at a newspaper photo as a photocopy and I get this strange sense of

deja vu and then drive to my parents and begin rereading my old journal from three years previously..... and so precognitive dreams have happened numerous times to me -- probably a dozen times.

There's a great book called "Transcendent Dreaming" on this subject....

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 21-3-2010 by drew hempel]

Being self-aware is recognizing your own consciousness. When you realize that your consciousness is not a byproduct of the physical body but a partner. It is the realization your consciousness responds to the physical body. The concept of “me” is that pure mind that constantly responds to the conscious experience created by the brain.

The distinction between the experience and that which experiences is what allows one to be self-aware and have freewill.

I can be conscious without being self-aware. For example when you watch a movie; temporally you are not self-aware because you are absorbed in the movie. In a way you “forget” about yourself momentarily but you are certainly still conscious.

reply to post by Jezus


Right -- the Mahayana Buddhists have a very sophisticated psychology of consciousness -- there's 8 levels of consciousness.

So the first 5 are the consciousness of the body -- when you're in a trance of self-forgetting like during art or right-brain dominance then that's a type of body consciousness.

Then there's the 7th level of consciousness which is the ego -- this is largely subconscious as well -- it's the connection between the body and the mind connected through the right brain.

The 6th level of consciousness is left-brain dominance -- it's the ego as "conceptual consciousness" -- so when we talk we are dealing with concepts. But if we listen to the source of our thoughts -- then the left-brain conceptual consciousness will resonate into the right brain.

Then there's the 8th level of consciousness which is the universe -- and only is made aware when we open up and transcend the first 5 levels of the body -- using the 7th level of consciousness -- the ego.

So these levels are interact as the "rainbow body of light" -- immortality as infinite consciousness -- the eternal process of spacetime creating light energy which turns into mass that we experience as the three dimensional holograph of matter.

reply to post by imans


Well I gladly respect views of others, after all, I don't know a thing - I just try to observe.

This fasting thing has always puzzled me to some extent because when I've stopped eating even for a day, I begin to tremble and feeling very weak. But when I've attempted it, the extraction of poo has significally decreased - so maybe I've been sweating away all the dirt. Who knows? One has to rely to one's experiences.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


Through ultrasound we ionize the water in our body to create electromagnetic fields which then can reverse ionize the atmosphere to create water again - it's a circuit of free energy.

www.vivendodaluz.com...

So when I went 8 days on half glass of water -- I actually created water through the middle of my brain -- through electrolysis. The electromagnetic fields were stored in my lower tan tien -- the energy field below and behind the stomach.

I had telepathy, telekinesis, precognition and strong healing powers and I saw dead spirits.



[edit on 21-3-2010 by drew hempel]

reply to post by Jezus


self is being positive in reality living
aware is not doing anything while there existing fact

self aware is when the positive reality stimulate the existing there enough to move as a source of living reality or self defense of course

reply to post by drew hempel


reply to post by drew hempel


Your experiences sounds almost incredible. I remember that you mentioned about them in another thread.

Have had few of those dreams one could call lucid dreams. And few precognitive also. But usually my experience is similar to yours, when the thought was employed, a pretty quick wake up call has occured.

But forgive me, it is already late, so I go see dreams and to examine where the sleep begins and conscious ceases

-v

For example we can not smell ourselves except when it's a new smell -- smell is proven to be quantum -- phonons -- of our cerebrums -- so there is a resonance that balances out new smells to integrate them into the cerebrum. This is done on the theta slow dream wave of the brain - which means we can smell ourselves on the first breath between sleeping and waking -- coming out of theta -- but then our brain goes to be frontal dominant as the beta wave -- a faster wave.

Originally posted by v01i0
I don't know about you, but my experiences are that I am watching my actions. Now I am typing, and I am aware of that. Soon I'll be posting and I am aware of that as well. Care to explain what you mean or above can be dismissed as irrelevant?

-v

You are entitled to dismiss it as irrelevant because it doesn't match intuitive preconceptions. That is fine. Some just aren't ready for that.

It is difficult to explain, there is no doubt about that, yet ultimately rather simple to understand (more on that below).

There is noone watching, "you" are this "watching". This sense that there is someone watching actions (and thus qualia the correspond) is a mental process, at least partly neurological, no doubt. If you manage to disrupt that process, the sense of someone watching these things from a personal, interior viewpoint is lost and instead of "I am experiencing X", there simply "you" and "X" being the same thing. So, for example, it's not you seeing "red" but rather "you" and "red" are intimately one and the same thing. There is no regress at all, noone watching an internal theater of colors, sounds, feelings, shapes, tastes, etc. The "hard problem" is not that hard and is in some ways easier than the easy one (which involves a great deal of complexity), while being somewhat fundamentally incompatible with our current mental constitutions.

I'll tell you this, what I am conveying is not "it". It is leftover impressions. Analagously, I am trying to descibe the color "flurrm" which has no red, green or blue components. I myself, in my present state of mind, while responding to my post, do not really get it outside of the experience itself. You won't think or reason yourself into it. When you're aware in that way, you'll see the problem almost as if it's child's play. Some of it, we're just not ready or even physically equipped to have it be part of daily life, any more than my cat is physically equipped to be fluent in Mandarin. Being "there", fully, at all times is actually counteradaptive to navigating this reality hence the why of becoming still.

Edit:
The comparison to the cat's mastery of Mandarin may be sort of poor, in that human organisms may be over-equipped to perceive things as individual and selfishly aware, thus the need to disable certain functions to regain awarness. It's a wonderful trick in which one can deeply involve themselves.

[edit on 3/21/2010 by EnlightenUp]

Mind Control by Parasites

www.livescience.com...

Parasitic Mind Control


Lower organisms are obviously self aware, how else do you explain the fact that they can take over the minds of insects or animals that are vastly more intelligent than themselves.

I also wouldn't call parasites postive considering their only goal in life is to procreate and at the same same time infect and kill everything in their path while causing nothing but pain and suffering.

Can parasites influence the language we speak
www.newscientist.com...

Parasites in the Brain
www.psychologytoday.com...



[edit on 21-3-2010 by kindred]